W3C

RDF-star WG meeting

07 November 2024

Attendees

Present
AndyS, AZ, doerthe, Dominik_T, eBremer, enrico, gkellogg, gtw, james, niklasl, olaf, ora, pchampin, pfps, Souri, TallTed, tl, Tpt, william_vw
Regrets
ktk
Chair
ora
Scribe
doerthe

Meeting minutes

<pfps> look fine to me

ora: we go through the minutes of the last two meeting. Any observations?

<AndyS> LGTM

<ora> PROPOSAL: Accept minutes of 2024-10-24

<pfps> +1

<niklasl> +1

<ora> +1

<Dominik_T> +1

<Souri> +1

<doerthe> +1

<TallTed> +1

<AndyS> +1

<gkellogg> +1

<gtw> +1

<tl> +1

<eBremer> +1

<william_vw> +1

<olaf> +1

<AZ3> +1

<pchampin> +1

<enrico> +1

<Tpt> +1

<james> +1

RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of 2024-10-24

<ora> PROPOSAL: Accept minutes of 2024-10-31

<pfps> +1

<ora> 0

<niklasl> +1

<Tpt> +1

<enrico> +1

<olaf> +1

<william_vw> +1

<gkellogg> +1

<TallTed> +1

0

<Dominik_T> +1

<tl> +1

<james> +1

<pchampin> 0

<AndyS> +1

<gtw> +1

<AZ3> +1

<eBremer> +1

RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of 2024-10-31

Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: 1 , 2

Meeting next week: ISWC

<pfps> nice save

ora: are you attending ISWC, should we have a meeting?

<pfps> +1 to having a meeting

ora: I will be absent, but ktk could chair
… so we have a meeting

pchampin: could you report to the group after attending ISWC?

<pfps> ora: can your slides be shared with the group?

ora: I will have RDF-star as part of my keynote, I will report

<pfps> yeah, yeah

ora: I can share the slides when they are ready and the talk will be recorded

Prioritization of next week's topics 3

gkellogg: did you finish item 3?

ora: working on that. chairs are still working out SPARQL exists

ora: not sure whether this can be discussed, pa?

pchampin: we have to sort out whether is is part of the charter

james: I am against the change of the charter

<Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask whether wg members actually have a say in the charter

pchampin: the question is whether that addresses an editorial errata or not, most likely a substantial errata
… but that is not strictly not in the charter

pfps: are there formal objections to charters possible?

pchampin: technically yes

pchampin: there was a vote about our new charter, it is approved. But some people suggested to go further. That is now the discussion

TallTed: formal objections are not possible for votes on charters
… but that is something we do not need to discuss within our group

<tl> s/"objections"/"formal objections"

ora: can we get the team's view on that?

pchampin: I already did. Bottomline: either we continue with the new charter which was voted on or

AndyS: Apache voted in favour of the new charter including the changes
… the editorial changes, maybe a missunderstanding?

ora: we will pick that up and clarify under which charter we continue

ora: to go back to the issues, SPARQL EXISTS is on hold
… any suggestions which issues we want to discuss next week?

<enrico> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/RDF-star-%22alternative-baseline%22

enrico: in the Semantic Task Force we discussed that we should take a position on our "alternative baseline", available at: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/RDF-star-%22alternative-baseline%22

ora: can we make that the first thing to discuss next week? any objections?

ora: homework for everybody, read the updated baseline proposal

ora: then this will be one of the topics we do next week
… any other suggestions?

AndyS: maybe we should discuss ill-typed literals?

<Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say it is time to finish ill-typed literal

ora: let's discuss then

pfps: I would like to have a resolution on that topic, because we keep discussing that topic
… I will prepare a proposal

ora: if possible, could you send it beforehand? just to keep the discussion short

ora: should we discuss rdfs:states as third topic

tl: I expect us to not get there in time.
… my idea was to introduce it for the annotation syntax. There was not majority for it. There is also the question whether we want a property rdfs:states without supporting syntactic sugar

<pfps> +1 to considering the json in the list

<Zakim> pfps, you wanted to plead for brevity

gkellogg: regarding rdf:JSON issue, we could close it

<enrico> I beieve that tl asks for a vote on https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/Extending-the-baseline-with-%22asserted%22-stuff

pfps: I would like to emphasize that we should try to go for more proposals and less discussion
… if people want to get things changed, they should write proposals
… because then we can vote

ora: we now have topics, of course we can discuss more
… anything else we should move forward?

Review of open actions, available at 4

ora: anything on your side pchampin?

pchampin: not sure how our current position is on the un-star mapping, if we want it, I can work on it

ora: we will have a discussion what we do on that

pchampin: problem with issue ? is that we only have a mailing list as contact

TallTed: is the mailing list even maintained afterwards?

(I need help scribing on that one, please)

ora: I suggest we use the mailing list address for now and pchampin could further follow up

:)

<gtw> last email to that list was in February of this year.

<TallTed> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/ shows that one still lives

pchampin: I will

<TallTed> tho the lack of response to https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2024Feb/0000.html keeps its utility in question

gkellogg: we discussed changing our name, we decided before that we do that after finishing the work, but I think it could be too late

ora: I wonder whether we could establish a more permanent e-mail address like rdf-issues or similar

gkellogg: maybe we can merge the three open media type updates, one is causing a respec problem
… this has no error message, we should wait till this is solved

Review of pull requests, available at 5

gkellogg: I would wait till next week to wait for respec

ora: section for definition of triple terms, what is the state AndyS?

AndyS: This is about section order, content doesn't change, some extra about triple terms

ora: can we merge? no objection, we do

AndyS: we additionally have a request for symmetric RDF, which means that we allow all terms in subject position we allow in object position, that has not much practical consequences

ora: objections to merge? no

AndyS: other merge is moving ?? to semantics

<gtw> sorry for the audio issues. hoping for some clarification on expected behavior of invalid codepoint escapes.

<gtw> there's the bigger issue Gregg is discussing on difference between Turtle and SPARQL, but I think fixing that would be a breaking change we probably can't(?) make.

<gtw> I think splitting is OK, but orthogonal to the discussion on expected behavior of error cases.

<TallTed> should get a "push to 2.0" or similar

AndyS: I suggest to split (issue fill in) into two

<TallTed> *maybe* could be a switchable thing? or a "compliance with the 1.x specs requires this security hole be open; we hope it will be closed/closable for 2.x specs"

<gtw> TallTed: yes, bug again, orthogonal issue to what I was aiming for with this PR.

enrico: suggestion for STF, should we go through the baseline together?

Summary of resolutions

  1. Accept minutes of 2024-10-24
  2. Accept minutes of 2024-10-31
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 242 (Fri Dec 20 18:32:17 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/ktk could share/ktk could chair/

Failed: s/"objections"/"formal objections"

Succeeded: s/sort out wether/sort out whether/

Succeeded: s/SPARQL exists is on hold/SPARQL EXISTS is on hold/

Succeeded: s/RDF-Json issue/rdf:JSON issue/

Succeeded: s/such a thing in general/a property rdfs:states without supporting syntactic sugar

All speakers: AndyS, enrico, gkellogg, james, ora, pchampin, pfps, TallTed, tl

Active on IRC: AndyS, AZ, AZ3, doerthe, Dominik_T, eBremer, enrico, gkellogg, gtw, james, niklasl, olaf, ora, pchampin, pfps, Souri, TallTed, tl, Tpt, william_vw