W3C

Results of Questionnaire WCAG2ICT - Review proposed changes (since May 16)

The results of this questionnaire are available to anybody. In addition, answers are sent to the following email address: maryjom@us.ibm.com

This questionnaire was open from 2024-05-21 to 2024-05-24.

8 answers have been received.

Jump to results for question:

  1. (1 of 3) Update definition of "closed functionality"
  2. (2 of 3) Update to "closed functionality" examples
  3. (3 of 3) Move statement from Key term "closed functionality" to "Comments on Closed Functionality"
  4. (1 of 2) General guidance - Note 8 of 1.4.10 Reflow
  5. (2 of 2) General guidance - Note 1 for 2.1.1 Keyboard
  6. (1 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed Functionality
  7. (2 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 1.3.4 Orientation
  8. (3 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 1.4.10 Reflow
  9. (4 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 2.1.1 Keyboard
  10. (5 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 2.4.2 Page Titled
  11. (6 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 3.3.1 Error Identification

1. (1 of 3) Update definition of "closed functionality"

NOTE: Since we are close to publishing, this survey will provide the original content vs. proposed changes - most of which are clarifications. Therefore survey answers will be to either leave as is, or merge in the proposed changes (with or without edits). The point is to avoid opening this or other content up for rewriting.


Review the proposed changes to the definition of "closed functionality" in PR 375 Key Terms file. You can read all of the proposed changes to the key term closed functionality in context. Then answer the first three questions of the survey regarding the proposed changes that are substantive (beyond simple editorial).

This is the first of 3 questions and focuses on the proposed change to the definition verbiage, repeated below.

Option 1: Original definition

closed functionality (as used in WCAG2ICT)

a property or characteristic that prevents users from attaching, installing, or using assistive technology


Option 2: Proposed updated definition

closed functionality (as used in WCAG2ICT)

a property or characteristic that prevents users from attaching, installing, or using assistive technology or the accessibility features built into platform software (operating systems, players, and other software that is between the software being evaluated and the user)


Indicate which option you prefer. If edits are needed, provide the detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Option 1, as-is. 3
Prefer Option 2, as-is. 1
Prefer Option 2, with edits (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.) 3

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (1 of 3) Update definition of "closed functionality"Comments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Option 1, as-is. Not sure what "players" or "other software" would be in the context of how option 2 is written.
Phil Day Prefer Option 1, as-is. I disagree with option 2 - a closed system may use (and in many cases, does use) built-in assistive technology or features of the platform software. Option 2 does not work.

For example, an ATM may use a text-to-speech (TTS) engine to provide private audio feedback. This TTS engine is within the closed system (i.e. part of the application software, or somewhere else in the software stack) and is needed to provide audio feedback, without the security of the system being compromised by 'bolting on' a 3rd party solution.
Sam Ogami Prefer Option 1, as-is. Option 1 is simple and to the point. Option 2 is long and makes it harder to read and could possibly limit situations that could also be closed functionality.
Bruce Bailey Prefer Option 2, as-is. I am also okay with 1, as-is.
Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Option 2, with edits (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.) I think the addition is important, as explained by Gregg. However I don't think that the text in brackets work.

In my opinion, it would be better to delete the text in brackets, and to add a "proper" definition of "platform software". A term that is used in WCAG2ICT

I suggest to use the definition from EN 301 549 (taken from ISO/IEC 13066):

*platform software*: collection of software components that runs on an underlying software or hardware layer, and that provides a set of software services to other software components that allows those applications to be isolated from the underlying software or hardware layer
Mike Pluke Prefer Option 2, with edits (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.) +1 to the edits proposed by Loïc.
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Option 2, with edits (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.) Option 3: Keep the definition as is -- but add a note
NOTE: Some mobile and other devices prevent installing AT but do have some AT or accessibility features built-in, making them have functionality that is open or closed depending on the type of AT being considered.
Mary Jo Mueller

2. (2 of 3) Update to "closed functionality" examples

This is the second question regarding proposed changes to the key term "closed functionality", specifically the Examples callout box. Use the links in the previous question to see the detailed changes in the PR and the in-context view of all changes being proposed. NOTE: If these edits are accepted, they would also be similarly changed as shown in the example callout box in the Comments on Closed Functionality section.


Option 1: Original bullet 2 in the examples

  • telephony devices such as IP phones, feature phones, smartphones, and phone-enabled tablets (although such devices are becoming increasingly open and/or supplying AT and accessibility features that software can rely upon to meet WCAG requirements.)

Option 2: Edit bullet 2, and move and rewrite the parenthetic content in the bullet as a Note after the list of examples

  • telephony devices such as internet-phones, feature phones, smartphones and phone-enabled tablets

NOTE: Some of these technologies, though closed to some external assistive technologies, often have extensive internal accessibility features that serve as AT that can be used by applications on these devices in the same way AT is used on fully open devices like desktop computers. Others are open to some types of assistive technology but not others. (Thus, we talk about “closed functionality” rather than closed products in this document.)


Indicate which option you prefer. If edits are needed, provide the detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Option 1, as-is. 2
Prefer Option 2, as-is. 1
Prefer Option 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.) 4

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (2 of 3) Update to "closed functionality" examplesComments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Option 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.) Use "Assistive Technology" vs. AT.
Phil Day Prefer Option 1, as-is. I could accept either. If we do take option 2, I would remove the last parenthetic statement.
Sam Ogami Prefer Option 1, as-is.
Bruce Bailey Prefer Option 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.) Option 2 is big improvement over the original!

I think the last sentence (the one in parenthesis) is not necessary. If we keep it, should "closed products" be in quotation marks? Should "talk about" be "write about"? The starting "Thus" strikes me as too informal and could be dropped.

Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Option 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.) I agree with edits from Chris and Bruce.
Mike Pluke Prefer Option 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.) I agree with Chris' edit.

I think that there is an important point in the last sentence (in brackets) that should not be lost. Perhaps it could be re-written as:

The commonly encountered term "closed products" is never used in this document as it fails to acknowledge the several ways that "closed functionality" can present itself.

This might even warrant an additional separate note.
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Option 2, as-is. Option 3: Change AT to assistive technology and drop the parenthetical sentence. in the description of the change write:

I have redrafted this item -- to include both Chris's and Bruce's edits, as well as Bruce and Loic's suggestion to drop the parenthetical sentence) Note also that this note is moved from just being on phones to the bottom of the list since it would apply to tablets and other devices that increasingly have access features but are not telephony addressing Gregg's comment.
Mary Jo Mueller

3. (3 of 3) Move statement from Key term "closed functionality" to "Comments on Closed Functionality"

This is the third and final question regarding possible guidance changes the key term "closed functionality". The last statement in the key term "closed functionality" section says:


Existing text says: These examples are explained more fully in the Comments on Closed Functionality section.


The problem is that we had switched to have the more brief examples in the Comments on Closed Functionality section, and the more detailed ones in the key term "closed functionality". So either this statement needs to moved to the same location in Comments on Closed Functionality section and changed to refer to the key term "closed functionality," or we simply remove the statement.

Review the following proposals:

Proposal 1: Remove the statement


Proposal 2: Move the statement to Comments on Closed Functionality, and edit

Edited text would say: These examples are explained more fully in the definition of closed functionality in the Key Terms section.

Indicate whether you agree with adding this note. If further edits are needed, provide the detailed edits in the survey or in the Google doc.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Proposal 1, to remove the cross-linking. 1
Prefer Proposal 2, as-is. 6
Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.)

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (3 of 3) Move statement from Key term "closed functionality" to "Comments on Closed Functionality"Comments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Proposal 2, as-is.
Phil Day Prefer Proposal 2, as-is.
Sam Ogami Prefer Proposal 1, to remove the cross-linking.
Bruce Bailey Prefer Proposal 2, as-is. I am also okay with Proposal 1, to remove the cross-linking.
Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Proposal 2, as-is.
Mike Pluke Prefer Proposal 2, as-is.
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Proposal 2, as-is.
Mary Jo Mueller

4. (1 of 2) General guidance - Note 8 of 1.4.10 Reflow

Here is a link to PR 375's changes to the comments by guideline and success criterion file so you can see all of the substantive changes and edits to proposed for this part of the document. This and the next question will cover proposed SC changes separately. To read the changes to the SCs in context, each question will give you a direct link to the pertinent SC's section in the built document.


This first question is about proposed changes to Applying 1.4.10 Reflow to Non-Web Documents and Software where you can read the proposed changes in-context. Excerpted text below shows the the original Note 8 vs. the proposed changes:


Option 1: Original Note 8 for 1.4.10 Reflow

Some software applications provide a mode of operation where reflow is possible, while other modes are unable to reflow. An example is a document authoring tool, which includes both a "print preview mode" (without reflow, for users to view the spatial formatting) and a "drafting view mode" where reflow is supported.


Option 2: Clarified Note 8 for 1.4.10 Reflow

Some software applications provide a mode of operation where reflow is possible, while other modes are unable to reflow. An example is a document authoring tool, which includes both a "print preview mode" (without reflow, for users to view the spatial formatting) and a "drafting view mode" where reflow is supported. Such software would satisfy this success criteria as long as there is no loss of information or functionality in the drafting view.


Indicate which option you prefer, and whether it can be incorporated as-is or needs edits. If edits are needed, be specific and provide them either in the PR or in this survey.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Option 1, leave current text as-is.
Prefer Option 2, as-is. 6
Prefer Option 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.)

(2 responses didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (1 of 2) General guidance - Note 8 of 1.4.10 ReflowComments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Phil Day Prefer Option 2, as-is. Would accept either
Sam Ogami
Bruce Bailey Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Mike Pluke Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Mary Jo Mueller

5. (2 of 2) General guidance - Note 1 for 2.1.1 Keyboard

This proposal is to modify Note 1 in the general guidance for 2.1.1 Keyboard. The changes appear in lines 386-389 of the PR file linked in the previous question.

Please review the updated content in-context (will appear as Notes 1 and 2) in Applying SC 2.1.1 Keyboard to Non-Web Documents and Software from PR 338.


Option 1: Original Note 1

Note 1: This does not imply that software always needs to directly support a keyboard or “keyboard interface”. Nor does it imply that software always needs to provide a soft keyboard. Underlying platform software may provide device independent input services to applications that enable operation via a keyboard. Software that supports operation via such platform device independent services would be operable by a keyboard and would comply.



Option 2: Edited Note 1 and split off first 2 sentences into Note 2

Note 1: Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to the interface between the software and any keyboard or keyboard substitute (i.e., this interface where the software accepts text or other keystroke input). Underlying platform software may provide device independent input services to applications that enable operation via such a keyboard interface. Software that supports operation via such platform device independent services would be operable via a keyboard interface and would satisfy the success criterion.

Note 2: This does not imply that software always needs to directly support a keyboard or “keyboard interface”. Nor does it imply that software always needs to provide a soft keyboard.


Also note that if changes in Option 2 are accepted, they will also be reflected in the section as shown in Applying "keyboard interface" to Non-Web Documents and Software.


Indicate which proposal you prefer and if any edits are needed.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Option 1, as-is. 1
Prefer Option 2, as-is. 2
Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) 5

Details

Responder (2 of 2) General guidance - Note 1 for 2.1.1 KeyboardComments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) Not sure what is meant by the i.e "This interface". Did we intend to use "an interface"? What is the context of "this" if we meant to use "this"?
Phil Day Prefer Option 2, as-is. Would accept either, but found option 2 easier to read.
Sam Ogami Prefer Option 1, as-is. Other recommendation would replace "soft keyboard" with "on-screen keyboard" that is easier to understand and more commonly used.
Bruce Bailey Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I agree with Chris's proposal (replace "this interface" by "an interface").
Mike Pluke Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I agree with Chris' edit.

I also think that Sam's proposal to "replace "soft keyboard" with "on-screen keyboard" is a good one. The term would be more easily understood by a wider audience and would avoid EN 301 549 (and Section 508?) having to agree/introduce a definition of what is meant by "soft keyboard".
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) Change "This interface" to "an interface" (per Chris)

HOWEVER do NOT change "on soft-keyboard" to "on-screen keyboard". It is only one type of soft keyboard. Speech recognition, morse code, ETRAN-eye coding, successive quartering and a host of other "software keyboards" or "soft keyboards" also exist and are meant to be included here. OK to use "software-keyboard" instead. We may need a note or to add a definition of "soft keyboard" to make it easy for EN 301 549 and 508 . In that case
DEFINITION
*Soft Keyboard*
any software that acts as a keyboard and generates output that is treated by other software like keystrokes from a keyboard.
NOTE: speech, eye-gaze, sip-and-puff, sounds, switches, and codes have all be used by soft-keyboards as input that generates "keystroke" output.
Mary Jo Mueller Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I like everyone's suggested edits so far and suggest we also insert "success criterion" to read: Note 2: This *success criterion* does not imply that software always needs to directly support a keyboard or “keyboard interface”. Nor does it imply that software always needs to provide a soft keyboard.

6. (1 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed Functionality

There are a few changes proposed for the SC Problematic for Closed Functionality file. This file shows the details of the changes that are the subject of the next few survey questions. You can read the changes in-context using this link to the built document's section SC Problematic for Closed Functionality

This is the first question regarding those proposed changes, focused on the introductory content, the 2nd paragraph. The proposed change is in line 6 of the file (link above), and excerpted out into the survey as options below.


Option 1: Original content

There are success criteria that can be problematic for developers of ICT with closed functionality. Some criteria discuss making information available in text (which can be read by assistive technologies), making it “programmatically determinable” (rendered by a user agent and readable by assistive technologies), or doing something else to make content compatible with assistive technologies. Where ICT with closed functionality doesn’t support use of assistive technology or the platform is not sophisticated enough to have an accessibility API, providing equivalent information and operation through another mechanism, such as functions built into the software that behave like assistive technology, would help meet the intent of these success criteria.


Option 2: Updated to add verbiage at the end of the paragraph

There are success criteria that can be problematic for developers of ICT with closed functionality. Some criteria discuss making information available in text (which can be read by assistive technologies), making it “programmatically determinable” (rendered by a user agent and readable by assistive technologies), or doing something else to make content compatible with assistive technologies. Where ICT with closed functionality doesn’t support use of assistive technology or the platform is not sophisticated enough to have an accessibility API, providing equivalent information and operation through another mechanism, such as functions built into the software that behave like the various assistive technologies, would help meet the intent of these success criteria – although this is challenging given the range of existing and emerging assistive technologies. Those trying to apply the WCAG success criteria to closed functionality will need to consider the wide variety of assistive technologies that are no longer available when product functionality is closed and the impact on those who rely on those assistive technologies.


Indicate which option you prefer. If edits are needed, provide the detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Proposal 1, as-is. 3
Prefer Proposal 2, as-is.
Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) 4

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (1 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed Functionality Comments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Proposal 1, as-is.
Phil Day Prefer Proposal 1, as-is.
Sam Ogami Prefer Proposal 1, as-is. The additional sentence is not needed. It is already stated better in Comments on Closed Functionality Section https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#comments-on-closed-functionality
Bruce Bailey Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) Change "platform is not sophisticated enough to have" to merely "platform does not have" -- since the extra qualifier is not needed.
Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I agree with Bruce's edit.
Mike Pluke Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I agree with Bruce's edit.
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) Agree with Bruce's edit.

RE Sam -- if that is so - then we should skip this section all together and just refer to the "Comments on" section.
But we should amend that discussion to include the concept of a wide range of assistive technologies.
Change
Where assistive technologies or user agents are not available to address the intent of these success criteria,
to
Where the wide range of assistive technologies or user agents are not available to address the intent of these success criteria as they are for web content,
Mary Jo Mueller

7. (2 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 1.3.4 Orientation

Using the same links as question 6, this question focuses on proposed edits to the 1.3.4 Orientation content in SC Problematic for Closed Functionality.


Option 1: Original content for 1.3.4 Orientation

1.3.4 Orientation - Products with closed functionality that have fixed-in-place displays or other limitations to modifying the physical display orientation are covered under the essential exception and are not required to provide support for orientation changes. See the note in the section Applying SC 1.3.4 Identify Input Purpose to Non-Web Documents and Software.


Option 2: Updated to add verbiage at the end of the paragraph

1.3.4 Orientation - Products with closed functionality that have fixed-in-place displays or other limitations to modifying the physical display orientation should be considered as examples that are covered under the essential exception. See the note in the section Applying SC 1.3.4 Identify Input Purpose to Non-Web Documents and Software.


Indicate which option you prefer. If edits are needed, provide the detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Option 1, as-is. 3
Prefer Proposal 2, as-is. 2
Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) 2

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (2 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 1.3.4 OrientationComments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Option 1, as-is.
Phil Day Prefer Option 1, as-is.
Sam Ogami Prefer Option 1, as-is.
Bruce Bailey Prefer Proposal 2, as-is.
Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Proposal 2, as-is. But I can accept proposal 1
Mike Pluke Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I could also accept Option 1.

But I am now struggling with the term "fixed in place displays" (is this in contrast to some of my breadboarded hobby projects where the display is hanging off a ribbon cable :-). Surely, the display of a smartphone is "fixed in place" on that product - hopefully! It is the **product** being fixed in place that is the important issue. Perhaps the following rewrite would make more sense:

"Products that do not allow the physical display orientation to be modified, such as when the product is fixed in place, should be considered ..."
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) OPTIONS 1 is not really an option since it states it as a fact (adding an exception) and thus is normative - which we cannot do. This should have been stated in the introduction. We are looking to solve a problem with a new version.
OPTION 3: based on Mike Pluke's suggestion solves this and is much better. Being closed is not the issue.

1.3.4 Orientation - Products that do not allow the physical display orientation to be modified, such as when the product is fixed in place, should be considered as examples that are covered under the essential exception. See the note in the section Applying SC 1.3.4 Identify Input Purpose to Non-Web Documents and Software.
Mary Jo Mueller

8. (3 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 1.4.10 Reflow

Using the same links as question 6, this question focuses on proposed edits to the 1.4.10 Reflow content in SC Problematic for Closed Functionality.


Option 1: Original content for 1.4.10 Reflow

1.4.10 Reflow - Some software on ICT with closed functionality does not support scrolling content or changing the viewport (examples include software for self-service transaction machines or kiosks). Therefore, there would be no content to which this success criterion applies, meaning the success criterion would be satisfied. Instead, other requirements exist outside of WCAG to address use by persons with low vision (including but not limited to using sufficiently large text and single screen designs).


Option 2: Updated to soften last sentence regarding existence of requirements

1.4.10 Reflow - Some software on ICT with closed functionality does not support scrolling content or changing the viewport (examples include software for self-service transaction machines or kiosks). Therefore, there would be no content to which this success criterion applies, meaning the success criterion would be satisfied. Instead, other requirements outside of WCAG would be needed to address use by persons with low vision (including but not limited to using sufficiently large text).


Indicate which option you prefer. If edits are needed, provide the detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Option 1, as-is. 1
Prefer Option 2, as-is. 6
Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.)

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (3 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 1.4.10 ReflowComments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Option 1, as-is.
Phil Day Prefer Option 2, as-is. Could accept either, but option 2 read slightly better
Sam Ogami Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Bruce Bailey Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Mike Pluke Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Option 2, as-is. looks like general agreement. If we wanted to keep option 1 we would need a note explaining what "single screen design" means and now it solves the problem. Large print is a solution, but "single screen designs" by themselves are not - as is implied by current language. (In fact Large print would be a solution with or without scrolling)
Mary Jo Mueller

9. (4 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 2.1.1 Keyboard

Using the same links as question 6, this question focuses on proposed edits to the 2.1.1 Keyboard content in SC Problematic for Closed Functionality.


Option 1: Original content for 2.1.1 Keyboard

2.1.1 Keyboard - Assumes operation via a keyboard interface which also allows for alternative input devices. When a product with closed functionality does not have a standard keyboard or an alternative input device cannot be connected, it may not be possible to satisfy this success criterion. It may be possible to address some user needs (such as offering input methods that support users with low vision, without vision, or limited manual dexterity).


Option 2: Make changes to 2nd sentence (aligned with proposed changes to general guidance)

2.1.1 Keyboard - Assumes operation via a keyboard interface which also allows for alternative input devices. When a product with closed functionality does not have a standard keyboard, or an alternative keyboard (hardware or software) cannot be connected that provides keyboard-like input, it may not be possible to satisfy this success criterion. It may be possible to address some user needs (such as offering input methods that support users with low vision, without vision, or limited manual dexterity).


Indicate which option you prefer. If edits are needed, provide the detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Option 1, as-is. 1
Prefer Option 2, as-is. 5
Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) 1

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (4 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 2.1.1 KeyboardComments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Phil Day Prefer Option 2, as-is. Could accept either
Sam Ogami Prefer Option 1, as-is.
Bruce Bailey Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Option 2, as-is.
Mike Pluke Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I think that words in the middle sentence should be re-arranged to make it read better:

"When a product with closed functionality does not have a standard keyboard, or an alternative keyboard (hardware or software) that provides keyboard-like input cannot be connected, it may not be possible to satisfy this success criterion."
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Option 2, as-is. Use Mike's rewording (easier to read and uses the same words as option 2). Also change WHICH to THAT in the first sentence (bad grammar).
Mary Jo Mueller

10. (5 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 2.4.2 Page Titled

Using the same links as question 6 (the one marked with 1 of 6), this question focuses on proposed edits to the 2.4.2 Page Titled content in SC Problematic for Closed Functionality.


Option 1: Original content for 2.4.2 Page Titled

2.4.2 Page Titled - Where the software is part of a product that provides a single function, or has a menu-driven interface, there is no need for a title and the intent of this success criterion would be met.


Option 2: Soften language regarding "there is no need for a title"

2.4.2 Page Titled - Where the software is part of a product that provides a single function, or has a menu-driven interface, we suggest there is no need for a title.


Indicate which option you prefer. If edits are needed, provide the detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Option 1, as-is. 4
Prefer Option 2, as-is. 1
Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) 2

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (5 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 2.4.2 Page TitledComments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Option 1, as-is. (4 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 2.4.2 Page Titled should be (5 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 2.4.2 Page Titled when we discuss this in the minutes.
Phil Day Prefer Option 1, as-is. Prefer option 1.
If we do go with option 2, then who is this 'we'? May need rewording.
Sam Ogami Prefer Option 1, as-is.
Bruce Bailey Prefer Option 1, as-is.
Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I understand that option 1 is normative... but then option 2 is strange (as pointed out by Phil).

I suggest a rewrite based on option 1, that focuses on the "would be met" idea, and is less about the title.

2.4.2 Page Titled - Where the software is part of a product that provides a single function, or has a menu-driven interface, **the intent of this success criterion would be met without needing and explicit title.**

Mike Pluke Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I agree with Loïc's edit.
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Option 2, as-is.
OPTION 1 is not really an option since it is a normative statement and we are not allowed to do that.

this should be explained in the intro to the question.
Mary Jo Mueller

11. (6 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 3.3.1 Error Identification

Using the same links as question 6 (the one marked with 1 of 6), this question focuses on proposed edits to the 3.3.1 Error Identification content in SC Problematic for Closed Functionality.


Option 1: Original content for 3.3.1 Error Identification

3.3.1 Error Identification - It is important for errors that can be detected to be described to the user; for ICT with closed functionality, the error description doesn’t have to be provided in text, as defined in WCAG 2.


Option 2: Clarify "programmatically determinable text" and add phrasing about alternatives in multiple forms

3.3.1 Error Identification - It is important for errors that can be detected to be described to the user; for ICT with closed functionality, the error description doesn’t have to be provided in programmatically determinable text, as defined in WCAG 2 (but it should be available in multiple forms - as all content should be.)


Indicate which option you prefer. If edits are needed, provide the detailed edits in the survey or in the PR.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Prefer Option 1, as-is. 2
Prefer Option 2, as-is. 3
Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) 2

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder (6 of 6) SC Problematic for Closed - 3.3.1 Error IdentificationComments
Chris Loiselle Prefer Option 2, as-is. If we are including the "multiple forms" text phrasing, then give examples of what "multiple forms" means. For example, "such as, but not limited to X, Y, Z ".
Phil Day Prefer Option 1, as-is. Found option 1 to be easier to read, but I could accept option 2.
Sam Ogami Prefer Option 1, as-is.
Bruce Bailey Prefer Option 2, as-is. I am of the opinion that it would better for Option 2 to stop at the word "text" because "as defined in WCAG" is not needed (because of adding "programmatically determinable" before the word text, and the information in parenthesis begs a question about what multiple forms?

Option 2 minor typo: Period should be after (not before) the right parenthesis.

Loïc Martínez Normand Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I agree with Bruce's edits: (1) to delete "as defined in WCAG 2" and (2) to have the period after the right parenthesis.
Mike Pluke Prefer Proposal 2, with edits. (Provide detailed edits in the survey or the PR.) I agree with Bruce's edits.
Gregg Vanderheiden Prefer Option 2, as-is. I like Bruce's edit but it kind of sounds like -- it doesn't need to be in programmatically determined text. So you are off the hook for error messages.
(also agree with dropping parenthetical)

Suggest instead that it read
3.3.1 Error Identification - It is important for errors that can be detected to be described to the user; for ICT with closed functionality, providing the the error description in programmatically determinable text would not solve the problem.
Mary Jo Mueller

More details on responses

  • Chris Loiselle: last responded on 22, May 2024 at 14:19 (UTC)
  • Phil Day: last responded on 22, May 2024 at 16:51 (UTC)
  • Sam Ogami: last responded on 22, May 2024 at 17:19 (UTC)
  • Bruce Bailey: last responded on 22, May 2024 at 20:51 (UTC)
  • Loïc Martínez Normand: last responded on 22, May 2024 at 22:35 (UTC)
  • Mike Pluke: last responded on 23, May 2024 at 11:18 (UTC)
  • Gregg Vanderheiden: last responded on 23, May 2024 at 17:25 (UTC)
  • Mary Jo Mueller: last responded on 23, May 2024 at 17:39 (UTC)

Non-responders

The following persons have not answered the questionnaire:

  1. Shadi Abou-Zahra
  2. Mitchell Evan
  3. Charles Adams
  4. Daniel Montalvo
  5. Fernanda Bonnin
  6. Shawn Thompson
  7. Olivia Hogan-Stark
  8. Laura Miller
  9. Anastasia Lanz
  10. Devanshu Chandra
  11. Bryan Trogdon
  12. Thorsten Katzmann
  13. Tony Holland
  14. Kent Boucher

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