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Chatlog 2011-03-30
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14:51:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg 14:51:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-rdf-wg-irc 14:51:23 <gavinc> rrsagent, make records public 14:51:44 <gavinc> Scribe: gavinc 14:53:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg 14:53:44 <hsbauer> hsbauer has joined #rdf-wg 14:53:54 <gavinc> zakim, this is rdfwg 14:53:54 <Zakim> ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM # 14:54:46 <gavinc> 73394 14:55:27 <SteveH__> SteveH__ has joined #rdf-wg 14:55:56 <Zakim> +??P19 14:56:02 <mbrunati> mbrunati has joined #rdf-wg 14:56:04 <Zakim> +Tony 14:56:07 <yvesr> Zakim, +??P19 is yvesr 14:56:07 <Zakim> sorry, yvesr, I do not recognize a party named '+??P19' 14:56:13 <yvesr> Zakim, P19 is yvesr 14:56:13 <Zakim> sorry, yvesr, I do not recognize a party named 'P19' 14:56:32 <Zakim> +??P21 14:56:36 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P19 is yvesr 14:56:36 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it 14:56:39 <SteveH__> Zakim, ??P21 is me 14:56:39 <Zakim> +SteveH__; got it 14:57:01 <gavinc> zakim, who is here 14:57:01 <Zakim> gavinc, you need to end that query with '?' 14:57:03 <gavinc> zakim, who is here? 14:57:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.707.861.aaaa, yvesr, Tony, SteveH__ 14:57:14 <gavinc> zakim, +1.707 is me 14:57:14 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it 14:57:17 <Zakim> +David 14:57:19 <yvesr> Zakim, mute me 14:57:19 <Zakim> yvesr should now be muted 14:57:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 14:58:17 <mbrunati> zakim, [IPCaller] is me 14:58:17 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it 14:58:21 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rdf-wg 14:59:10 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg 14:59:17 <Zakim> + +20598aabb 14:59:18 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres 14:59:34 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby 14:59:38 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider 14:59:40 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg 14:59:50 <ericP> ericP has joined #rdf-wg 14:59:54 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg 14:59:58 <Zakim> +zwu2 15:00:03 <Zakim> +EricP 15:00:11 <zwu2> zakim, mute me 15:00:11 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted 15:00:13 <AndyS> zakim, what is the conference code? 15:00:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), AndyS 15:00:26 <AndyS> zakim, thank you 15:00:26 <Zakim> you are very welcome, AndyS 15:00:41 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg 15:00:47 <davidwood> Chair: Guus Schreiber 15:00:51 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg 15:00:54 <Zakim> +Sandro 15:01:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 15:01:05 <cmatheus> cmatheus has joined #rdf-wg 15:01:14 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me 15:01:14 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 15:01:20 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aacc 15:01:24 <davidwood> zakim, who is here? 15:01:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, yvesr (muted), Tony, SteveH__, David, mbrunati, +20598aabb, AxelPolleres, OlivierCorby, Peter_Patel-Schneider, zwu2 (muted), EricP, Sandro, AndyS, 15:01:31 <Zakim> ... +1.443.212.aacc 15:01:45 <gavinc> zakim, mute me 15:01:45 <Zakim> gavinc should now be muted 15:01:49 <AlexHall> zakim, +1.443.212.aacc is me 15:01:49 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it 15:02:06 <gavinc> zakim, unmute me 15:02:06 <Zakim> gavinc should no longer be muted 15:02:20 <hsbauer> zakim, who is on the call? 15:02:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, yvesr (muted), Tony, SteveH__, David, mbrunati, +20598aabb, AxelPolleres, OlivierCorby, Peter_Patel-Schneider, zwu2 (muted), EricP, Sandro, AndyS, 15:02:24 <Zakim> ... AlexHall 15:02:40 <gavinc> Topic: Admin 15:03:11 <Zakim> +Ronald 15:03:17 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise? 15:03:28 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +20598aabb (22%) 15:03:31 <AZ> Zakim, I think Ronald is me 15:03:31 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I think Ronald is me', AZ 15:03:42 <AZ> Zakim, Ronald is me 15:03:42 <Zakim> +AZ; got it 15:03:47 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise? 15:03:58 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 15:04:02 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise? 15:04:07 <zwu2> subway? 15:04:12 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +20598aabb (28%) 15:04:14 <Zakim> +??P5 15:04:17 <Zakim> +??P8 15:04:18 <sandro> zakim, mute aabb 15:04:18 <Zakim> +20598aabb should now be muted 15:04:25 <zwu2> :) 15:04:27 <AZ> zakim, mute me 15:04:27 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted 15:04:27 <sandro> zakim, unmute aabb 15:04:29 <Zakim> +20598aabb should no longer be muted 15:04:40 <sandro> AZ, you were making the noise. 15:04:46 <webr3> Zakim, i am ??P8 15:04:46 <Zakim> +webr3; got it 15:04:53 <Zakim> +Souri_ 15:05:11 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg 15:05:28 <gavinc> Guus: Proposing accepting minutes, no objections, accepted. 15:05:35 <hsbauer> Sorry looks like i was not marked present. 15:05:41 <pfps> Minutes OK, but we should figure out who Tony is. 15:06:16 <hsbauer> My name didn't make the list 15:06:28 <gavinc> zakim, who is here 15:06:28 <Zakim> gavinc, you need to end that query with '?' 15:06:30 <gavinc> zakim, who is here? 15:06:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, yvesr (muted), Tony, SteveH__, David, mbrunati, +20598aabb, AxelPolleres, OlivierCorby, Peter_Patel-Schneider, zwu2 (muted), EricP, Sandro, AndyS, 15:06:36 <Zakim> ... AlexHall, AZ (muted), ??P5, webr3, Souri_ 15:07:02 <gavinc> Subtopic: Actions 15:07:15 <webr3> thomas sent regrets too 15:07:28 <gavinc> Guus: Most people with actions are not here. 15:07:57 <gavinc> Guus: Richard did Nathans action, group JOSN use cases on wiki 15:08:00 <sandro> close action-22 15:08:01 <trackbot> ACTION-22 Group json use cases on wiki closed 15:08:13 <Zakim> + +1.850.377.aadd 15:08:25 <gavinc> Subtopic: F2F1 15:08:40 <Souri> regrets for F2F 15:08:44 <gavinc> Guus: Has everyone confirmed attendance? 15:09:05 <cmatheus> Zakim, i am ??P5 15:09:05 <Zakim> +cmatheus; got it 15:09:12 <gavinc> Guus: Some people still haven't RSVP'd 15:09:21 <pathayes> pathayes has joined #rdf-wg 15:09:26 <gavinc> Guus: Remote will be hard with timezones. 15:09:34 <Souri> well, I'll remotely attend the audio portion, if we have a tel# 15:09:44 <gavinc> Topic: Turtle Task Force 15:10:00 <Souri> q+ 15:10:01 <pathayes> apologies for 10 mins late. 15:10:20 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products/3 15:10:26 <gavinc> Guus: Only two open issues, likely need more 15:10:44 <gavinc> Guus: ??? had a thread on Turtle issues. 15:10:57 <sandro> s/???/Peter and Eric/ 15:11:25 <gavinc> Eric: We need a mapping from Turtle to Triples 15:11:57 <gavinc> Sandro: Are we going to produce such a mapping? 15:12:02 <sandro> s/Eric/Peter/ 15:12:02 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/#sec-parsing Editor's Draft to which pfps referred 15:12:17 <ericP> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008Jan/0128 15:12:35 <sandro> s/Are we/Maybe the ISSUE is: Are we/ 15:13:17 <gavinc> Eric: Recursive or linear definition? How does concatenation work? 15:13:24 <Souri> q- 15:14:49 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Mar/0693.html 15:15:05 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.30 15:15:09 <gavinc> Guus: Can see a perpose for both of them 15:15:11 <gavinc> Guus: Can see a purpose for both of them. Might mean adding an appendix or section to current document. 15:15:12 <gavinc> Eric: Was going to code up both, but sprained wrist 15:15:14 <gavinc> Guus: Is that do able? 15:15:15 <gavinc> Peter: I am only interested in having a good spec. I have my own ideas on what is best, but think having more then one way is worse. 15:15:17 <pfps> I don't want to have two ways to turn Turtle to triples. 15:15:35 <gavinc> Eric: It is somewhat distracting to have two 15:15:40 <gavinc> Peter: Agree. 15:16:09 <gavinc> Guus: Is there a way to work this out? 15:16:15 <sandro> q? 15:16:28 <gavinc> Eric: I don't think either of us think the other is wrong. 15:16:33 <gavinc> Peter: Just misguided 15:17:02 <gavinc> Pat: Are we sure they are different? 15:17:39 <gavinc> ???: Sounds like we have agreement, accept for agreement 15:17:45 <sandro> s/???/Pat/ 15:18:00 <webr3> general note: pfps' approach is perhaps more similar to other well used specs (html and webapps ones) and thus may be more familiar to readers 15:19:49 <gavinc> Peter: A good spec doesn't have different interpretations. A recipe often does. 15:20:25 <gavinc> Eric: My main objection is to the recursive method vs the linner method 15:20:42 <sandro> andy: A good set of test cases will help 15:20:59 <webr3> s/linner/linear 15:21:22 <gavinc> AndyS: What happens around BNodes, what happens around escaping 15:21:24 <sandro> andy: layering -- escaping, identifying terminals, etc 15:22:22 <ericP> q+ 15:22:34 <ericP> q- 15:22:40 <gavinc> AndyS: Deifine how each part is converted into each bit of a triple so that it can be reused (??) 15:23:44 <gavinc> EricP: Using this grammer in TriG. Notion of reusing the grammer was part of the reason for giving it a linear parsing model. So that it could be reused in cases where there is a document after. Stole what I could from SPARQL 15:24:04 <gavinc> EricP: Reuse of shared understanding from one spec or another 15:24:40 <sandro> andy: Yes, sharing between SPARQL and Turtle spec is good. 15:24:45 <webr3> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008Jan/0128 this one 15:25:01 <yvesr> +1 15:25:08 <gavinc> Sandro: Reusing and sharing grammer? 15:25:12 <ericP> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008Jan/0128 pfps's mapping from Turtle grammar to an RDF graph 15:25:15 <gavinc> Peter: There is no grammer in mine. 15:25:29 <gavinc> Peter: It takes the AST, and turns the AST into triples 15:25:50 <gavinc> Peter: Takes AST, silent to sequences, silent to Turtle doc 15:26:30 <gavinc> Sandro: Add Peters spec to Turtle document? 15:26:37 <gavinc> s/Sandro/Guus 15:26:51 <gavinc> Peter: Silly to have a recipe and then a spec 15:26:59 <gavinc> Eric: Both are recipes 15:27:12 <gavinc> Peter: Silly have a ??? followed by a ??? 15:27:46 <pfps> s/???/procedural spec/ s/???/non-procedural spec/ 15:27:48 <sandro> eric: Who has looked at both of these? 15:28:06 <sandro> gavin: I did. 15:28:12 <sandro> andy: As did I 15:28:24 <sandro> gavin: I got stuck on how whitespace is to be handled in Turtle. 15:28:39 <sandro> gavin: Got it mostly working, but I have no idea if this is correct. 15:28:52 <webr3> 10. 15:29:02 <Guus> q? 15:29:27 <AndyS> My parser does tokenization then parsing -- and it's streaming so working on a unit of same-subject makes sense. 15:29:27 <sandro> ISSUE: How do we parse "18." in Turtle? 15:29:28 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-18 - How do we parse "18." in Turtle? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/18/edit . 15:29:50 <yvesr> ah - i thougt i raised that one but must have forgot 15:30:16 <yvesr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Feb/0131.html 15:30:38 <gavinc> Guus: Peter do you mind being on Turtle TF? 15:30:47 <gavinc> Peter: I like Graphs more then Turtle ;) 15:31:28 <yvesr> i can edit the issue 15:31:40 <gavinc> Guus: Two other issues with Turtle 15:31:47 <yvesr> (ISSUE-18) 15:32:20 <gavinc> Eric: I think all the terminals have an s at the end of them are supposed to be defined in the sparql spec. 15:32:35 <gavinc> Eric: Lexical tokens are all the same as SPARQL 15:32:41 <sandro> eric: re ISSUE-1 I think all the terminals have a link back to the SPARQL spec, except BASE and PREFIX. A few of the lower level productions are different, but the lack of variables makes it difference. 15:32:42 <AndyS> close but not the same e.g. [ :p 123 ] . 15:33:07 <AndyS> close but not the same e.g. [ ns:property 123 ] . (due to Ivan) 15:33:08 <SteveH> INSER DATA { } doesn't allow variables does it? 15:33:10 <sandro> ISSUE: Should TURTLE allow triples like "[ :p 123 ]." as SPARQL does ? 15:33:10 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-19 - Should TURTLE allow triples like "[ :p 123 ]." as SPARQL does ? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/19/edit . 15:33:12 <SteveH> *INSERT 15:33:44 <AndyS> Same with "(1 2 3) ." -- uncommon 15:33:49 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/#sec-grammar-grammar 15:34:16 <webr3> the diagram from n3 is quite good [related] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn 15:34:39 <Souri> s/INSER DATA/INSERT DATA/ 15:34:57 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/#sec-diff-sparql 15:35:01 <gavinc> Sandro: How are the languages related? How do I get from one to the other? 15:35:16 <sandro> sandro: I want a complete and precise listing in this spec of how it differs from SPARQL. (base, prefix, variables, maybe terms - as - triples) 15:35:39 <AndyS> SPARQL grammar cheats - just says "don't use variables" -- not part of formal grammar (grammar explosion) 15:36:28 <sandro> sandro: just the bit of SPARQL that INSERT { ... } 15:37:06 <sandro> sandro: it's smaller than BGP, it's just the INSERT part, not the WHERE part. 15:37:32 <AndyS> INSERT DATA can include GRAPH :-) 15:39:11 <SteveH> AndyS, true 15:39:28 <AlexHall> CONSTRUCT template then? 15:39:29 <sandro> sandro: why don't 6-16 have links to SPARQL? 15:39:40 <sandro> eric: they are very similar, but different eg in allowing variables. 15:39:57 <gavinc> Eric: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/#sec-grammer 4.4, numbers with s at the end are the same as SPARQL. 6-16 don't match as Turtle doesn't have variables 15:41:12 <sandro> peter: The SPARQL spec does the standard cheat of saying "you need whitespace where you need whitespace". ... a b 18. a b ... 15:41:33 <sandro> eric: greedy lexer consumes the dot, simpler solution. 15:41:34 <zwu2> agree 15:41:38 <yvesr> sandro: the turtle spec does the same... 15:41:50 <sandro> s/:/,/ 15:41:50 <yvesr> "White space (production ws) is used to separate two tokens which would otherwise be (mis-)recognized as one token" 15:42:05 <sandro> yes 15:42:09 <sandro> I hate that. 15:42:10 <AndyS> q+ 15:42:35 <sandro> gavin: i have an issue on that. I can parse everything, unless it's a double. I can't figure out how to parse what you just said. 15:43:08 <sandro> gavin: parser had to comment out the bit with numbers with dots in them. 15:43:15 <AndyS> double has an 'e' 15:43:22 <sandro> peter: typically, you do a greedy lexer, doing doubles and decimals. 15:43:40 <sandro> peter: just about every programming language has this. 15:44:19 <gavinc> gavin: https://github.com/norcalrdf/pymantic/blob/master/pymantic/parsers.py 15:44:20 <sandro> AndyS: re LALR(1) parser. I think we want to go for LL(1), actually, so it can be done via Recursive Descent. Still need the right tokenizer. 15:44:47 <sandro> ericP: I haven't noticed the difference manifesting for this. 15:45:24 <sandro> q+ 15:45:28 <AndyS> q- 15:46:00 <AndyS> q+ 15:46:10 <gavinc> Sandro: Speaking as user. Not a grammar geek. Don't want to have to put a space before the period. I don't care if makes the parser harder. 15:46:53 <sandro> peter: you only need to space after a number. 15:47:01 <sandro> sandro: so code puts a space there 15:47:16 <gavinc> AndyS: SPARQL allows for 18. to represent a number, the charter would not allow us to change that 15:47:24 <sandro> andy: SPARQL 1.0 for better or worse requires the space after a number, and SPARQL 1.1 by its charter can't change that. 15:47:36 <sandro> andy: I'm not saying it's a good decision, but that's where we are. 15:47:56 <gavinc> andy: Prefix names do not end in a . 15:47:59 <sandro> AndyS: Prefix names in SPARQL do not end with a . 15:48:01 <AndyS> ack AndyS 15:48:11 <sandro> ack sandro 15:48:21 <gavinc> Subtopic: Turtle and Triples 15:48:57 <SteveH> q+ 15:48:59 <gavinc> Guus: Deprecate N-Triples and just use Turtle? N-Triples developed for test cases. 15:49:21 <ericP> +1 to deprecating ntriples 15:49:31 <sandro> peter: Yes, get rid of N-Triples! 15:49:51 <zwu2> q+ 15:49:58 <zwu2> zakim, unmute me 15:49:58 <Zakim> zwu2 should no longer be muted 15:50:18 <gavinc> AndyS: Easier to put N-Triples into Turtle, used as a dump format and import format 15:50:25 <SteveH> +1 15:50:55 <AxelPolleres> 15:51:10 <sandro> eric: repeating AndyS: I'd like a standard around N-Triples, it is out there, it is used, lets put it on a standards basis. 15:51:11 <ericP> turtle: <http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/암스테르담> a <Foo> . 15:51:12 <ericP> ntriple: <http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%95%94%EC%8A%A4%ED%85%8C%EB%A5%B4%EB%8B%B4> a <Foo> . 15:51:28 <webr3> +1 to and a mime type 15:51:28 <ericP> q+ to discuss differences between turtle and ntriples 15:51:35 <pfps> what is required to turn an n-triples doc into a Turtle doc? 15:51:38 <sandro> sandro: Can it be done as a small section of the Turtle grammar, specifuing the restrictions? 15:51:44 <sandro> AndyS: Yes, and the mime type. 15:52:05 <webr3> pfps, nothing iirc 15:52:26 <sandro> sandro: would N-Triples be a sublanguage of Turtle? 15:52:29 <sandro> AndyS: Yes. 15:52:59 <sandro> AndyS: Could call it N-Turtle, if we want to distinguish it from N-Triples. # 15:53:35 <gavinc> +q to talk about N-Quads 15:53:38 <sandro> ericP: Difference is in IRIs. In N-triples, we we have to do percent-decoding. 15:53:52 <Guus> [sorry, wasn't looking at the q] 15:54:04 <webr3> ericP, we need it to be UTF-8 and a subset of turtle 15:54:13 <sandro> AndyS: I would make N-Turtle, and have it be utf-8. 15:54:44 <sandro> AndyS: I do come across utf-8 N-triples, and also ascii, with percent-encoding. 15:54:44 <webr3> +1 likewise, many didn't know it couldn't be ascii in a recent thread on semantic-web 15:54:56 <sandro> Eric: Some of it is broken, and which way do we want to unbreak it. 15:55:03 <sandro> +1 use IRIs 15:55:04 <AndyS> N-Turtle is preferrable UTF-8 15:55:04 <ericP> q- 15:55:04 <webr3> s/ascii/utf8 15:55:05 <ww> +1 and likewise for nquads 15:55:10 <sandro> Guus: +1 use IRIs 15:55:26 <m029206__> m029206__ has joined #rdf-wg 15:55:27 <sandro> steve:+1 Andy 15:55:37 <gavinc> SteveH: I agree with Andy. We should make N-Triples a subset of Turtle, give it a mimetype and make it UTF-8 15:55:39 <Zakim> -yvesr 15:56:03 <AndyS> Need a different name (RDF-data?) and explain that it's N-Triples made into a standard. 15:56:10 <gavinc> Yvesr: Oracle position, it's really easy to parse 15:56:17 <sandro> zwu2: Oracle uses N-Triples heavily. We don't want it deprecated. Yes, it's long but it's REALLY EASY TO PARSE. Folks zip it up. So backward compatibility is important to us. 15:56:50 <gavinc> zwu2: Existing N-Triples should be valid as well. 15:56:54 <sandro> guus: Oracle okay with using IRIs? 15:57:05 <sandro> zwu2: Yes, I think 15:57:08 <Zakim> +??P11 15:57:13 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P11 is yvesr 15:57:13 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it 15:57:26 <sandro> ericP: This change would affect the meaning of any NTriples documents with "%" in them. 15:57:42 <SteveH> q+ to disagree with ericP 15:57:44 <Souri> +1 to raising an issue 15:57:48 <ww> +q to ask rhetorcally if N-Turtle would be harder to parse than N-Triples, pace backwards compatibility 15:57:50 <zwu2> ack zwu2 15:57:54 <ww> -q 15:57:57 <zwu2> q- 15:58:28 <Guus> q? 15:58:28 <sandro> ACTION: AndyS to make concrete "N-Turtle" proposal 15:58:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Make concrete "N-Turtle" proposal [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-04-06]. 15:58:42 <ericP> text/ntriples+turtle would be consistent with RFC3023 §7 ¶1 15:58:43 <SteveH> ericP, I'm not sure http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntriples says you should decode %s 15:58:44 <SteveH> q- 15:59:09 <AndyS> +1 to Steve. 15:59:11 <sandro> SteveH: I'm not sure N-Triples doc says you need to unpack %-encoding 15:59:16 <gavinc> SteveH: N-Triples doesn't say you have to un % encode things 15:59:18 <sandro> Eric: Oh, that would be excellent 15:59:24 <Guus> ack gavinc 15:59:24 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to talk about N-Quads 15:59:35 <ww> Q-Turtle 15:59:43 <AndyS> NT has it's own esacaping via \u 15:59:49 <SteveH> yah 15:59:49 <sandro> q? 16:00:50 <sandro> sandro: basic non-answer is that N-Quads is part of the [GRAPHS] task force, and it hasn't made enough progress yet to know. 16:01:12 <gavinc> Guus: I think that's all the issues. Unless we missed something? 16:01:26 <AndyS> raise issue against product turtle so we come back to it when [graph] done with it 16:01:42 <gavinc> Sandro: Issue-19, diffrence between SPARQL and Turtle. In N3 and SPARQL you can do a BNode production... you can make a statement by just having it [] 16:01:53 <AndyS> e.g. [ ns:foo 132 ; ns:bar ] . 16:02:37 <gavinc> AndyS: Yes, it should be part of Turtle. 16:02:45 <sandro> Pat: me too. 16:02:50 <gavinc> Pat: Yes, it should be in Turtle. 16:02:51 <ericP> sounds good to me 16:02:57 <webr3> +1 16:03:09 <SteveH> raptor parses it too, fwiw 16:03:15 <AndyS> Be careful that "[] ." does no parse 16:03:20 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdf-wg 16:03:32 <AndyS> Be careful that "[] ." does not parse 16:03:40 <pfps> I'll speak up here. 16:03:49 <SteveH> [ <foo> 132 ; <bar> 23 ] . = two triples in raptor 16:04:11 <gavinc> Gavin: I think most parsers work this way already 16:04:17 <gavinc> Sandro: Maybe gather more data? 16:04:20 <Zakim> -EricP 16:04:25 <AndyS> Jena RIOT accepts it (as 2 triples) 16:04:46 <sandro> excellent, if Jena and Raptor and rdflib are happy with it, I'm happy with it. :-) 16:04:48 <webr3> my parsers do too, two triples. 16:04:58 <gavinc> Guus: I hope we can make some progress on this at the F2F 16:05:02 <pathayes> the parsers speak... 16:05:22 <gavinc> Topic: General Issues 16:05:36 <gavinc> Sandro: Should we talk more about the F2F? 16:05:57 <gavinc> Guus: We won't get to these general issues today. 16:06:32 <gavinc> Guus: Are there any women in this WG? 16:06:34 <gavinc> Gavin: No. 16:06:42 <Zakim> -cmatheus 16:07:11 <AndyS> ACTION: Andy to write collect issues and write a proposal standardizing N-Triples. 16:07:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Write collect issues and write a proposal standardizing N-Triples. [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-04-06]. 16:07:25 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #rdf-wg 16:07:53 <mbrunati> me on JSON TF, I'll try to do my best .) for the F2F 16:08:14 <Zakim> -webr3 16:08:26 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rdf-wg 16:09:06 <gavinc> Sandro: Job of the presentor is to make sure the people at the F2F have a good idea of what's going on 16:09:29 <pathayes> you dont have to use powerpoint.... 16:09:57 <gavinc> SteveH: Yeah, I'll do the Turtle TF presentation at the F2F 16:10:42 <gavinc> Guus: Richard in the best position to give this overview 16:11:04 <gavinc> s/this/Graph 16:11:52 <gavinc> Guus: JSON, hard to summarize 16:11:58 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #rdf-wg 16:12:05 <Zakim> -yvesr 16:12:08 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rdf-wg 16:13:02 <gavinc> Sandro: I'll ask Thomas to present JSON TF at the F2F 16:13:14 <gavinc> Guus: Good to do a summary of the Other Things. 16:13:46 <gavinc> Sandro: Willing to present deprecation issues 16:13:59 <gavinc> Sandro: Make Ivan do the other ones. 16:14:32 <Guus> q? 16:14:45 <gavinc> Guus: Thank you all. See you next week. 16:14:51 <Zakim> - +1.850.377.aadd 16:14:58 <zwu2> bye 16:15:02 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres 16:15:03 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby 16:15:06 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #rdf-wg 16:15:07 <Zakim> -zwu2 16:15:08 <cmatheus> cmatheus has left #rdf-wg 16:15:08 <Zakim> -AlexHall 16:15:09 <AZ> bye 16:15:14 <Zakim> -SteveH__ 16:15:56 <Zakim> -AZ # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000404