15:14:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-rdf-wg-irc ←
15:14:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
15:14:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
15:14:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 46 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 46 minutes ←
15:14:54 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:14:54 <trackbot> Date: 04 December 2013
15:19:52 <ivan> Chair: Guus
15:36:46 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.12.04
(No events recorded for 21 minutes)
Ted Thibodeau: TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.12.04 ←
15:59:36 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
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Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started ←
15:59:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:59:45 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
15:59:45 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:59:57 <Zakim> +pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps ←
16:00:29 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus_Schreiber ←
16:00:34 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
16:00:40 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
16:00:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, ??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, ??P6 ←
16:00:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, AZ, Guus, tbaker, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, TallTed, davidwood, AndyS, m4nu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, AZ, Guus, tbaker, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, TallTed, davidwood, AndyS, m4nu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot ←
16:00:52 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
16:01:30 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
16:01:38 <AZ> Zakim, ??P11 is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, ??P11 is me ←
16:01:39 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
16:01:43 <ivan> zakim, code?
Ivan Herman: zakim, code? ←
16:01:43 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan ←
16:02:16 <Zakim> +David_Wood
Zakim IRC Bot: +David_Wood ←
16:02:31 <Guus> chair: Guus
16:02:33 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
16:02:47 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
16:02:47 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
16:02:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, Sandro, AZ, David_Wood, Ivan, ??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, Sandro, AZ, David_Wood, Ivan, ??P13 ←
16:02:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, gkellogg, pfps, AZ, Guus, tbaker, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, TallTed, davidwood, AndyS, m4nu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, gkellogg, pfps, AZ, Guus, tbaker, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, TallTed, davidwood, AndyS, m4nu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot ←
16:03:04 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P13 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P13 is me ←
16:03:04 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
16:03:05 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
16:03:12 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
16:03:12 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
16:03:14 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
16:03:14 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
16:03:20 <Zakim> +??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18 ←
16:03:23 <markus> zakim, ??P18 is me
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P18 is me ←
16:03:23 <Zakim> +markus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it ←
16:03:27 <Zakim> +??P16
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16 ←
16:03:30 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P16
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P16 ←
16:03:31 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
16:03:42 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
16:03:51 <pchampin> zakim, ??P15 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P15 is me ←
16:03:51 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
16:04:59 <sandro> scribe: sandro
(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)
16:05:29 <sandro> guus: busy agenda, expecting 75 minutes
Guus Schreiber: busy agenda, expecting 75 minutes ←
16:05:48 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
16:05:48 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
16:05:51 <sandro> topic: Admin
16:05:51 <pfps> minutes look OK
Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes look OK ←
16:05:51 <pfps> RESOLVED: minutes 27 Nov accepted
RESOLVED: minutes 27 Nov accepted ←
16:06:29 <sandro> gregg: Have the tests been moved into their final location?
Gregg Kellogg: Have the tests been moved into their final location? ←
16:06:41 <ivan> I di
Ivan Herman: I did ←
16:06:44 <ivan> s/di/did/
16:06:54 <AndyS> e.g. http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/
Andy Seaborne: e.g. http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/ ←
16:07:02 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
16:07:31 <sandro> page now points: The test suite is at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/file/d2aa3c0cdec7/rdf-turtle/tests-nt.
page now points: The test suite is at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/file/d2aa3c0cdec7/rdf-turtle/tests-nt. ←
16:08:02 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:08:09 <Zakim> +zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2 ←
16:08:20 <sandro> guus: PLEASE contact your AC rep to vote on JSON-LD
Guus Schreiber: PLEASE contact your AC rep to vote on JSON-LD ←
16:08:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:08:31 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
16:08:31 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
16:08:32 <sandro> topic: CR Implementations
16:08:41 <sandro> guus: rdf-mt is being challening
Guus Schreiber: rdf-mt is being challening ←
16:09:06 <sandro> pfps: We've had two sort-of responses, one from Olivier and one from Michael Schneider
Peter Patel-Schneider: We've had two sort-of responses, one from Olivier and one from Michael Schneider ←
16:09:35 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:09:35 <sandro> pfps: Olivier's Corese -- I looked at it -- doesn't produce the expected answer for 7 of the 42 tests.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Olivier's Corese -- I looked at it -- doesn't produce the expected answer for 7 of the 42 tests. ←
16:09:46 <gkellogg> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html
Gregg Kellogg: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html ←
16:09:51 <sandro> pfps: biggest reason is they don't do anything follows from a contradiction
Peter Patel-Schneider: biggest reason is they don't do anything follows from a contradiction ←
16:10:09 <sandro> pfps: I think we once decided not to test that.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I think we once decided not to test that. ←
16:10:26 <sandro> pfps: I suggest we change those tests to be directly a contradiction, instead of anything-follows-from
Peter Patel-Schneider: I suggest we change those tests to be directly a contradiction, instead of anything-follows-from ←
16:10:47 <sandro> pfps: containerMembershipProperties ... lots of systems don't do anything with them if they don't occur in the input
Peter Patel-Schneider: containerMembershipProperties ... lots of systems don't do anything with them if they don't occur in the input ←
16:11:01 <sandro> pfps: A solution is to just put it in the input as a crutch.
Peter Patel-Schneider: A solution is to just put it in the input as a crutch. ←
16:11:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:11:16 <sandro> pfps: Also, something with integer and string, I still need to look into that.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Also, something with integer and string, I still need to look into that. ←
16:11:29 <sandro> guus: How many of the 7 would you consider real failures
Guus Schreiber: How many of the 7 would you consider real failures ←
16:11:34 <sandro> pfps: None.
Peter Patel-Schneider: None. ←
16:11:46 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
16:12:27 <sandro> pfps: Very few people actually implement "entailment" per se; instead the implement a sort of "completion" thing. So they'll detect contractions, but they wont implement a couple of the structural rules, since those are done at the matching phase at the end
Peter Patel-Schneider: Very few people actually implement "entailment" per se; instead the implement a sort of "completion" thing. So they'll detect contractions, but they wont implement a couple of the structural rules, since those are done at the matching phase at the end ←
16:12:45 <sandro> pfps: Oh, maybe one. Inclusion detection between integer and string. That may be a failure.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Oh, maybe one. Inclusion detection between integer and string. That may be a failure. ←
16:13:25 <sandro> pfps: If you say integer is a subclass of string, that
Peter Patel-Schneider: If you say integer is a subclass of string, that ←
16:13:37 <sandro> pfps: If you say integer is a subclass of string, that's false, and Corese doesn't detect that.
Peter Patel-Schneider: If you say integer is a subclass of string, that's false, and Corese doesn't detect that. ←
16:13:45 <sandro> pfps: I need to ping Olivier back a little more.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I need to ping Olivier back a little more. ←
16:14:02 <sandro> pfps: There was an error in the manifest that I corrected.
Peter Patel-Schneider: There was an error in the manifest that I corrected. ←
16:14:04 <markus> shouldn't the report at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html show the content of the turtle files? I just get "....ttl not loaded" everywhere; gkellogg !?
Markus Lanthaler: shouldn't the report at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html show the content of the turtle files? I just get "....ttl not loaded" everywhere; gkellogg !? ←
16:14:33 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
16:15:40 <PatH> FWIW, XSD says integers aren't strings.
Patrick Hayes: FWIW, XSD says integers aren't strings. ←
16:16:23 <sandro> pfps: I sent personal messages to the people I thought were appropriate, but haven't gotten encouraging responses.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I sent personal messages to the people I thought were appropriate, but haven't gotten encouraging responses. ←
16:16:24 <PatH> OK, neveeerrrrr miiind.
Patrick Hayes: OK, neveeerrrrr miiind. ←
16:16:50 <sandro> sandro: maybe me, or the chairs, should try contacting them as well?
Sandro Hawke: maybe me, or the chairs, should try contacting them as well? ←
16:17:05 <sandro> pfps: Maybe they're working on them. :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: Maybe they're working on them. :-) ←
16:17:20 <Guus> q?
Guus Schreiber: q? ←
16:17:53 <PatH> tried jos deRoo?
Patrick Hayes: tried jos de Roo? ←
16:18:11 <ivan> s/deRoo/de Roo/
16:18:48 <sandro> sandro: What about Mike Dean & associated Silk folks?
Sandro Hawke: What about Mike Dean & associated Silk folks? ←
16:19:38 <PatH> Parliament doing RDF reasoning sounds rather unlikely to me.
Patrick Hayes: Parliament doing RDF reasoning sounds rather unlikely to me. ←
16:20:19 <ericP> PatH, jos would probably use euler, which is actually two cwm clones, one implemented in C# and the other in prolog
Eric Prud'hommeaux: PatH, jos would probably use euler, which is actually two cwm clones, one implemented in C# and the other in prolog ←
16:20:38 <PatH> i think it would be conforming to simply report contradictions as an error.
Patrick Hayes: i think it would be conforming to simply report contradictions as an error. ←
16:20:50 <ericP> PatH, does prolog implement "everything follows from a contradiction"?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: PatH, does prolog implement "everything follows from a contradiction"? ←
16:21:05 <sandro> pfps: A rule based system can do all of these except Everything Follows from a Contradiction
Peter Patel-Schneider: A rule based system can do all of these except Everything Follows from a Contradiction ←
16:21:25 <PatH> EricP, if you mean, does it actually draw those ocnclusions, no.
Patrick Hayes: EricP, if you mean, does it actually draw those ocnclusions, no. ←
16:21:38 <sandro> sandro: yes, let's change the everything-follows-from-a-contradiction
Sandro Hawke: yes, let's change the everything-follows-from-a-contradiction ←
16:21:47 <sandro> sandro: WHat about Jan Weilemaker?
Sandro Hawke: WHat about Jan Weilemaker? ←
16:21:54 <PatH> YOu can map it all into a FOL style syntax.
Patrick Hayes: YOu can map it all into a FOL style syntax. ←
16:22:05 <sandro> pfps: Oxford is close, except for predicate variables
Peter Patel-Schneider: Oxford is close, except for predicate variables ←
16:22:36 <sandro> pfps: If you map to FOL it's not triples any more
Peter Patel-Schneider: If you map to FOL it's not triples any more ←
16:23:10 <sandro> pfps: whatever representation, it needs to handle variables in its predicate position.
Peter Patel-Schneider: whatever representation, it needs to handle variables in its predicate position. ←
16:23:23 <sandro> I use one predicate: rdf(s,p,o)
I use one predicate: rdf(s,p,o) ←
16:24:02 <sandro> pfps: The Oxford folks are saying that's not as efficient.
Peter Patel-Schneider: The Oxford folks are saying that's not as efficient. ←
16:24:56 <sandro> PROPOSED: Change the semantics tests to use an explicit contradiction marker, in the test manifest, instead of having everything following from a contradiction.
PROPOSED: Change the semantics tests to use an explicit contradiction marker, in the test manifest, instead of having everything following from a contradiction. ←
16:25:00 <PatH> I think they should be required to explode, but this MUST be interpreted as an error condition.
Patrick Hayes: I think they should be required to explode, but this MUST be interpreted as an error condition. ←
16:25:05 <Guus> +1
Guus Schreiber: +1 ←
16:25:11 <pfps> +1
16:25:13 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
16:25:13 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
16:25:14 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
16:25:18 <zwu2> +1
16:25:18 <sandro> +1
+1 ←
16:25:19 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
16:25:19 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
16:25:22 <pchampin> +1
16:25:22 <markus> +1
Markus Lanthaler: +1 ←
16:25:31 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
16:25:33 <sandro> RESOLVED: Change the semantics tests to use an explicit contradiction marker, in the test manifest, instead of having everything following from a contradiction.
RESOLVED: Change the semantics tests to use an explicit contradiction marker, in the test manifest, instead of having everything following from a contradiction. ←
16:25:50 <sandro> pfps: I'll make those changes and talk to Olivier about re-running his stuff.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'll make those changes and talk to Olivier about re-running his stuff. ←
16:26:52 <sandro> sandro:I think we need to resolve PR a week from today.
Sandro Hawke: I think we need to resolve PR a week from today. ←
16:27:20 <sandro> guus: We made our lives difficult with semantics tests.
Guus Schreiber: We made our lives difficult with semantics tests. ←
16:27:48 <PatH> Even with the 2004 semantics, RDFS allows contradictions. What was done with such tests then?
Patrick Hayes: Even with the 2004 semantics, RDFS allows contradictions. What was done with such tests then? ←
16:28:01 <sandro> pfps: I'll send contact list to chairs
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'll send contact list to chairs ←
16:28:13 <sandro> guus: We'll try to keep track of them over the coming weeks.
Guus Schreiber: We'll try to keep track of them over the coming weeks. ←
16:28:21 <sandro> topic: Syntax CRs
16:28:40 <sandro> gregg: Got result from Dave Backet, who is NOT doing TriG
Gregg Kellogg: Got result from Dave Backet, who is NOT doing TriG ←
16:29:16 <sandro> gregg: We have 2 impls for N-Quads and TriG (Jena and Ruby RDF) and 3 for NTriples, with raptor.
Gregg Kellogg: We have 2 impls for N-Quads and TriG (Jena and Ruby RDF) and 3 for NTriples, with raptor. ←
16:29:40 <sandro> guus: So all four languages are fine, as far as exit criteria
Guus Schreiber: So all four languages are fine, as far as exit criteria ←
16:29:55 <sandro> guus: All impl reports up to date?
Guus Schreiber: All impl reports up to date? ←
16:30:03 <sandro> gregg: small update to N-Triples
Gregg Kellogg: small update to N-Triples ←
16:30:20 <sandro> guus: Excellent.
Guus Schreiber: Excellent. ←
16:30:53 <sandro> eric: Are Turtle parsers N-Triples parsers?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Are Turtle parsers N-Triples parsers? ←
16:31:05 <sandro> gregg: Not really, because of the Negative Syntax tests.
Gregg Kellogg: Not really, because of the Negative Syntax tests. ←
16:31:50 <sandro> guus: So our only CR-exit concern is rdf-mt
Guus Schreiber: So our only CR-exit concern is rdf-mt ←
16:32:01 <sandro> topic: CR Comments
16:32:30 <sandro> guus: It looks like Turtle are all resolved, yes?
Guus Schreiber: It looks like Turtle are all resolved, yes? ←
16:32:31 <sandro> ericP: Yes.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Yes. ←
16:32:59 <sandro> guus: Proposal from Andy on closing 4 TriGe issues. Okay?
Guus Schreiber: Proposal from Andy on closing 4 TriGe issues. Okay? ←
16:33:34 <Guus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0159.html
Guus Schreiber: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0159.html ←
16:34:21 <sandro> PROPOSED: close issue-172 issue-173 issue-174 issue-175 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0159.html
PROPOSED: close ISSUE-172 ISSUE-173 ISSUE-174 ISSUE-175 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0159.html ←
16:34:24 <AndyS> +1
Andy Seaborne: +1 ←
16:34:32 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
16:34:33 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
16:34:40 <pfps> +1
16:34:49 <zwu2> +1
16:34:53 <sandro> andy: They've all been accepted by the commenters, details in issue writeups
Andy Seaborne: They've all been accepted by the commenters, details in issue writeups ←
16:34:54 <sandro> +1
+1 ←
16:34:54 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
16:34:58 <markus> +1
Markus Lanthaler: +1 ←
16:35:04 <pchampin> +1
16:35:05 <sandro> RESOLVED: close issue-172 issue-173 issue-174 issue-175 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0159.html
RESOLVED: close ISSUE-172 ISSUE-173 ISSUE-174 ISSUE-175 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0159.html ←
16:35:40 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
16:35:46 <yvesr> +1
Yves Raimond: +1 ←
16:36:18 <sandro> guus: Need handling of comments on N-triples and N-Quads. Maybe we need another editor, since Gavin hasn't been doing it.
Guus Schreiber: Need handling of comments on N-triples and N-Quads. Maybe we need another editor, since Gavin hasn't been doing it. ←
16:36:31 <sandro> andy: If necessary
Andy Seaborne: If necessary ←
16:36:39 <sandro> andy: Okay, I'll do it.
Andy Seaborne: Okay, I'll do it. ←
16:36:57 <sandro> guus: Thanks!
Guus Schreiber: Thanks! ←
16:36:57 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
16:36:57 <davidwood> Thanks, Andy
David Wood: Thanks, Andy ←
16:37:10 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
16:37:15 <sandro> guus: Comments on escape characters? Real issue?
Guus Schreiber: Comments on escape characters? Real issue? ←
16:37:24 <sandro> andy: I don't think so, but I haven't looked closely yet.
Andy Seaborne: I don't think so, but I haven't looked closely yet. ←
16:37:48 <sandro> andy: It's editorial, "Would you clarify..."
Andy Seaborne: It's editorial, "Would you clarify..." ←
16:37:56 <sandro> guus: I repled to David Booth today
Guus Schreiber: I replied to David Booth today ←
16:38:05 <sandro> guus: Maybe we should send some reminders
Guus Schreiber: Maybe we should send some reminders ←
16:38:19 <sandro> guus: IRIs and globals, and M. Schn.
Guus Schreiber: IRIs and globals, and M. Schn. ←
16:38:25 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
16:38:52 <sandro> action: guus send reminders for comments 1 and 2
ACTION: guus send reminders for comments 1 and 2 ←
16:38:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-331 - Send reminders for comments 1 and 2 [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-12-11].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-331 - Send reminders for comments 1 and 2 [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-12-11]. ←
16:38:53 <PatH> I think we already sent a response to mIchael, no?
Patrick Hayes: I think we already sent a response to mIchael, no? ←
16:39:12 <sandro> (the leftovers from Last Call)
(the leftovers from Last Call) ←
16:39:15 <PatH> Ah, ok.
Patrick Hayes: Ah, ok. ←
16:39:18 <sandro> guus: Just reminders.
Guus Schreiber: Just reminders. ←
16:39:54 <sandro> guus: Please start getting your documents in order for Proposed Recommendation.
Guus Schreiber: Please start getting your documents in order for Proposed Recommendation. ←
16:40:03 <PatH> What needs to be done?
Patrick Hayes: What needs to be done? ←
16:40:09 <AndyS> CR #13 is a little more than editorial.
Andy Seaborne: CR #13 is a little more than editorial. ←
16:40:17 <sandro> guus: Document is fine, aside from Boiler Plate?
Guus Schreiber: Document is fine, aside from Boiler Plate? ←
16:40:29 <sandro> pfps: Yes.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Yes. ←
16:40:39 <sandro> markus: Section on Literals, maybe.
Markus Lanthaler: Section on Literals, maybe. ←
16:41:16 <sandro> davidwood: Section at the bottom on differences is Way Out Of Date. I propose cutting it and instead having a pointer to the What's New Note.
David Wood: Section at the bottom on differences is Way Out Of Date. I propose cutting it and instead having a pointer to the What's New Note. ←
16:41:34 <sandro> guus: Turtle document status?
Guus Schreiber: Turtle document status? ←
16:41:36 <Souri> s/repled/replied/
16:41:38 <ericP> ack me
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ack me ←
16:41:49 <sandro> ericP: I believe the document is in order.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I believe the document is in order. ←
16:42:05 <davidwood> Concepts Appendix A is out of date and should be removed in favor of the What's New note.
David Wood: Concepts Appendix A is out of date and should be removed in favor of the What's New note. ←
16:42:11 <sandro> guus: Schema and XML later
Guus Schreiber: Schema and XML later ←
16:42:14 <AndyS> q-
Andy Seaborne: q- ←
16:44:09 <sandro> guus: decision on 11th or 18th. Hm.
Guus Schreiber: decision on 11th or 18th. Hm. ←
16:44:46 <sandro> guus: Schema is coming along and pretty good.
Guus Schreiber: Schema is coming along and pretty good. ←
16:45:43 <PatH> I trust you. Guus.
Patrick Hayes: I trust you. Guus. ←
16:45:56 <sandro> ( Note Publication Moratorium: starting 18 December 2013 through 1 January 2014 )
( Note Publication Moratorium: starting 18 December 2013 through 1 January 2014 ) ←
16:47:17 <PatH> months????
Patrick Hayes: months???? ←
16:47:52 <PatH> <strangled noises />
Patrick Hayes: <strangled noises /> ←
16:47:55 <sandro> guus: I put my name in the Schema acknowledgement sections, but didnt list myself as an editor.
Guus Schreiber: I put my name in the Schema acknowledgement sections, but didnt list myself as an editor. ←
16:48:07 <PatH> OK
Patrick Hayes: OK ←
16:48:52 <sandro> guus: I removed the schema appendix.
Guus Schreiber: I removed the schema appendix. ←
16:49:05 <sandro> guus: it was a courtesy, not it's a discourtesy,.
Guus Schreiber: it was a courtesy, not it's a discourtesy,. ←
16:49:50 <sandro> sandro: Title. Ugh. Oh well.
Sandro Hawke: Title. Ugh. Oh well. ←
16:49:56 <sandro> topic: RDF/XML
16:50:40 <sandro> guus: Fabien isn't here. THere's a day of editorial work to day. I'll might do it if Fabien can't. We didn't promise it in any case.
Guus Schreiber: Fabien isn't here. THere's a day of editorial work to day. I'll might do it if Fabien can't. We didn't promise it in any case. ←
16:50:48 <sandro> topic: Namespace Documents
16:50:54 <davidwood> NO
David Wood: NO ←
16:50:57 <davidwood> :)
David Wood: :) ←
16:51:28 <pchampin> I'm buying!
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I'm buying! ←
16:53:34 <sandro> sandro: My sense is that the nsdoc is NOT the WG's responsibility, but I'll definitely ask for WG review.
Sandro Hawke: My sense is that the nsdoc is NOT the WG's responsibility, but I'll definitely ask for WG review. ←
16:53:45 <sandro> guus: Sounds okay.
Guus Schreiber: Sounds okay. ←
16:53:57 <sandro> topic: Dataset Semantics
16:54:21 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
16:54:26 <sandro> guus: Pat, what about your reviews?
Guus Schreiber: Pat, what about your reviews? ←
16:54:55 <sandro> pat: I think the document is basically okay, although it could use some editorial work and polish.
Patrick Hayes: I think the document is basically okay, although it could use some editorial work and polish. ←
16:55:30 <sandro> guus: Plan is to publish in December and then republish at Rec time.
Guus Schreiber: Plan is to publish in December and then republish at Rec time. ←
16:55:49 <sandro> antoine: I've read the comments; I'll reply soon. Some discussion to do.
Antoine Zimmermann: I've read the comments; I'll reply soon. Some discussion to do. ←
16:55:59 <sandro> antoine: Most of them should be fine.
Antoine Zimmermann: Most of them should be fine. ←
16:56:22 <sandro> guus: You CAN leave Open Issue in the document. It doesn't need to be consensus in this version.
Guus Schreiber: You CAN leave Open Issue in the document. It doesn't need to be consensus in this version. ←
16:56:31 <AZ> s/an:/AZ:/
Antoine Zimmermann: s/an:/AZ:/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
16:56:56 <sandro> sandro: That suggests we'll all be doing RDF WG stuff during January
Sandro Hawke: That suggests we'll all be doing RDF WG stuff during January ←
16:56:59 <sandro> pat: That's life.
Patrick Hayes: That's life. ←
16:57:23 <sandro> guus: Please go ahead without my review.
Guus Schreiber: Please go ahead without my review. ←
16:57:27 <sandro> topic: Primer
16:57:55 <sandro> guus: Very extensive review from Pat. Ongoing discussion. Figures are not quite right yet.
Guus Schreiber: Very extensive review from Pat. Ongoing discussion. Figures are not quite right yet. ←
16:58:07 <yvesr> (figures should be there this evening)
Yves Raimond: (figures should be there this evening) ←
16:58:15 <sandro> .. I've adopted MOST of Pat's comments. I hope you like the rephrasing about Statements, Pat.
.. I've adopted MOST of Pat's comments. I hope you like the rephrasing about Statements, Pat. ←
16:58:21 <PatH> i need to go over the latest version.
Patrick Hayes: i need to go over the latest version. ←
16:58:24 <sandro> .. main thing left is how we talk about Multiple Graphs.
.. main thing left is how we talk about Multiple Graphs. ←
16:58:46 <sandro> PatH: I'm not up on the latest email from Guus.
Patrick Hayes: I'm not up on the latest email from Guus. ←
16:59:16 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
16:59:29 <sandro> guus: On Multiple Graphs: <reading>
Guus Schreiber: On Multiple Graphs: <reading> ←
17:00:07 <tbaker> what is the time-frame for review and revision of the Primer?
Thomas Baker: what is the time-frame for review and revision of the Primer? ←
17:00:23 <sandro> pfps: A Literal is a Resource.
Patrick Hayes: A Literal is a Resource. ←
17:01:10 <yvesr> s/pfps/PatH
17:01:27 <sandro> sandro: Literals and IRI are types of Terms; they denote Resources
Sandro Hawke: Literals and IRI are types of Terms; they denote Resources ←
17:01:33 <sandro> Pat: Right.
Patrick Hayes: Right. ←
17:04:04 <sandro> guus: I'm thinking about publishing soon so we can do a revision for Rec.
Guus Schreiber: I'm thinking about publishing soon so we can do a revision for Rec. ←
17:04:15 <sandro> Pat: I'm still not happy about the "Meta" stuff.
Patrick Hayes: I'm still not happy about the "Meta" stuff. ←
17:04:29 <sandro> guus: We'll put in some warning notes about that.
Guus Schreiber: We'll put in some warning notes about that. ←
17:05:41 <sandro> ivan, I don't agree
ivan, I don't agree ←
17:05:58 <yvesr> so who should?
Yves Raimond: so who should? ←
17:06:44 <yvesr> PatH: we had an explicit requirement to add a provenance example to the primer
Yves Raimond: PatH, we had an explicit requirement to add a provenance example to the primer ←
17:06:53 <yvesr> s/PatH:/PatH,
17:07:30 <sandro> pat: THe Primery must say: ONLY DO THIS IF YOU HAVE OUT-OF-BAND AGREEMENT, YOU CAN'T DO THIS ON THE OPEN WEB.
Patrick Hayes: THe Primery must say: ONLY DO THIS IF YOU HAVE OUT-OF-BAND AGREEMENT, YOU CAN'T DO THIS ON THE OPEN WEB. ←
17:07:48 <sandro> markus: Even with that warning, people will still do it.
Markus Lanthaler: Even with that warning, people will still do it. ←
17:08:20 <sandro> pat: I'm hearning people who think we're giving them semantics.
Patrick Hayes: I'm hearning people who think we're giving them semantics. ←
17:08:57 <ivan> can we refer to Antoine's document in the primer?
Ivan Herman: can we refer to Antoine's document in the primer? ←
17:09:13 <yvesr> sandro, and which are the two different ways?
Yves Raimond: sandro, and which are the two different ways? ←
17:09:15 <Arnaud> is the primer the place for airing this kind of dirty laundry??
Arnaud Le Hors: is the primer the place for airing this kind of dirty laundry?? ←
17:09:29 <PatH> +1 Arnaud
Patrick Hayes: +1 Arnaud ←
17:09:59 <sandro> It's the place for telling people things they need to know, yes?
It's the place for telling people things they need to know, yes? ←
17:10:02 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me ←
17:10:02 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted ←
17:10:05 <sandro> and everyone wants to know.
and everyone wants to know. ←
17:10:52 <sandro> Yves, the two ways are graph-name-is-URL-for-that-content and graph-name-denotes-that-content.
Yves, the two ways are graph-name-is-URL-for-that-content and graph-name-denotes-that-content. ←
17:11:12 <yvesr> Guus, +999
Yves Raimond: Guus, +999 ←
17:11:16 <sandro> guus: It'd be good to have provenance example in primer.
Guus Schreiber: It'd be good to have provenance example in primer. ←
17:11:53 <sandro> guus: And weird to have a big feature of RDF that's not explained in Primer.
Guus Schreiber: And weird to have a big feature of RDF that's not explained in Primer. ←
17:12:19 <PatH> i think we should not have a provenance example in the primer. RDF as specified does not support provenance.
Patrick Hayes: i think we should not have a provenance example in the primer. RDF as specified does not support provenance. ←
17:12:19 <sandro> ivan: The Provenance example is usable only if you pick one of Antoine's semantics.
Ivan Herman: The Provenance example is usable only if you pick one of Antoine's semantics. ←
17:12:36 <Zakim> -David_Wood
Zakim IRC Bot: -David_Wood ←
17:12:53 <sandro> markus: What about Sandro's Direct Datasets. Can we use that?
Markus Lanthaler: What about Sandro's Direct Datasets. Can we use that? ←
17:13:04 <sandro> ivan: That's what Antoine's document does.
Ivan Herman: That's what Antoine's document does. ←
17:13:36 <sandro> pat: But Antoine's document doesn't ....
Patrick Hayes: But Antoine's document doesn't .... ←
17:13:44 <sandro> markus: Bring them inband.
Markus Lanthaler: Bring them inband. ←
17:14:40 <sandro> sandro: ANyone can define the terms
Sandro Hawke: ANyone can define the terms ←
17:14:56 <sandro> pat: Antoine's spec clarifies several options.
Patrick Hayes: Antoine's spec clarifies several options. ←
17:15:25 <AZ> +1 to Pat here
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 to Pat here ←
17:15:41 <sandro> pat: But not enough to really tell you how to use.
Patrick Hayes: But not enough to really tell you how to use. ←
17:16:29 <sandro> sandro: How about if the Primer says "We've provided syntax, but not enough semantics to make them useful, so stay tuned."
Sandro Hawke: How about if the Primer says "We've provided syntax, but not enough semantics to make them useful, so stay tuned." ←
17:16:39 <sandro> pat: Yes.
Patrick Hayes: Yes. ←
17:16:52 <sandro> pat: So give an example that doesn't use metadata.
Patrick Hayes: So give an example that doesn't use metadata. ←
17:17:13 <sandro> guus: But we have this requirement of a Provenance Example.
Guus Schreiber: But we have this requirement of a Provenance Example. ←
17:17:29 <sandro> guus: Someone mail me an example?
Guus Schreiber: Someone mail me an example? ←
17:17:40 <sandro> guus: We promised it to Prov WG
Guus Schreiber: We promised it to Prov WG ←
17:18:31 <sandro> guus: They do the stuff in the nanopublications example.
Guus Schreiber: They do the stuff in the nanopublications example. ←
17:18:51 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
17:19:22 <sandro> guus: Hopefully we can decide on two notes next week; maybe PR for syntax specs.
Guus Schreiber: Hopefully we can decide on two notes next week; maybe PR for syntax specs. ←
17:19:24 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
17:19:25 <Zakim> -??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P21 ←
17:19:25 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
17:19:26 <sandro> ADJOURNED
ADJOURNED ←
17:19:27 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
17:19:28 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
17:19:28 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
17:19:30 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
17:19:31 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
17:19:32 <Zakim> -markus
Zakim IRC Bot: -markus ←
17:19:34 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
17:19:36 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
17:19:38 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
17:20:03 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting ←
17:20:03 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
17:20:03 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, Sandro, AZ, David_Wood, Ivan, yvesr, TallTed, markus, gkellogg, pchampin, ericP, zwu2, [IPcaller],
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, Sandro, AZ, David_Wood, Ivan, yvesr, TallTed, markus, gkellogg, pchampin, ericP, zwu2, [IPcaller], ←
17:20:06 <Zakim> ... PatH, Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: ... PatH, Arnaud ←
17:20:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
17:20:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot ←
17:20:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
17:20:12 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-rdf-wg-actions.rdf : ←
17:20:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: guus send reminders for comments 1 and 2 [1]
ACTION: guus send reminders for comments 1 and 2 [1] ←
17:20:12 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-rdf-wg-irc#T16-38-52
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-rdf-wg-irc#T16-38-52 ←
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