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15:52:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-irc ←
15:52:56 <Ralph> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
15:53:10 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Feb/0178.html
15:53:44 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-rdfa-minutes.html previous non-meeting
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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ralph: -> http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-rdfa-minutes.html previous non-meeting ←
15:53:56 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-01-22
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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ralph: -> http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2009-01-22 ←
15:54:01 <Ralph> s/2008/2009
15:54:17 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make record public
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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please make record public ←
15:54:22 <Ralph> zakim, this will be rdfa
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Unknown Ralph: zakim, this will be rdfa ←
15:54:22 <Zakim> ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes ←
15:59:23 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started ←
15:59:31 <Zakim> +??P31
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31 ←
15:59:37 <msporny> Zakim, I am ??P31
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Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown msporny: Zakim, I am ??P31 ←
15:59:37 <Zakim> +msporny; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +msporny; got it ←
15:59:45 <msporny> Morning, Ralph :)
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Unknown msporny: Morning, Ralph :) ←
16:01:33 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
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Unknown msporny: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:01:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-minutes.html msporny ←
16:02:02 <msporny> rrsagent, make log public
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Unknown msporny: rrsagent, make log public ←
16:02:29 <msporny> yipes...
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Unknown msporny: yipes... ←
16:02:34 <Zakim> +??P49
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P49 ←
16:02:46 <ShaneM> zakim, ??P49 is ShaneM
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Unknown ShaneM: zakim, ??P49 is ShaneM ←
16:02:46 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←
16:02:55 <msporny> Scribe: Manu_Sporny
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(Scribe set to Unknown Manu_Sporny)
16:03:05 <msporny> ScribeNick: msporny
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(Scribe set to Unknown msporny)
16:03:16 <msporny> Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force
16:03:28 <msporny> Chair: Ben_Adida
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16:03:39 <Zakim> +Ralph
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←
16:04:10 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben_Adida ←
16:04:31 <Ralph> scribenick: ralph
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(Scribe set to Unknown ralph)
16:05:06 <Ralph> scribe: Ralph
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(Scribe set to Unknown Ralph)
16:05:27 <Ralph> zakim, who's on the call?
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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
zakim, who's on the call? ←
16:05:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see msporny, ShaneM, Ralph, Ben_Adida
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see msporny, ShaneM, Ralph, Ben_Adida ←
16:07:32 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Manu to create design tests for @prefix and @profile. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[DONE] ACTION: Manu to create design tests for @prefix and @profile. [recorded in ACTION-16]">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-16] ←
16:07:40 <Ralph> Topic: Action Review
16:07:42 <msporny> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Feb/0180.html
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Unknown msporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Feb/0180.html ←
16:07:57 <Ralph> Manu: see my mail
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Unknown Manu: see my mail ←
16:08:17 <Ralph> ... I showed a first pass of three styles of markup
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... I showed a first pass of three styles of markup ←
16:09:09 <Ralph> [DROPPED] ACTION: Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think of slightly improved top-level organization [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[DROPPED] ACTION: Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think of slightly improved top-level organization [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] ←
16:09:25 <Ralph> Ben: I did a reorganization of the wiki then Manu added way more than this action require
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Unknown Ben: I did a reorganization of the wiki then Manu added way more than this action require ←
16:09:27 <Ralph> d
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d ←
16:09:36 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←
16:10:04 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph or Steven fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph or Steven fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01] ←
16:10:34 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in ACTION-03]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-03] ←
16:10:37 <Ralph> Ralph: drop this?
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Unknown Ralph: drop this? ←
16:10:48 <Ralph> Ben: I'd like to ping Jeremy; I'd like to see this
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Unknown Ben: I'd like to ping Jeremy; I'd like to see this ←
16:11:01 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to create TC to test @resource="[]" does not set object based on TC 123. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to create TC to test @resource="[]" does not set object based on TC 123. [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] ←
16:11:11 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Dec/0037.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Dec/0037.html [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] ←
16:11:29 <Ralph> Manu: I sent an email, no response yet
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Manu' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Manu: I sent an email, no response yet ←
16:11:36 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
16:11:44 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09] ←
16:11:47 <TomB> zakim, ??p4 is TomB
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Scribe problem: the name 'TomB' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown TomB: zakim, ??p4 is TomB ←
16:11:47 <Zakim> +TomB; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TomB; got it ←
16:12:02 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←
16:12:06 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark to review reasoning on setting explicit about="" on HEAD and BODY [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-rdfa-irc]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark to review reasoning on setting explicit about="" on HEAD and BODY [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-rdfa-irc] ←
16:12:14 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] ←
16:12:18 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-13] ←
16:12:36 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] ←
16:12:40 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] ←
16:13:19 <Ralph> Topic: @prefix, specifically @prefix on HEAD
16:13:28 <Ralph> Ben: I'd like to talk about this in concert with the test cases
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Unknown Ben: I'd like to talk about this in concert with the test cases ←
16:14:00 <Ralph> [[
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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
[[ ←
16:14:01 <Ralph> I see from the discussion on January 22 that there was talk of allowing
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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
I see from the discussion on January 22 that there was talk of allowing ←
16:14:01 <Ralph> @prefix on HEAD to apply to the BODY, but I think we had clearly said in
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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
@prefix on HEAD to apply to the BODY, but I think we had clearly said in ←
16:14:01 <Ralph> prior discussions that this shouldn't happen, because of the SAX-based
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prior discussions that this shouldn't happen, because of the SAX-based ←
16:14:01 <Ralph> processing of documents. We need to clarify this.
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processing of documents. We need to clarify this. ←
16:14:02 <Ralph> ]]
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]] ←
16:14:12 <Ralph> -- Ben, in -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Feb/0178.html email
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-- Ben, in -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Feb/0178.html email ←
16:14:28 <Ralph> Ben: am I correct in my interpretation of that 22-Jan discussion?
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Unknown Ben: am I correct in my interpretation of that 22-Jan discussion? ←
16:14:37 <Ralph> ... @prefix on HEAD would apply to BODY also?
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... @prefix on HEAD would apply to BODY also? ←
16:14:42 <Ralph> Manu: yes, that was the discussion
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Unknown Manu: yes, that was the discussion ←
16:14:48 <Ralph> ... we didn't get too deeply into this
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... we didn't get too deeply into this ←
16:14:59 <Ralph> ... Mark did propose this would be nice
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... Mark did propose this would be nice ←
16:14:59 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code? ←
16:14:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←
16:15:02 <Ralph> regrets+ Steven
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regrets+ Steven ←
16:15:24 <msporny> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/
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Unknown msporny: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/ ←
16:15:31 <Ralph> Manu: there are 3 variations on @prefix syntax
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Unknown Manu: there are 3 variations on @prefix syntax ←
16:15:42 <Zakim> +??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←
16:15:46 <Ralph> ... select 'Design Test Suite' and 'Unreviewed'
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... select 'Design Test Suite' and 'Unreviewed' ←
16:15:51 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?p5
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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ?p5 ←
16:15:51 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '?p5'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '?p5' ←
16:16:06 <TomB> just listening (muted)
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Unknown TomB: just listening (muted) ←
16:16:15 <markbirbeck> zakim, ??p5
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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, ??p5 ←
16:16:15 <Zakim> I don't understand '??p5', markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??p5', markbirbeck ←
16:16:29 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?
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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ? ←
16:16:29 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it ←
16:16:52 <TomB> :-)
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Unknown TomB: :-) ←
16:17:16 <ShaneM> "We will serve no predicate before its time"
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Unknown ShaneM: "We will serve no predicate before its time" ←
16:17:41 <Ralph> -- test 9001
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-- test 9001 ←
16:17:41 <msporny> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/
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Unknown msporny: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/ ←
16:17:56 <Ralph> -- test 9001: Establishing @prefix on HTML element
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-- test 9001: Establishing @prefix on HTML element ←
16:18:24 <Ralph> Manu: the purpose of these tests is just to provide a starting point for the design discussion
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Unknown Manu: the purpose of these tests is just to provide a starting point for the design discussion ←
16:18:34 <msporny> http://rdfa.info/wiki/design-suite
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Unknown msporny: http://rdfa.info/wiki/design-suite ←
16:18:55 <Ralph> -> http://rdfa.info/wiki/Design-suite#9001 explanation of purpose of test 9001
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-> http://rdfa.info/wiki/Design-suite#9001 explanation of purpose of test 9001 ←
16:19:39 <Ralph> Manu: 9002 shows a CSS-like syntax, 9003 shows an '=' syntax
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Unknown Manu: 9002 shows a CSS-like syntax, 9003 shows an '=' syntax ←
16:19:49 <Ralph> ... I prefer the '=' syntax, as does Toby Inkster
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... I prefer the '=' syntax, as does Toby Inkster ←
16:20:15 <Ralph> Ben: three decisions; what to call this @ttribute, what's the value syntax, what's the parsing model
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Unknown Ben: three decisions; what to call this @ttribute, what's the value syntax, what's the parsing model ←
16:20:44 <Ralph> Mark: sounds right. the name is the least important
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Unknown Mark: sounds right. the name is the least important ←
16:20:59 <Ralph> Ben: the 3 test assume @prefix for the name and the same parsing model as @xmlns
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Unknown Ben: the 3 test assume @prefix for the name and the same parsing model as @xmlns ←
16:21:07 <Ralph> ... they're testing for the value syntax options
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... they're testing for the value syntax options ←
16:21:11 <Ralph> Manu: correct
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Unknown Manu: correct ←
16:21:49 <Ralph> Ben: note that none of this discussion is really in scope for this Task Force
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Unknown Ben: note that none of this discussion is really in scope for this Task Force ←
16:22:11 <Ralph> ... we're producing some notes on how to proceed
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... we're producing some notes on how to proceed ←
16:22:25 <markbirbeck> q+
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Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←
16:22:32 <ShaneM> q+
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Unknown ShaneM: q+ ←
16:22:37 <Ralph> ... should we make a decision, or should we just note these options and leave it to whatever group is chartered to decide?
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... should we make a decision, or should we just note these options and leave it to whatever group is chartered to decide? ←
16:23:02 <Ralph> ... people who do implement these sorts of things tend to implement quickly
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... people who do implement these sorts of things tend to implement quickly ←
16:23:10 <Ralph> ... Manu's already done something, as has Ivan
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... Manu's already done something, as has Ivan ←
16:23:19 <Ralph> ... if we agree amongst ourselves this is a big step
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... if we agree amongst ourselves this is a big step ←
16:23:29 <Ralph> ... could be a Note for a year or so
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... could be a Note for a year or so ←
16:23:38 <Ralph> ... this would at least put it 'there'
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... this would at least put it 'there' ←
16:23:54 <Ralph> ... already some useful discussions around named graphs
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... already some useful discussions around named graphs ←
16:24:14 <Ralph> ... it would be good to converge on a way of approaching these even if we don't have a place to put the formal state of this convergence
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... it would be good to converge on a way of approaching these even if we don't have a place to put the formal state of this convergence ←
16:24:29 <msporny> +1 for going as far as we can with the syntax for @prefix
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Unknown msporny: +1 for going as far as we can with the syntax for @prefix ←
16:24:36 <Ralph> Ben: so we might proceed on the understanding that whatever we 'decide' can be overturned later
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Unknown Ben: so we might proceed on the understanding that whatever we 'decide' can be overturned later ←
16:24:52 <Ralph> Shane: we're likely to be participants in whatever discussion is chartered
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Unknown Shane: we're likely to be participants in whatever discussion is chartered ←
16:25:10 <Ralph> ... the XHTML2 WG can proceed now if it chooses
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... the XHTML2 WG can proceed now if it chooses ←
16:25:25 <Ralph> ... addition of @profile to the XHTML module would be covered by our current WG charter
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... addition of @profile to the XHTML module would be covered by our current WG charter ←
16:27:17 <markbirbeck> q+
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Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←
16:27:27 <benadida> ack shanem
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Unknown benadida: ack shanem ←
16:27:58 <ShaneM> q+ to discuss xmlns: and XML parsing rules
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Unknown ShaneM: q+ to discuss xmlns: and XML parsing rules ←
16:29:18 <Ralph> Ralph: the SVG folk are pushing on @xmlns support in HTML as well
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Unknown Ralph: the SVG folk are pushing on @xmlns support in HTML as well ←
16:29:28 <Ralph> ... SVG Tiny has fully incorporated RDFa
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... SVG Tiny has fully incorporated RDFa ←
16:29:40 <Ralph> ... and SVG itself uses @xmlns
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... and SVG itself uses @xmlns ←
16:29:58 <msporny> When Doug and I were talking at WDN09 - I found a wierd issue with him using xlink:href to specify hrefs in his SVG - it would break a RDFa parser as he marked it up.
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Unknown msporny: When Doug and I were talking at WDN09 - I found a wierd issue with him using xlink:href to specify hrefs in his SVG - it would break a RDFa parser as he marked it up. ←
16:30:01 <Ralph> ... so are we diluting our message if we add a syntactic alternative?
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... so are we diluting our message if we add a syntactic alternative? ←
16:30:14 <Ralph> Mark: it doesn't hurt to have both @xmlns and @prefix in the same document
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Unknown Mark: it doesn't hurt to have both @xmlns and @prefix in the same document ←
16:30:33 <Ralph> ... we consciously left open this scope in the CURIE spec
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... we consciously left open this scope in the CURIE spec ←
16:30:56 <Ralph> ... the wording says that XML documents should support @xmlns
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... the wording says that XML documents should support @xmlns ←
16:31:05 <Ralph> ... but leaves open the possibility of alternatives
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... but leaves open the possibility of alternatives ←
16:31:36 <Ralph> Shane: CURIE is Candidate Rec
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Unknown Shane: CURIE is Candidate Rec ←
16:31:58 <Ralph> ... it is correct that alternative mechanisms are permitted by the CURIE spec
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... it is correct that alternative mechanisms are permitted by the CURIE spec ←
16:32:14 <Ralph> ... the CURIE spec itself does not define any attributes
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... the CURIE spec itself does not define any attributes ←
16:32:23 <Ralph> ... the XHTML2 spec defines the mapping mechanism
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... the XHTML2 spec defines the mapping mechanism ←
16:32:42 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to discuss xmlns: and XML parsing rules
Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to discuss xmlns: and XML parsing rules ←
16:33:16 <Ralph> Shane: there's been a good argument in the recent days about why @xmlns: is not isomorphic w.r.t. processing model between HTML5 and XML
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Unknown Shane: there's been a good argument in the recent days about why @xmlns: is not isomorphic w.r.t. processing model between HTML5 and XML ←
16:33:42 <Ralph> ... if we say that the attribute name "xmlns:foo" should be treated as a token,
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... if we say that the attribute name "xmlns:foo" should be treated as a token, ←
16:33:59 <Ralph> ... the truth is that in the XML DOM a real parser should not be passing this token through
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... the truth is that in the XML DOM a real parser should not be passing this token through ←
16:34:16 <Ralph> ... the actual name of the attribute is 'foo' in the XML namespace, not a string 'xmlns:foo'
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... the actual name of the attribute is 'foo' in the XML namespace, not a string 'xmlns:foo' ←
16:34:33 <Ralph> ... @xml... is a reserved namespace
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... @xml... is a reserved namespace ←
16:34:47 <Ralph> Mark: doesn't the API allow the application to retrieve the full name of the attribute?
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Unknown Mark: doesn't the API allow the application to retrieve the full name of the attribute? ←
16:35:16 <Ralph> Manu: I thought Henri was specifically referring to XOM
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Unknown Manu: I thought Henri was specifically referring to XOM ←
16:35:39 <Ralph> ... the level 1 API would be fine but the level 2 API would filter xmlns:foo to something else
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... the level 1 API would be fine but the level 2 API would filter xmlns:foo to something else ←
16:36:19 <Ralph> Mark: but the argument was that an HTML5 processor _would_ give access to the full xmlns:foo whereas an XML pipeline would not
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Unknown Mark: but the argument was that an HTML5 processor _would_ give access to the full xmlns:foo whereas an XML pipeline would not ←
16:36:32 <Ralph> ... so why would an application that wants the full string use such an XML pipeline?
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... so why would an application that wants the full string use such an XML pipeline? ←
16:36:52 <Ralph> Manu: the point was that the cost is not zero as we've claimed
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Unknown Manu: the point was that the cost is not zero as we've claimed ←
16:37:33 <msporny> +1 for prefix instead of xmlns:
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Unknown msporny: +1 for prefix instead of xmlns: ←
16:37:34 <markbirbeck> +10
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Unknown markbirbeck: +10 ←
16:37:37 <Ralph> Ben: independent of Henri's argument, do we feel that adding @prefix would be prefereable
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Unknown Ben: independent of Henri's argument, do we feel that adding @prefix would be prefereable ←
16:38:14 <Ralph> Ralph: are you just talking about a synonym for @xmlns for CURIE prefixes?
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Unknown Ralph: are you just talking about a synonym for @xmlns for CURIE prefixes? ←
16:38:38 <Ralph> ... or the added features of the value that are under discussion?
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... or the added features of the value that are under discussion? ←
16:38:53 <Ralph> Mark: if we hadn't chosen @xmlns we'd be in deeper trouble
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Unknown Mark: if we hadn't chosen @xmlns we'd be in deeper trouble ←
16:39:23 <Ralph> Ben: there's an argument that @xmlns is working better than expected; we _can_ actually get to it in the browsers
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Unknown Ben: there's an argument that @xmlns is working better than expected; we _can_ actually get to it in the browsers ←
16:39:28 <msporny> me agrees - we needed to use xmlns: for XHTML, but we should provide @prefix as an alternative.
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Unknown msporny: me agrees - we needed to use xmlns: for XHTML, but we should provide @prefix as an alternative. ←
16:39:39 <Ralph> ... there's another argument that even if it is working it comes at a cost and we should move to @prefix anyway
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... there's another argument that even if it is working it comes at a cost and we should move to @prefix anyway ←
16:40:03 <Ralph> Ralph: but what _are_ the costs? I see huge costs in destabilizing a sapec
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Unknown Ralph: but what _are_ the costs? I see huge costs in destabilizing a spec ←
16:40:07 <Ralph> s/sapec/spec
16:40:21 <Ralph> Mark: we're also talking about changing the processing model a bit
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Unknown Mark: we're also talking about changing the processing model a bit ←
16:40:36 <Ralph> ... currently we don't provide a way to import a bunch of mappings
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... currently we don't provide a way to import a bunch of mappings ←
16:41:22 <Ralph> ... my main argument in favor of a new attribute is to add a feature to come closer to [the simplicity of] microformat
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... my main argument in favor of a new attribute is to add a feature to come closer to [the simplicity of] microformat ←
16:41:47 <Ralph> Ben: I was trying to separate the two issues; new features vs. name
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Unknown Ben: I was trying to separate the two issues; new features vs. name ←
16:41:55 <Ralph> Ralph: I don't think you can separate these questions now
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Unknown Ralph: I don't think you can separate these questions now ←
16:42:13 <Ralph> Mark: namespaces have never really been resolved in terms of attribute contents
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Unknown Mark: namespaces have never really been resolved in terms of attribute contents ←
16:42:35 <Ralph> ... so with a new attribute we could avoid some of the mistakes of namespaces
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... so with a new attribute we could avoid some of the mistakes of namespaces ←
16:43:04 <Ralph> Ben: so if @prefix works exactly like @xmlns, are you leaning to preferring it?
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Unknown Ben: so if @prefix works exactly like @xmlns, are you leaning to preferring it? ←
16:43:07 <Ralph> Manu, Shane: yes
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Manu, Shane: yes ←
16:43:34 <Ralph> Manu: we're not talking about removing @xmlns; that would destabilize it
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Unknown Manu: we're not talking about removing @xmlns; that would destabilize it ←
16:43:44 <Ralph> ... just adding @prefix as an alternative
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... just adding @prefix as an alternative ←
16:44:07 <Ralph> Mark: the RDFa spec says that if @xmlns: is present, it should be processed
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Unknown Mark: the RDFa spec says that if @xmlns: is present, it should be processed ←
16:44:18 <ShaneM> q+ to discuss extending list of reserved @rel values
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Unknown ShaneM: q+ to discuss extending list of reserved @rel values ←
16:44:27 <Ralph> ... we'd still process both @xmlns and @prefix
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... we'd still process both @xmlns and @prefix ←
16:44:48 <Ralph> ... in the CURIE spec I'm pretty sure we require that XML processors support @xmlns
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... in the CURIE spec I'm pretty sure we require that XML processors support @xmlns ←
16:44:59 <ShaneM> CURIE spec says "When CURIES are used in an XML-based host language, and that host language supports XML Namespaces, prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]. Such host languages MAY also provide additional prefix mapping definition mechanisms."
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Unknown ShaneM: CURIE spec says "When CURIES are used in an XML-based host language, and that host language supports XML Namespaces, prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]. Such host languages MAY also provide additional prefix mapping definition mechanisms." ←
16:45:15 <Ralph> Ben: in terms of the spec, we don't talk about HTML documents currently so I think we're safe adding @prefix
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Unknown Ben: in terms of the spec, we don't talk about HTML documents currently so I think we're safe adding @prefix ←
16:45:23 <Ralph> ... we do have to talk about the precedence of @xmlns and @prefix
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... we do have to talk about the precedence of @xmlns and @prefix ←
16:45:46 <Ralph> ... if we specified that @xmlns has precedence then we'd have a level of backward compatiblity for old XHTML parsers
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... if we specified that @xmlns has precedence then we'd have a level of backward compatiblity for old XHTML parsers ←
16:46:49 <Ralph> Mark: sort-of; new parsers would generate more triples but the triples generated by an old parser would match that same subset generated by a new parser
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Unknown Mark: sort-of; new parsers would generate more triples but the triples generated by an old parser would match that same subset generated by a new parser ←
16:49:20 <Ralph> Ben: a note from this TF suggesting that @prefix is a way forward would carry some weight
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Unknown Ben: a note from this TF suggesting that @prefix is a way forward would carry some weight ←
16:49:44 <Ralph> Mark: we could argue that @prefix is a token substitution before the RDFa processing is invoked
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Unknown Mark: we could argue that @prefix is a token substitution before the RDFa processing is invoked ←
16:49:55 <ShaneM> XHTML 1.2 could introduce @prefix
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Unknown ShaneM: XHTML 1.2 could introduce @prefix ←
16:50:06 <Ralph> Ben: but that would mean that the RDFa Recommendation no longer is sufficient to implement an RDFa processor
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Unknown Ben: but that would mean that the RDFa Recommendation no longer is sufficient to implement an RDFa processor ←
16:50:17 <msporny> who's working on XHTML 1.2, Shane?
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Unknown msporny: who's working on XHTML 1.2, Shane? ←
16:50:38 <Ralph> Mark: if @prefix is not introduced by some group with some authority then the HTML WG [might not give it any attention]
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Unknown Mark: if @prefix is not introduced by some group with some authority then the HTML WG [might not give it any attention] ←
16:50:56 <Ralph> ... the XHTML2 WG could give this a home and then in the future we harmonize the two
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... the XHTML2 WG could give this a home and then in the future we harmonize the two ←
16:51:09 <Ralph> Ben: test cases using @prefix would have to live somewhere
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Unknown Ben: test cases using @prefix would have to live somewhere ←
16:51:15 <Ralph> Mark: could be on a Wiki
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Unknown Mark: could be on a Wiki ←
16:52:02 <Ralph> ... a Last Call comment on CURIE would allow the XHTML2 WG to be on the record
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... a Last Call comment on CURIE would allow the XHTML2 WG to be on the record ←
16:52:13 <Ralph> ... as supporting it for some future version
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... as supporting it for some future version ←
16:52:37 <Ralph> Ben: do we want to say that RDFa parsers should start supporting @prefix soon?
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Unknown Ben: do we want to say that RDFa parsers should start supporting @prefix soon? ←
16:52:52 <Ralph> ... if we want @prefix to be supported in both HTML and XHTML
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... if we want @prefix to be supported in both HTML and XHTML ←
16:53:05 <Ralph> ... so we'd recommend that new markup use @prefix instead of @xmlns
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... so we'd recommend that new markup use @prefix instead of @xmlns ←
16:53:31 <Ralph> ... so some document at some time in the future should say how to write such a new RDFa parser
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... so some document at some time in the future should say how to write such a new RDFa parser ←
16:54:12 <Ralph> Mark: given our recent experience of HTML5 discussions, it's asking for trouble if we base this on trying to find some accommodation
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Unknown Mark: given our recent experience of HTML5 discussions, it's asking for trouble if we base this on trying to find some accommodation ←
16:54:25 <Ralph> ... whereas if we say we really believe this [independently], we have a stronger argument
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... whereas if we say we really believe this [independently], we have a stronger argument ←
16:55:17 <Ralph> Ben: sounds like we'd want to update the RDFa specification to add @prefix to it
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Unknown Ben: sounds like we'd want to update the RDFa specification to add @prefix to it ←
16:55:20 <ShaneM> I think that we could successfully do this as a "PER" second edition of RDFa Syntax 1.0
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Unknown ShaneM: I think that we could successfully do this as a "PER" second edition of RDFa Syntax 1.0 ←
16:55:25 <Ralph> ... @xmlns would still be supported
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... @xmlns would still be supported ←
16:59:00 <Ralph> Ralph: it would be harmful for this group to push for XML documents that do not conform to the W3C Recommendation
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Unknown Ralph: it would be harmful for this group to push for XML documents that do not conform to the W3C Recommendation ←
16:59:20 <Ralph> ... so I am opposed to adding @prefix without updating the Recommendation
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... so I am opposed to adding @prefix without updating the Recommendation ←
16:59:48 <Ralph> ... the cost of updating the Recommendation could be justified if the update included new features as well
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... the cost of updating the Recommendation could be justified if the update included new features as well ←
17:00:33 <Ralph> ... a possible new feature is the value syntax for @prefix
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... a possible new feature is the value syntax for @prefix ←
17:01:41 <Ralph> Shane: the XHTML2 WG could update the RDFa Recommendation
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Unknown Shane: the XHTML2 WG could update the RDFa Recommendation ←
17:01:45 <Ralph> Ralph: yes, that's plausible
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Unknown Ralph: yes, that's plausible ←
17:02:46 <Ralph> Ben: so wiki pages, test cases, etc. should have large disclaimers right now saying @prefix is experimental
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Unknown Ben: so wiki pages, test cases, etc. should have large disclaimers right now saying @prefix is experimental ←
17:03:49 <Ralph> ... path forward could be to keep this discussion in the wiki as experimental, talk with implementors, work out details in the experimental wiki page
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... path forward could be to keep this discussion in the wiki as experimental, talk with implementors, work out details in the experimental wiki page ←
17:03:53 <Ralph> Manu: yes
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Unknown Manu: yes ←
17:04:59 <Ralph> Mark: I'm a bit uneasy as there are documents being circulated that look like specifications when they should really be blogs
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Unknown Mark: I'm a bit uneasy as there are documents being circulated that look like specifications when they should really be blogs ←
17:05:27 <Ralph> ... and the wiki might start to look like a specification too
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... and the wiki might start to look like a specification too ←
17:05:40 <Ralph> ... the wiki shouldn't imply that we all agree on the content
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... the wiki shouldn't imply that we all agree on the content ←
17:05:59 <Ralph> Manu: you want more than the "experimental" note on the wiki pages?
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Unknown Manu: you want more than the "experimental" note on the wiki pages? ←
17:06:13 <Zakim> -ShaneM
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Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
17:06:14 <Ralph> ... "the existence of this page does not imply ..."
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... "the existence of this page does not imply ..." ←
17:06:34 <Ralph> Mark: might be worth having a higher-level page that links to these
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Unknown Mark: might be worth having a higher-level page that links to these ←
17:07:22 <Ralph> [adjourned]
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[adjourned] ←
17:07:28 <Zakim> -msporny
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Zakim IRC Bot: -msporny ←
17:07:29 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
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Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←
17:07:31 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben_Adida ←
17:07:32 <Zakim> -TomB
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Zakim IRC Bot: -TomB ←
17:07:33 <Zakim> -Ralph
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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←
17:07:35 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←
17:07:35 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
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rrsagent, please draft minutes ←
17:07:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph ←
17:07:36 <Zakim> Attendees were msporny, ShaneM, Ralph, Ben_Adida, TomB, markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were msporny, ShaneM, Ralph, Ben_Adida, TomB, markbirbeck ←
17:07:48 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
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rrsagent, please draft minutes ←
17:07:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph ←
17:07:54 <Ralph> zakim, bye
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zakim, bye ←
17:10:20 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
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rrsagent, please draft minutes ←
17:10:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph ←
17:14:08 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
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rrsagent, bye ←
17:14:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
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