Social Web Working Group Teleconference

11 Apr 2017

Attendees

Present: tantek, aaronpk, rhiaro, cwebber, ben_thatmustbeme, sandro, csarven, eprodrom
Regrets Chair: tantek
Scribe: eprodrom, cwebber

eprodrom: geospatial stuff, we've all kind of gone with covering the top level of an object and then expect extensions to ...
... first is around extensions around geojson one, second is around attribution/licensing
... for second, Creative Commons already has a vocab, maybe show an example of using those
... my feeling is these are outside of the scope of AS2... if not outside of scope, good fit for extension

<eprodrom> cwebber: +1 eprodrom. GeoJSON is a great example for an extension, ccREL has already done a lot of work handling licensing.

<eprodrom> cwebber: if we've gone to the trouble of including extensions, these are good examples of using extensions.

<scribe> scribenick: cwebber

<csarven> Yea, good candidates for extensions. Not core.

tantek: ok, is there a place where we can have people look at a list of extensions we can encourage for reuse?

eprodrom: I don't think we have a single place like that, could be a good wiki page. Now that I've said it, I wonder if that's a link we should include in the document

rhiaro: is this the domain of the community group? we said extensions were part of CG's work
... as incubation

eprodrom: I think so

tantek: I think that's another good answer we can add to the issue
... encourage incubation of extensions to the CG
... sounds like we have some good responses, one of which is "great suggestion, would be great as an extension", second is to create a place perhaps on wiki where we can informally have a list of extensions or things underway
... and lastly to encourage list of folks to join the CG and incubate their extensions there
... outside of the GH issues for this spec

rhiaro: I'd say that we don't need to maintain a list of ongoing extensions, because that would go stale, and just say "the CG will provide it"

eprodrom: what I wanted to ask is should we include that in the text of the document? maybe in the vocab document, say we have a community group that maintains extensions?

sandro: you're certainly not imagining

tantek: I remember you filing an issue

<eprodrom> "Some popular extensions are included in the Activity Streams 2.0 namespace document, and can be reviewed at https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#extensions."

sandro: looking at spec, see geojson used as an example extension

<sandro> Some popular extensions are included in the Activity Streams 2.0 namespace document, and can be reviewed at https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#extensions.

eprodrom: if it's ok for our document process, I would love to add a sentence underneath there along the lines of "extensions for AS2 are done in CG" with a link

<rhiaro> +1 what evan said

eprodrom: could be a good way to provide that continuity

<rhiaro> hopefully if the CG changes its name it leaves a forwarding address

sandro: one problem is if we change name of CG maybe link becomes stale...

<sandro> https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#extensions

sandro: currently it doesn't link to the CG
... it says the same space may be used by extensions... [whole quote happens here]

tantek: that seems like a reasonable small edit, to link to the specific CG since we have it
... seems reasonable based on previouss decisions

sandro: in spec or in ?

tantek: in the spec

sandro: it's in the namespace doc right now, not the spec

<sandro> Some popular extensions are included in the Activity Streams 2.0 namespace document, and can be reviewed at https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#extensions.

sandro: but we can change the namespace doc whenever
... here's the line in the line: ^^^

tantek: ok, seems like a reasonable proposal, we can leave it to the CG
... and if the CG terminates, we can say here's where to go from here
... so you're proposing a small edit to the NS document and small edit to the spec itself in the same place that refers to extensions and the CG?

sandro: yes

eprodrom: does that set us back another 2 months

sandro: nope

tantek: is that something we can do and still hit our PR on thurs?

sandro: not sure if it will go in there, maybe if rhiaro has staged a version, but probably

<rhiaro> yeah I haven't staged anything yet

sandro: another possible thing to do would be at the top of the document, with github link and etc, have a link to extensions that pointed to ns document on extensions

tantek: I'm going to suggest not doing that, and here's why

uhoh I disconnected

someone scribe

<eprodrom> scribenick: eprodrom

tantek: sometimes people propose extensions without reading the spec

<cwebber> scribenick: cwebber

<tantek> PROPOSED: Resolve AS2 issues 413 414 with sounds like good extensions, but not core spec. Suggest joining SWICG. Edit ns document to link to SWICG. Similar small "Note:" in AS2 in the same place it refers to extensions and the ns doc.

<rhiaro> +1

<aaronpk> +1

cwebber: +1

<eprodrom> +1

<sandro> +1

RESOLUTION: Resolve AS2 issues 413 414 with sounds like good extensions, but not core spec. Suggest joining SWICG. Edit ns document to link to SWICG. Similar small "Note:" in AS2 in the same place it refers to extensions and the ns doc.

<ben_thatmustbeme> +1

tantek: ok so we have only a couple editorial changes to as2, not sure if it will block PR or not but
... what are we waiting for PR on?

sandro: amy submitted transition request on friday so we're waiting for ralph, expecting them to make the decision tomorrow? so we may transition on thursday

tantek: I think that's all for as2
... let's move on to LDN

<eprodrom> scribenick: eprodrom

LDN

rhiaro: we are getting reviews, no formal objections, some implementations

Micropub

tantek: Ralph filed a security issue

<aaronpk> https://github.com/w3c/Micropub/issues/89

tantek: aaronpk provided text

<tantek> PROPOSED Resolution of issue 89: https://github.com/w3c/Micropub/issues/89#issuecomment-292315067

<ben_thatmustbeme> +1

Addition of https://micropub.net/draft/#external-content

<tantek> 6.1 https://micropub.net/draft/#external-content

<rhiaro> +1

+1

<sandro> +1

<tantek> ack

<aaronpk> +1 but i think that was implied because i wrote the text ;-)

<cwebber> I'm still here

eprodrom: is there a document that we could refer to for security issues in sharing URLs?

tantek: none comes to mind

<cwebber> give me one more minute

<cwebber> sorry, brain kicking in

<cwebber> it seems fine to me

WebSub CR

<rhiaro> https://www.w3.org/TR/websub

<Loqi> [Julien Genestoux] WebSub

sandro: it's out this morning

<ben_thatmustbeme> yay!

<aaronpk> 🎉

tantek: congrats to aaronpk and jullien

<Loqi> 😄

sandro: can you link the tweet

RESOLUTION: Resolution of issue 89: https://github.com/w3c/Micropub/issues/89#issuecomment-292315067

<sandro> https://twitter.com/sandhawke/status/851799399172800514

<Loqi> [@sandhawke] WebSub, the http Pub/Sub protocol formerly known as PubSubHubbub (PuSH) finally makes it to @W3C Candidate Rec! https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/

tantek: aaronpk has to stage new pr draft, ralph has to review the edit for micropub

<scribe> scribenick: eprodrom

activitypub

tantek: how are we doing?

cwebber: changes to the spec are imminent

<cwebber> http://w3c.github.io/activitypub/#changes-17-nov-11-apr

cwebber: we had an extra # char at the end of the profile, inconsistent with AS2
... OK since AS2 is authoritative
... issues filed since last night

<cwebber> https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/180

<cwebber> https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/182

cwebber: did not document side effects for the ignore verb; would be normative
... document Ignore as a MAY

eprodrom: Mute and Block are important functions

cwebber: could we include it as a MAY?

<rhiaro> It might be something that implementations decide to do anyway

<rhiaro> hopefully in a consistent way

tantek: that would be more conservative, include as an extension

cwebber: the commenter understands they're minor and last-minute
... https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/180 is more difficult

<cwebber> https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#icon

cwebber: we have some leftovers from pump.io
... icon is either a link or an URL
... what to do?
... we have suggested change text
... we could drop properties that are in AS2

tantek: it looks like sandro is in favor of dropping dupes
... my understanding is that's not a functional change

rhiaro: I think it's fine

cwebber: this will shorten the doc anyway
... "name" is called out as nickname or full name

<tantek> that seems fine to me

cwebber: I don't see any properties that are restricted or more explicit
... should I keep the name one?

<cwebber> https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#actors

<rhiaro> It would be kind of conspicuously absent if it wasn't there

cwebber: should we keep the one "name" property definition?

<rhiaro> +1 simply listing AS2 ones that are expected

<rhiaro> expected/recommended

cwebber: no other properties have been changed in AP
... with those edits done we should not have any normative changes

<tantek> Keeping this text then? "Implementations SHOULD, in addition, provide the following properties:" ?

tantek: any other comments

<tantek> in here: http://w3c.github.io/activitypub/#changes-17-nov-11-apr

cwebber: we reviewed with Ralph in email, he said it was OK

<tantek> PROPOSED: Resolve AP issues 180 182 per consensus as discussed above.

+1

<cwebber> +1

<aaronpk> +1

<ben_thatmustbeme> +1

<rhiaro> +1

RESOLUTION: Resolve AP issues 180 182 per consensus as discussed above.

<tantek> PROPOSED: Publish updated AP CR draft with editorial fixes http://w3c.github.io/activitypub/#changes-17-nov-11-apr

<rhiaro> +1

<cwebber> +1

<aaronpk> +1

<ben_thatmustbeme> +1

RESOLUTION: Publish updated AP CR draft with editorial fixes http://w3c.github.io/activitypub/#changes-17-nov-11-apr

<rhiaro> yeah needs publishing by hand, but no director approval, will take care of it

<sandro> +1

RESOLUTION: Publish updated AP CR draft with editorial fixes http://w3c.github.io/activitypub/#changes-17-nov-11-apr

tantek: any other updates on AP

cwebber: we have an implementation report template
... working on the test suite
... at worst 2 weeks
... may end up an interactive text adventure
... testing client-to-server (both sides), server-to-server
... might be really hard

<rhiaro> Same for LDN.. we just did a web form that people fill in after running their client, cwebber

cwebber: implementations have been moving along
... mastodon has a couple of commits that AP will be coming
... AP might be a good next step because it has a test suite

aaronpk: i released the report before the test suite, so any reports had to be reverified
... which was a hassle. So finish the test suite before getting implementation reports.
... take a look at micropub.rocks

cwebber: strugee said they are hoping to get AP implementation in pump.io this month

tantek: before we close, apologies that we are over
... next telcon date 4/25

<cwebber> strugee, \o/

<tantek> PROPOSED: Next telcon 2017-04-25

tantek: any objections?

<cwebber> +1

<ben_thatmustbeme> +1

<aaronpk> +1

<rhiaro> +1

+1

<sandro> +1

RESOLUTION: Next telcon 2017-04-25

tantek: hopefully we'll have more PRs then

<cwebber> thanks!

tantek++

<Loqi> tantek has 50 karma in this channel (329 overall)

cwebber, so, what I was going to ask is, once we get test suite and implementation report template up

scribe: we make a page on the wiki linking to issues for each fedsocweb app asking for implementation

<cwebber> eprodrom: ah yeah

Diaspora, Elgg, GNU Social, Mastodon, pump.io, rstatus, GNU MediaGoblin, Owncloud maybe?

<ben_thatmustbeme> sandro, go for it!

<cwebber> eprodrom: yes sounds good

<tantek> trackbot, end meeting

Friendica or whatever it's called now

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

approve minutes of https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-03-28-minutes and https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-04-04-minutes
Resolve AS2 issues 413 414 with sounds like good extensions, but not core spec. Suggest joining SWICG. Edit ns document to link to SWICG. Similar small "Note:" in AS2 in the same place it refers to extensions and the ns doc.
Resolution of issue 89: https://github.com/w3c/Micropub/issues/89#issuecomment-292315067
Resolve AP issues 180 182 per consensus as discussed above.
Publish updated AP CR draft with editorial fixes http://w3c.github.io/activitypub/#changes-17-nov-11-apr
Publish updated AP CR draft with editorial fixes http://w3c.github.io/activitypub/#changes-17-nov-11-apr
Next telcon 2017-04-25

Socialwg/2017-04-11-minutes

Social Web Working Group Teleconference

11 Apr 2017

Attendees

Contents

approval of minutes

update on PRs

LDN

Micropub

WebSub CR

activitypub

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions