IRC log of ag on 2025-04-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:09:49 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #ag
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/04/08-ag-irc
- 14:09:53 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 14:09:54 [Zakim]
- Meeting: AGWG Teleconference
- 14:10:07 [Chuck]
- chair: Chuck
- 14:10:21 [Chuck]
- meeting: AGWG-2025-04-08
- 14:10:29 [Chuck]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 14:10:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/08-ag-minutes.html Chuck
- 14:10:38 [Chuck]
- regrets: Patrick Lauke, Steve Faulkner, Todd Libby
- 14:10:40 [Chuck]
- zakim, clear agenda
- 14:10:40 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 14:10:55 [Chuck]
- agenda+ Items https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/301 and definitions scratchpad
- 14:11:03 [Chuck]
- agenda+ Task Flows / Processes https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/294
- 14:11:08 [Chuck]
- agenda+ Subgroup work
- 14:11:22 [kevin]
- regrets+ Kevin, Hidde
- 14:25:03 [Chuck]
- regrets+ Scott O'Hara
- 14:37:35 [Chuck]
- regrets+ Alastair Campbell
- 14:46:25 [filippo-zorzi]
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- 14:49:54 [Chuck]
- regrets+ Christopher Loiselle
- 14:53:14 [bruce_bailey]
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- 14:58:25 [Francis_Storr]
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- 15:00:15 [Jennie_Delisi]
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- present+
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- present+
- 15:00:58 [Francis_Storr]
- present+
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- 15:02:36 [bruce_bailey]
- present+
- 15:02:39 [gpellegrino]
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- 15:02:43 [CHall]
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- 15:02:49 [Chuck]
- zakim, pick a scribe
- 15:02:49 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose bruce_bailey
- 15:02:52 [Makoto6]
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- 15:02:53 [CHall]
- present+
- 15:02:55 [gpellegrino]
- present+
- 15:03:00 [joryc]
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- 15:03:04 [jtoles]
- present+
- 15:03:06 [Laura_Carlson]
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- 15:03:09 [bruce_bailey]
- scribe+
- 15:03:09 [Makoto6]
- present+ Makoto
- 15:03:10 [kenneth]
- present+
- 15:03:12 [joryc]
- present+
- 15:03:13 [Rachael]
- present+
- 15:03:20 [bruce_bailey]
- zakim, agenda
- 15:03:20 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'agenda', bruce_bailey
- 15:03:24 [Poornima]
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- 15:03:42 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: House keeping, anyone new to the call?
- 15:03:55 [Chuck]
- zakim, take up first item
- 15:03:55 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'take up first item', Chuck
- 15:03:57 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck polls chair and group for announcements
- 15:04:02 [giacomo-petri]
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- 15:04:02 [Chuck]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 15:04:02 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Items https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/301 and definitions scratchpad -- taken up [from Chuck]
- 15:04:06 [giacomo-petri]
- present+
- 15:04:09 [bruce_bailey]
- zakim, agenda?
- 15:04:09 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
- 15:04:10 [Zakim]
- 1. Items https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/301 and definitions scratchpad [from Chuck]
- 15:04:10 [Zakim]
- 2. Task Flows / Processes https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/294 [from Chuck]
- 15:04:10 [Zakim]
- 3. Subgroup work [from Chuck]
- 15:04:28 [Rachael]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TN5DrA__RZZ4u1Y1TIynlPCiC3nrFAaApTuLRtdPGqM/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.m2m0skpxxrio
- 15:04:37 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: Start with 301 discussion
- 15:04:45 [MJ]
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- 15:04:48 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael shares screen
- 15:04:49 [MJ]
- present+
- 15:05:36 [ashleyfirth]
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- 15:05:38 [Frankie]
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- 15:05:41 [mbgower]
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- 15:05:46 [julierawe]
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- 15:05:46 [Frankie]
- present+
- 15:05:49 [ashleyfirth]
- present+
- 15:05:51 [julierawe]
- present+
- 15:05:59 [Graham]
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- 15:06:04 [Graham]
- present+
- 15:06:09 [bruce_bailey]
- Where we left off last week, was discussing UI Unit or UI context got us closer to consensus, but we did not conclude conversion.
- 15:06:13 [mbgower]
- present+
- 15:06:17 [Laura_Carlson]
- present+ Laura_Carlson
- 15:06:36 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: we need something between interactive and static...
- 15:06:50 [bruce_bailey]
- Please weigh in on GitHub thread
- 15:07:32 [bruce_bailey]
- ... We need something which can be used for things like image or words in a sentence or paragraph...
- 15:07:45 [sarahhorton]
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- 15:07:52 [sarahhorton]
- present+
- 15:07:54 [Chuck]
- q+
- 15:07:55 [bruce_bailey]
- Components test at different granularity.
- 15:08:00 [Chuck]
- ack Ch
- 15:08:23 [bruce_bailey]
- We also need some backward compatibility with terms and concepts from WCAG 2.
- 15:08:34 [ShawnT]
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- 15:08:37 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: Are we hoping to finalize terms?
- 15:08:43 [ShawnT]
- present+
- 15:08:43 [Graham]
- q+ to say, unit examples are very varied in size, is it test / method specific that the word changes
- 15:08:56 [Chuck]
- ack Graham
- 15:08:56 [Zakim]
- Graham, you wanted to say, unit examples are very varied in size, is it test / method specific that the word changes
- 15:09:21 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: We need shared terminology and only change if needed, but still in the middle of process, and can return to this problem if needed.
- 15:09:54 [bruce_bailey]
- Graham: Could terms change depending on contest? For example media player has lots of parts to it.
- 15:10:07 [Chuck]
- q+
- 15:10:08 [Chuck]
- ack Ch
- 15:10:17 [bruce_bailey]
- ... I agree we are processing on list of terms.
- 15:10:18 [giacomo-petri]
- q+
- 15:10:38 [Rachael]
- q+
- 15:10:45 [Chuck]
- ack gia
- 15:10:51 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: Media player is good example of content versus UI component and need for nesting.
- 15:10:55 [Graham]
- q+ to say, could we add examples within each method / guidance part then perhaps?
- 15:11:03 [bruce_bailey]
- [scribe misses Chucks comment]
- 15:11:28 [Jon_avila]
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- 15:11:36 [Chuck]
- Chuck: Does this mean that the definition of "unit" depends on the guidance/method/test, and could change when another guidance/method/test is defined?
- 15:11:53 [Chuck]
- ack Rach
- 15:11:54 [bruce_bailey]
- giacomo-petri: Agree that we are on correct track, term like unit will mean something different for menu item for example.
- 15:11:55 [Jon_avila]
- Present+
- 15:11:57 [Chuck]
- ack Graham
- 15:11:57 [Zakim]
- Graham, you wanted to say, could we add examples within each method / guidance part then perhaps?
- 15:11:59 [Jennie_Delisi]
- * Each requirement defines unit for that specific requirement.
- 15:12:28 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: I think we can terms defined while having different implications for different methods or contexts.
- 15:12:47 [Chuck]
- q?
- 15:13:00 [Poornima]
- present+
- 15:13:14 [bruce_bailey]
- Graham: Going word by word in one context makes sense, but that would not make sense for a media player.
- 15:13:28 [bruce_bailey]
- [rachael making notes in Google doc]
- 15:13:56 [Chuck]
- q+
- 15:14:00 [Chuck]
- ack Ch
- 15:14:02 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: We can get something close-ish today, sub groups can start working with new vocabulary.
- 15:14:30 [Graham]
- q+ what is then a user interface component (is that a button group for example)?
- 15:14:47 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: Graham mentioned that examples will be very helpful, but are examples part of the working document and intended as part of definition?
- 15:15:14 [Chuck]
- q?
- 15:15:21 [bruce_bailey]
- Graham: If we are having flexibility, it gets tricky for subgroup working on things like media player.
- 15:15:40 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: I agree that examples will help inform our decision.
- 15:16:22 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: No one else in queue. So is everyone on call comfortable with working definition for today?
- 15:16:24 [sarahhorton]
- Have we looked at Atomic Design for inspiration? https://atomicdesign.bradfrost.com/chapter-2/
- 15:16:31 [Graham]
- q+
- 15:16:43 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: If we have UI Unit do we need Unit?
- 15:16:51 [bruce_bailey]
- q+ to say we need part
- 15:17:12 [Chuck]
- ack Graham
- 15:17:21 [bruce_bailey]
- Graham: Doe we have have vocabulary to talk about components and buttons?
- 15:17:26 [Chuck]
- scribe+ Chuck
- 15:17:44 [bruce_bailey]
- Graham: Doe we have have vocabulary to talk about components and buttons?
- 15:17:45 [Chuck]
- bruce_bailey: We still need to define "part".
- 15:17:45 [Rachael]
- q+
- 15:17:49 [Chuck]
- ack bru
- 15:17:49 [Zakim]
- bruce_bailey, you wanted to say we need part
- 15:17:54 [Chuck]
- ack Rach
- 15:18:17 [giacomo-petri]
- q+
- 15:18:33 [Graham]
- could we not say "element" (as that is pretty universal) for things like buttons. The lowest technology native part essentially and then "unit" becomes smallest testable part in each context?
- 15:18:43 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 15:18:52 [Chuck]
- bruce_bailey: The smallest testable piece is a button. In a media player, yes, we need nesting terms.
- 15:18:52 [Chuck]
- ack gia
- 15:20:00 [bruce_bailey]
- giacomo-petri: Talking about one of the examples, drop down menus, unit could be entire menu, collection of units within menu column contain, but also one atomic unit in the menu.
- 15:20:14 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:20:42 [bruce_bailey]
- ... If intention is to test container, we we need to be able to talk about pieces of the container.
- 15:21:09 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: The only thing that will be viable is whatever is being tested...
- 15:21:32 [Azlan]
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- 15:21:50 [Jen_G]
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- 15:21:51 [bruce_bailey]
- The navigation bar or skip link is going to be part of the page. All of the parts could be unit.
- 15:21:59 [Chuck]
- q?
- 15:22:03 [Azlan]
- present+
- 15:22:05 [Chuck]
- q?
- 15:22:16 [Jen_G]
- Present+
- 15:22:17 [bruce_bailey]
- ... Hopeless to say sub unit, sub sub unit, etc.
- 15:22:36 [Chuck]
- Poll: Does the group support continuing forward with development of the terms "Unit" and "Process" found on this definitions scratchpad: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TN5DrA__RZZ4u1Y1TIynlPCiC3nrFAaApTuLRtdPGqM/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.ti7ji79nncnn
- 15:22:50 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 15:22:50 [Rachael]
- q+
- 15:22:56 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:22:57 [Detlev]
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- 15:23:01 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: Rachel is capturing notes, do we have enough in the doc to let people go forward?
- 15:23:18 [Detlev]
- present+
- 15:23:28 [joryc]
- q+ to say smallest testable piece of content will always be any tag, right? Should we discuss unit as the scope of a test?
- 15:23:36 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: Lets call it something like evaluation unit or something that is not a plain english word...
- 15:24:06 [bruce_bailey]
- ... we could have Evaluation Unit or evalu-unit but it needs to be unique...
- 15:24:15 [Detlev]
- q+
- 15:24:19 [Chuck]
- ack Rach
- 15:24:36 [bruce_bailey]
- ... a button could be both unit and a UI Unit and it will be confusing.
- 15:24:39 [mbgower]
- "unit" seems relatively safe to me
- 15:24:43 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 15:24:56 [Chuck]
- ack jory
- 15:24:56 [Zakim]
- joryc, you wanted to say smallest testable piece of content will always be any tag, right? Should we discuss unit as the scope of a test?
- 15:25:12 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: I am okay with trying to use a particular term, and that can be an option for the poll.
- 15:25:56 [Chuck]
- q?
- 15:25:58 [bruce_bailey]
- joryc: I struggle a bit with small testable piece of content, maybe the small testable unit for the assertion or test?
- 15:25:58 [mbgower]
- +1
- 15:26:00 [Chuck]
- ack Detlev
- 15:26:03 [Rachael]
- q+
- 15:26:49 [bruce_bailey]
- Detlev: I think it acceptable to use "unit" without any qualifier because the the context will be self explanatory...
- 15:27:36 [mbgower]
- q+ to say maybe "against which an assertion can be made"? A unit may still have attributes we would want to inspect, but we would report against a unit (at most)
- 15:27:37 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:27:38 [sarahhorton]
- I like the proposal of something like "evaluation unit", which removes ambiguity
- 15:27:38 [bruce_bailey]
- ... Rachael had example with media player, it is no problem to talk about audio description even when the concern is the media player.
- 15:28:01 [bruce_bailey]
- ... It is not a problem in really life.
- 15:29:06 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: It is okay to use word in common usage, but we should not use glossary terms which we feel compelled to clarify with our definitions.
- 15:29:19 [Detlev]
- @gregg offen, the same lexical term has a range of meanings in different contexts - that is completely normal.
- 15:29:37 [bruce_bailey]
- ... We can use standard words, so long as we use standard definition....
- 15:29:41 [mbgower]
- q?
- 15:30:15 [Detlev]
- ...and there will be several definitions even of 'unit' in a dictionary...
- 15:30:31 [Chuck]
- ack Rach
- 15:30:40 [bruce_bailey]
- ... With regard to menu example, we call talk about choices in a drop down, and even characters in the words in a drop down choice.
- 15:30:41 [Laura_Carlson]
- Merriam-webster definition for "unit": https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unit
- 15:31:09 [bruce_bailey]
- ... Example should include both menu item and characters in a menu item.
- 15:31:39 [Detlev]
- ..so even Webster has more than a handful of definitions depending on context!
- 15:31:51 [AlinaV]
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- 15:32:00 [AlinaV]
- present+
- 15:32:14 [Chuck]
- q+ to ask for the Poll: 1) Unit, 2) Evaluation unit, 3) User Interface Unit
- 15:32:19 [Chuck]
- ack mb
- 15:32:19 [Zakim]
- mbgower, you wanted to say maybe "against which an assertion can be made"? A unit may still have attributes we would want to inspect, but we would report against a unit (at most)
- 15:32:25 [bruce_bailey]
- mbgower: I think it is okay to use a common term in our glossary, we can make it link (or not) for the TR doc.
- 15:32:41 [Rachael]
- q+
- 15:32:45 [Detlev]
- q+
- 15:32:46 [GreggVan]
- q+ to say 1) if you want to have this adopted in any regulatory 2) to make editorial comment. Only the definition should be
- 15:32:50 [bruce_bailey]
- mbgower: I thought we were looking for a term which we don't go below?
- 15:32:56 [Chuck]
- Poll: 1) Unit, 2) Evaluation unit, 3) User Interface Unit
- 15:32:59 [Chuck]
- ack Ch
- 15:32:59 [Zakim]
- Chuck, you wanted to ask for the Poll: 1) Unit, 2) Evaluation unit, 3) User Interface Unit
- 15:33:06 [GreggVan]
- 2
- 15:33:15 [Francis_Storr]
- agree with the Mike's "composite" comment for media player. Related: see ARIA's composite role: https://w3c.github.io/aria/#composite
- 15:33:26 [Graham]
- 1,2,3
- 15:33:28 [Chuck]
- 2, 1, 3
- 15:33:32 [mbgower]
- 1
- 15:33:34 [sarahhorton]
- 2
- 15:33:34 [Azlan]
- 1
- 15:33:38 [joryc]
- 2,3,1
- 15:33:39 [Jennie_Delisi]
- 1, 2
- 15:33:40 [Rachael]
- 0
- 15:33:40 [Makoto6]
- 2
- 15:33:43 [Detlev]
- 1,3,2
- 15:33:45 [CHall]
- 2,1,3
- 15:33:46 [MJ]
- 2
- 15:33:47 [ShawnT]
- 2,1,3
- 15:33:48 [filippo-zorzi]
- 2,1,3
- 15:33:50 [Francis_Storr]
- 3,1,2
- 15:33:51 [Laura_Carlson]
- 2, 1 ,3
- 15:33:55 [Francis_Storr]
- q+
- 15:33:59 [jtoles]
- 2, 1, 3
- 15:34:04 [mbgower]
- (but I can live with any of them)
- 15:34:12 [Chuck]
- ack Rach
- 15:34:22 [bruce_bailey]
- chuck: As chair, I will have trouble with live tally, but looks like 2 is more popular
- 15:34:48 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: I agree that 2 has slight edge. Any objects to using Evaluation Unit for now?
- 15:34:53 [CHall]
- as a literal thinker, I like evaluation unit because it's specific (we're going to test that)
- 15:34:59 [giacomo-petri]
- q+
- 15:35:02 [Chuck]
- ack Detlev
- 15:35:33 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:35:33 [Zakim]
- GreggVan, you wanted to say 1) if you want to have this adopted in any regulatory 2) to make editorial comment. Only the definition should be
- 15:35:38 [bruce_bailey]
- Detlev: +1 to mike, I think it may be more contract to have composite term.
- 15:36:08 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: For an SDO, we can't use "Unit" as is being proposed.
- 15:37:03 [bruce_bailey]
- ...As everything is composite, even button has aspects (for example active/inactive area) which are important
- 15:37:15 [Chuck]
- ack Francis
- 15:37:31 [bruce_bailey]
- ... Also, important that definition can replace term -- and everything else is a note
- 15:37:34 [Francis_Storr]
- https://w3c.github.io/aria/#composite
- 15:37:53 [Chuck]
- ack gia
- 15:38:12 [bruce_bailey]
- Francis_Storr: Disagree that concept of composite is problematic, as it works for context.
- 15:38:30 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 15:38:36 [Chuck]
- q+ to say I think we need to start somewhere to help in the crafting of the guidelines
- 15:38:46 [mbgower]
- I was just thinking the same thing, Giacomo. Isn't the thing being assessed determined by the outcome being assessed?
- 15:38:47 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:39:05 [bruce_bailey]
- giacomo-petri: Maybe we can clarify unit within scope of test. For example an image of text would have different meaning for "unit" but that is okay.
- 15:39:36 [Chuck]
- regrets+ Jennifer Strickland
- 15:40:05 [Chuck]
- ack Ch
- 15:40:05 [Zakim]
- Chuck, you wanted to say I think we need to start somewhere to help in the crafting of the guidelines
- 15:40:05 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: +1 to giacomo. My point is that when we are talking about all of them at once. Within get the provision, we should not use "evaluation unit".
- 15:40:24 [LenB]
- LenB has joined #ag
- 15:40:32 [LenB]
- present+
- 15:40:51 [Chuck]
- q?
- 15:40:52 [Rachael]
- q+
- 15:40:54 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: CHO we need a term while we are doing drafting. Maybe once we have drafting mature, we might find we can leave definition out.
- 15:40:54 [Chuck]
- ack Rach
- 15:41:03 [GreggVan]
- s/"evaluation unit"/"the evaluation unit is xxxx (for this requirement)"
- 15:41:15 [Chuck]
- q?
- 15:41:20 [giacomo-petri]
- q+
- 15:41:23 [Chuck]
- ack gia
- 15:41:31 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: +1 to chuck. Do we need Unit if we have Evaluation Unit?
- 15:41:46 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 15:42:11 [bruce_bailey]
- giacomo-petri: the part which is conceived by the user as whole is different from what a provision might be referring to...
- 15:42:43 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:42:59 [bruce_bailey]
- ...if native HTML, we talking about elements -- and that is meaningful to author -- but not the end user.
- 15:43:51 [Chuck]
- q?
- 15:43:53 [Graham]
- q+
- 15:43:56 [Chuck]
- ack Graham
- 15:44:10 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: +1 to giacomo-petri -- We cannot reference "perceive by the user" because that is an unknown. We might write "intended to be perceived as a unit by the user"
- 15:44:37 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 15:44:54 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:45:10 [bruce_bailey]
- Graham: Could we scope to technology? In HTML the smallest unit would be tag or element. For an audio program it might be different. For document it might be paragraph.
- 15:45:17 [Graham]
- q+
- 15:45:44 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: What is the purpose for defining the smallest element of a user interface? Where we use it?
- 15:46:06 [Chuck]
- ack Graham
- 15:46:10 [bruce_bailey]
- ... We need scope for a provision, but otherwise we don't need "smallest element".
- 15:46:45 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 15:46:52 [bruce_bailey]
- Graham: It gives the a ground to for building a a definition which is structured. For web units build up to be a page.
- 15:47:05 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:47:24 [bruce_bailey]
- ... Media player could be a combination of units in a way which make sense to talk about them.
- 15:47:51 [Francis_Storr]
- q+
- 15:48:00 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: 1st we are not going to be able to name all of the technologies, because technologies evolve.
- 15:49:06 [bruce_bailey]
- ... On a provision, in the provision, we must write what you must do and what you do to it. The bits and pieces can't be part of that, because it won't make sense as linked defined term.
- 15:49:24 [Chuck]
- q+ to summarize
- 15:49:27 [Chuck]
- ack Franc
- 15:50:00 [bruce_bailey]
- Francis_Storr: It is good to be talking about what the user is going to perceive as unit, design or intended as unit is important distinction.
- 15:50:36 [Chuck]
- ack Ch
- 15:50:36 [Zakim]
- Chuck, you wanted to summarize
- 15:50:44 [bruce_bailey]
- ... Going back to media player, consider drag bar or volume control, it makes sense for each of those to be considered as a component for a provision.
- 15:51:24 [GreggVan]
- q+ to say agree and std practice
- 15:51:30 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: CHO -- I understand Gregg's concern but I still think we need a term to help with sub group work...
- 15:51:44 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:51:44 [Zakim]
- GreggVan, you wanted to say agree and std practice
- 15:51:46 [bruce_bailey]
- ... Chairs will flush out examples and come back to group next week.
- 15:52:18 [Rachael]
- q+
- 15:52:47 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: What you propose is fine and is common with SDO work. Can come back to end and see if terms are not used or not needed because they can be deleted at end...
- 15:52:48 [Chuck]
- ack Rach
- 15:53:07 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: What to poll group on how to move forward.
- 15:53:27 [GreggVan]
- +1 to moving on and getting experience using them before further discussion
- 15:53:33 [Chuck]
- q+
- 15:53:41 [Chuck]
- ack Ch
- 15:53:50 [bruce_bailey]
- ...If people are comfortable going forward where we are, we might not need to poll.
- 15:54:02 [mbgower]
- +1 to moving on and getting experience using them before further discussion
- 15:54:23 [Rachael]
- Option 1) Bring it back for more conversation next week or 2) Continue the discussion on GitHub and bring it back only when needed
- 15:54:35 [bruce_bailey]
- chuck: We either continue on live calls or work continue just in git hub.
- 15:54:42 [GreggVan]
- 2
- 15:54:47 [sarahhorton]
- 2
- 15:54:50 [Chuck]
- 2
- 15:54:52 [ShawnT]
- 2
- 15:54:54 [Jennie_Delisi]
- 2
- 15:54:56 [giacomo-petri]
- 2
- 15:54:59 [Makoto6]
- 2
- 15:55:00 [filippo-zorzi]
- 2
- 15:55:01 [Detlev]
- 2
- 15:55:07 [Azlan]
- 2
- 15:55:07 [Rachael]
- 2 (chair hat off)
- 15:55:10 [LenB]
- 2
- 15:55:17 [Graham]
- 1 (just toi be awkward, actually 2)
- 15:55:19 [Francis_Storr]
- 1
- 15:55:24 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: Seeing lots of votes for 2, but please note this only works if people contribute offline
- 15:55:53 [kenneth]
- q+
- 15:55:59 [Chuck]
- ack kenneth
- 15:55:59 [bruce_bailey]
- Francis: I think bring back to meeting has some utility, but okay with 2.
- 15:56:24 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 15:56:31 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 15:56:31 [bruce_bailey]
- kenneth: One factor is people who have trouble with GitHub or are not on call today.
- 15:56:55 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: If you sign up on GitHub, replies can be in email.
- 15:57:16 [bruce_bailey]
- q+ to say GitHub via email is scrambled.
- 15:57:39 [bruce_bailey]
- GreggVan: Problem is finding issue.
- 15:57:53 [bruce_bailey]
- ...find the issue and comment.
- 15:58:31 [Chuck]
- bruce_bailey: Gregg has been an individual who replies via email, but was asked to respond in the discussion. Using email is aspirational.
- 15:58:46 [Rachael]
- q+ to say we can move this to our orientation calls
- 15:58:57 [Chuck]
- Gregg: If you do sign up, you do get an email, and you can use the link and fill out the comment in the discussion.
- 15:59:00 [Chuck]
- ack bruce
- 15:59:00 [Zakim]
- bruce_bailey, you wanted to say GitHub via email is scrambled.
- 15:59:05 [Chuck]
- ack Rach
- 15:59:05 [Zakim]
- Rachael, you wanted to say we can move this to our orientation calls
- 15:59:27 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: I will add to orientation call.
- 15:59:45 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: First meeting of the month starts early for anyone looking for orientation.
- 15:59:49 [Chuck]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 15:59:49 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Subgroup work -- taken up [from Chuck]
- 16:00:10 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: We have another GitHub discussion process.
- 16:00:19 [mbgower]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:00:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/08-ag-minutes.html mbgower
- 16:00:26 [Makoto6]
- q+ to ask co-chairs to let me have an opportunity to ask a question from our subgroup to check consensus as the whole group
- 16:00:45 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: We will continue discussion on the GitHub issue thread.
- 16:01:00 [bruce_bailey]
- ... Still unresolved for view whole view part of view
- 16:01:13 [kenneth]
- Process discussion I think is https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/294 ?
- 16:01:14 [Chuck]
- ack makoto
- 16:01:14 [Zakim]
- Makoto, you wanted to ask co-chairs to let me have an opportunity to ask a question from our subgroup to check consensus as the whole group
- 16:01:45 [bruce_bailey]
- Makoto6: My subgroup is stuck on this and can't go forward without some additional clarification....
- 16:02:10 [Makoto6]
- "Method list" section in the Guideline template https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MHJwOWJhGZS4zZYiF9ufNfxTmqFf6bf07vNHAAgfylE/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.jwan2ys80z90
- 16:02:36 [bruce_bailey]
- ... The template is not working for us. We are trying focus appearance, and even with Alastair helping, we have hit a dead end.
- 16:02:53 [Makoto6]
- Text Appearance
- 16:02:53 [Makoto6]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EGEgRebgj8XfvwU-Fx2kAtd-3Ifl-UkEgyOxT1Xc5UY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.a7wq1eee9ub7
- 16:03:13 [bruce_bailey]
- .... it the text appearance template, which we also tried to work from, still has subgroup stuck.
- 16:03:34 [bruce_bailey]
- Question can we change the sections and subsections on our own?
- 16:04:04 [Rachael]
- q+
- 16:04:33 [bruce_bailey]
- ... It would be better for sub groups to follow template , but we need to customize template for our use to keep work. Subgroup asks for help with that. Frankie, Laura?
- 16:04:37 [Chuck]
- ack Rachael
- 16:05:02 [Chuck]
- +1
- 16:05:16 [bruce_bailey]
- Rachael: Chairs talking about this directly before this meeting. Does not help you today, use template as you have it. We will talk more about this next week,
- 16:05:18 [Laura_Carlson]
- Thank you.
- 16:05:22 [mbgower]
- q+ to say we are in the middle of a WCAG 2 task force review period. It didn't make the agenda, so we will defer for a week.
- 16:05:39 [Laura_Carlson]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:05:40 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/08-ag-minutes.html Laura_Carlson
- 16:05:48 [bruce_bailey]
- Chuck: open
- 16:05:50 [Chuck]
- ack mb
- 16:05:50 [Zakim]
- mbgower, you wanted to say we are in the middle of a WCAG 2 task force review period. It didn't make the agenda, so we will defer for a week.
- 16:06:07 [bruce_bailey]
- s/open/opening rooms/
- 16:06:28 [bruce_bailey]
- MikeG wanted to say we are in the middle of a WCAG 2 task force review period. It didn't make the agenda, so we will defer for a week.
- 16:07:11 [Makoto6]
- s/Question can we change the sections and subsections on our own?/Our subgroup would like to get clarifications and confirm how to use the Guideline template to move forward
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