Meeting minutes
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<Lisa> take up item 2
Lisa: We made a draft issue paper, not yet ready for review
… Quite a few papers reviewed about triggers and trigger warnings.
… Seeing disturbing content is not good. This can also include loud noises.
… Research is divided on warnings - the warning can be disturbing
… It can also remind people of this difficult, and doesn't help people reduce their sensitivity.
… Some people said long-term effect of trigger warnings is not necessarily good.
Julie: The concept of the repetition of trigger warnings causing challenges for some is not popping out with clarity within the draft, to me. This will surprise a lot of people that the warnings themselves can be a problem.
Lisa: This is much more complicated than many people think.
Rashmi: This covers both triggering content and trigger warnings.
… (reads the pattern)
… Trigger warnings (later in the document) can have additional settings
… (Reviews the What to Do section)
… The lists of potential triggers is not exhaustive, and more can be added. We can add a disclaimer.
… Some countries and regions may have their own lists as well.
… (Reads from How it helps section)
Jennie: in the What to do section, need to add something related to time sensitive alerts and updates. Example: work or personal security.
Lisa: Sometimes what is going on in the world needs to be delivered immediately, such as an evacuation notice.
… We can work a little on the localization information as well.
<Zakim> Charli, you wanted to ask whether/how this relates to, e.g., spider controls in video games - is that one of the extensions envisioned?
Charli: Is this related to, or would it extend to the spider controls in video games? For example for those with phobias of spiders, there are games with settings related to how much something looks like a spider.
… Could these controls be extended to other things like this or is it different?
Rashmi: That is a good example of how they can be helpful.
Charli: This sounds really cool. Thank you.
Rashmi: (Reads from the examples section)
Lisa: We can add Charli's example here.
Rashmi: There are aspects in this section noting how to ensure people's settings are private, and not shared.
… Please share more thoughts on this.
Lisa: Next steps?
… Integrate Julie and Jennie's comments
… A matrix for settings such as important, don't avoid (Urgent)
… We would need to define these. Many people will think their content is important.
… We may need a different term indicating need to know, and when. This could still be open to abuse.
Tiffany: I agree with Charli's comment about the settings working well in a particular game.
Lisa: This can support more people to plan - better sales for the game!
(sorry, that should say "to play"
)
<Lisa> hogwarts legathy
Rashmi: I see this as a classic example: some want something scary, others need it less scary. Good to use in the How does it help section.
Lisa: Probably cheaper to add as a feature than making the super scary 3D graphics.
<Zakim> Charli, you wanted to ask about defining important
Charli: Regarding definition of important - I agree. This should not be for ads for example.
… Has there been consideration of announcements from weather or other agencies which provide disaster or urgent warnings?
Lisa: Not everything from an agency is important. Jennie's example is for the workplace.
… The news source can be tricky - some feel it is important to know what is happening in the country.
Charli: Important - intended to be things imminently dangerous to your health and safety.
Lisa: There can be criminal activity increased in your area, and people would try to avoid, but this could be more general danger, or certain health indications related to medical information (but not something immediate action needs to happen)
… Things that are not subjective
Julierawe: I had a comment specifically about the "see the issue paper"
… I think it is important to include that in this draft.
… Is the idea to include something like in the appendix, and then the user could choose which ones to receive trigger warnings about in some sort of menu?
… Then because not everything is included, should there be a write-in option?
<julierawe> +1 to Jennie suggestion to include a feature request to add another topic to trigger warning list (instead of providing write-in option)
Jennie: There may be challenges to implement a write in option after something is already created. Maybe this recommendation could be added and sent to the developers as a feature request?
Rashmi: Life threatening could be the type of phrase used for the important, imminent danger type of information. And "do not remove"
<Zakim> Lisa, you wanted to say the issues with a standard list
Lisa: Could be "essential. Do not remove."
… Issues with standard lists: I don't think we will get everything. There is a lot of localization.
<tiffanyburtin> +1 to the scaling of leveling of trigger warnings.
Lisa: This is both for events and the terms used in the area.
… This pattern to go into Making Content Usable will help developers and there is an Issue Paper with more depth.
… The pattern itself is more ready.
… The Issue Paper can have more platform syntax. Then anyone can add it.
Julierawe: To help developers with ideas on approach may be parental controls.
… Many sites have this to support controlling what your child sees. People can select certain areas but not others.
<tiffanyburtin> +1 to Julierawe and parental controls being similar
<Jennie> +1
Lisa: Minimizing the exposure is also a potential path initially, but then being able to fully review it at another time. This differs from the parental controls.
Tiffanyburtin: There is filtering that is not pre-built into social media and browsers.
… For example there is a browser extension for Facebook which hides posts with trigger words, but you can expand to review the entire post
Lisa: That is a good positive example.
… Next steps?
… If members can add comments into the document, that would be helpful.
Lisa: Rashmi will make the next draft.
… We can also link to the minutes from today.
… Proposal: we like the draft, and with the new wording.
<Lisa> we like the draft. rashmi make a new draft with the comments
Lisa: New template - let's wait to add it into that.
… Don't worry about grammar or making it succinct at this time.
<Lisa> +1
<Jennie> +1
<rashmi> +1
<tiffanyburtin> +1
<Charli> +1
Lisa: do we want the example list in the document, or just a link to it?
Charli: I think it would be better to provide at least a list of the most common list, then maybe link out to a more comprehensive list. But if too much include the entire list.
Rashmi: I agree with Charli - some examples, then a more exhaustive list as a link to the main document.
<julierawe> Thanks for great discussion today! I need to drop for another meeting, cheers
Lisa: OK, in the issue paper we can have a longer list. But we have to add the need to localize it
Rashmi: We can give a disclaimer - not an exhaustive list, and there are localized needs and situations.
<tiffanyburtin> Great work on this
Jennie: Having the localized information in the information related to "essential" with some examples would be helpful, as well as in the disclaimer
… And give a few examples to help people understand.
<Jennie> +1 fantastic work
Tiffanyburtin: How do we handle not promoting specific tools but provide examples?
Lisa: We give functional examples. Describe how something works and provides for the need.
… As long as it is not too close
<Lisa> from chat : Spider Switch: It is just a rendering layer that they switch between on top of the animation framework of the more complex animation. At least that is my current understanding. I'm currently learning Unreal Engine so I'm a noob.
<Lisa> Delayed response due to finding the article. I sent that same developer this article which is a side quest but useful for these conversations.
<Lisa> https://
<Lisa> Not to promote, but to give example.
<Lisa> Facebook Filter I use:
<Lisa> https://
Lisa: OK to post in the minutes, but not in the document.
<Zakim> Rachael, you wanted to request a few minutes
Rachael: This is related to Accessibility Guidelines Working Group, chair perspective
… Several people have mentioned challenges around pronouns, and advocacy for individuals who use pronouns
… We know that everyone wants to be considerate.
… Some struggle for a variety of reasons.
… We are evaluating the broader question on how to support conflicting needs.
… We won't have a rapid answer. We will get guidance out to all groups under Accessibility Guidelines Working Group so people are comfortable going forward.
… In the meantime: continue to think of others' needs from their point of view
… This includes tone of voice, title, pronouns
… Try to acknowledge the contributions of your peers.
… We recommend advocating for individuals by following up with correct usage and kind correction whenever possible
… I am happy to take questions on that.
Lisa: When people make mistakes - are people expected to make the correction when the person making the mistake is mid sentence?
… It can be hard for some to hold onto words and put together sentences.
Rachael: We have members who struggle with mid sentence correction, or even cuing and then correcting - this is part of the conflicting needs.
… It is hard in different ways for different people.
… Even cuing up with a public correction with the correct pronoun
… Example: instead of "(name) said it incorrectly" use the correct pronoun in a sentence without calling out the incorrect usage.
… We are continuing to work on this, getting feedback.
… This is middle ground we have reviewed while we continue to work with groups and research.
Tiffanyburtin: In Zoom we have the option to select pronouns. Would this be helpful if we all selected them - to support a text version.
Rachael: I think it does help. The challenge can be that Zoom is not always visible, such as when screen sharing.
Lisa: It doesn't help for some looking at other locations/interfaces.
… Especially for those with working memory challenges.
<Zakim> Rachael, you wanted to close conversation
Lisa: Some can also send private messages to remind the person without derailing the ongoing conversation.
Rachael: please send suggestions, thoughts, reactions.
… We want to ensure we are respectful of all parties.
… People are important.
Rashmi: When we log into IRC we could also add our pronouns. This might be helpful as well.
Rachael: That is a good idea.
Lisa: There may be also a way to capture it in the minutes as scribing happens.
<tiffanyburtin> Agreed Rashmi, I was just thinking the same thing. I think there is a short cut to populate someone's full name in IRC from a portion.
Rachael: Assumption of good intentions will also be part of the information we share. We do need to approach everyone with generosity in our assumptions of others.
Lisa: We will find the right thing that everyone can manage.