IRC log of cloud-coordination on 2024-09-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-cloud-coordination-irc
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RRSAgent, do not leave
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Meeting: Cloud Edge Client Coordination
14:53:15 [tpac-breakout-bot]
Chair: maxpassion, Michael McCool
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Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/39
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14:53:16 [tpac-breakout-bot]
Zakim, clear agenda
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agenda cleared
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Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe
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agendum 1 added
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Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
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agendum 2 added
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Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session
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agendum 3 added
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Zakim, agenda+ Discussion
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agendum 4 added
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Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
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agendum 5 added
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21:29:26 [Max]
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21:41:10 [Max]
?
21:41:13 [Max]
q?
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present+
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present+
21:48:20 [angel]
present+
21:48:37 [angel]
present+Qing An, Max Liu, Song Xu
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present+
21:50:26 [angel]
scribe: angel
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21:50:38 [angel]
Max: first part is the use case discussion
21:50:40 [zolkis]
present+ Zoltan_Kis
21:50:48 [angel]
...will give a brief intro
21:50:55 [annette_g]
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21:51:00 [angel]
...there was a related breakout session today
21:51:11 [angel]
...about generative AI and Web
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21:51:37 [xfq]
present+
21:52:04 [annette_g]
present+
21:52:04 [angel]
McCool: this is more about requirments for AI models
21:52:51 [angel]
Max: sometimes the latency can be sensetive
21:53:12 [angel]
...we wont discuss solutions in this session, more on the use cases
21:53:56 [angel]
Song: about cloud game, I presented the game use cases on the web Network IG
21:54:22 [angel]
...why I bring this case here is that, we have some web-based cloud game now
21:54:36 [ktoumura]
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21:55:11 [angel]
... with the commercial round of the cloud game, with 2 million users
21:55:32 [angel]
...the biggest consuming part is the keyboard events
21:55:37 [angel]
...to be translated
21:55:57 [angel]
...from end to end time we can see the translation will be the major part of the how process
21:56:20 [angel]
...we still talk about the ideal mechanism for that
21:56:27 [angel]
...we came up with 2 solutions
21:56:40 [angel]
...since the Web based solution is on top of the TCP IP network
21:56:49 [angel]
...hard to get better perf on that
21:57:09 [angel]
...so we ask if we can have @@1 network, with higher priority
21:57:42 [angel]
...2 solutions, 1 is to have MOQ, to be standardized in 3GPP, which will change the low latency situation
21:58:06 [angel]
...that one is a long term evolution
21:59:01 [angel]
...the 2nd one is the Cloud Edge Client Coordination
21:59:18 [angel]
...we had another case for the Paris Olympic game
21:59:23 [angel]
...we set up @@2
22:00:41 [angel]
[Song is showing a game case of Black Myth]
22:01:06 [angel]
...the web based rending effect is good in this game case
22:01:23 [angel]
... the end ot end latenty is acceptable
22:01:44 [angel]
McCool: how far are the servers and client?
22:02:36 [angel]
Song: the edge is delpyed in each city
22:02:53 [angel]
... at least in east part of China
22:03:12 [angel]
[Song showing the architecture of the game]
22:03:24 [angel]
...within 100km
22:06:17 [angel]
McCool: reason this gourp is called Cloud Edge Client Coordination
22:06:55 [angel]
...is that there is interaction between Cloud Edge and Client
22:07:17 [angel]
...local network edge computing can also be done
22:08:04 [angel]
...next use case, a home system for smart house
22:08:44 [angel]
...people can give command by voice
22:08:55 [angel]
...a home server can do AI
22:09:24 [angel]
...one thing I try is can we have a web paltfrom in distributed fashion to handle distributed wokers
22:09:46 [angel]
...not much standards around this
22:10:33 [angel]
...cool things can be done, like people recognization
22:10:50 [angel]
... this kind of thing can also be provided by 3th party
22:10:57 [angel]
...can be a new business model
22:11:31 [angel]
...or for security as well, as intruder detection
22:11:53 [angel]
Max: for this use case, all the computing is happening on edge?
22:11:57 [angel]
McCool: yes
22:12:14 [angel]
Max: anything on the cloud to control it?
22:12:17 [angel]
McCool: nop
22:12:29 [angel]
...I can run the network dowm
22:12:35 [angel]
...like a local network
22:12:41 [angel]
s/dowm/down
22:14:26 [angel]
@@3: in same domain, easy to solve the trust issue
22:14:46 [angel]
...media server is easy to discover
22:15:03 [angel]
McCool: HP is local, which is nice
22:16:54 [angel]
@@2: what is the split between the work
22:17:11 [angel]
s/@@2/@@3
22:17:49 [angel]
McCool: either breaking down the pieces or sandboxing
22:19:02 [angel]
Max: we can discuss the details in the CG meeting
22:19:20 [angel]
...we have a document, a W3C group note for the use cases
22:19:30 [xfq]
https://www.w3.org/TR/edge-cloud-reqs/
22:19:38 [angel]
...let's move to the demo part, provided by Alibaba Could
22:19:54 [angel]
...the demo is to do the website acceleration
22:20:09 [angel]
[Max showing the demo]
22:22:06 [angel]
McCool: purely functional, server-less
22:22:10 [angel]
Max: yes
22:22:17 [angel]
s/purely functional, server-less/purely functional, server-less?
22:22:33 [angel]
Max: we have done the first 2 parts
22:23:02 [angel]
...the 3rd part is to discuss the gap and how we can prioritize the work
22:23:21 [angel]
@@2: how does the server determin that there is an offload opportunity for edge?
22:23:32 [angel]
Max: this is triggered by the user
22:24:17 [angel]
... it's called central cloud control
22:24:30 [kenji_baheux]
q+
22:24:30 [angel]
...the central controls the cloud resources
22:24:52 [angel]
McCool: this is a different model
22:25:26 [angel]
...the appraoch I take, is move the client app and @@4
22:25:56 [angel]
...how something is up and run is independent to the service
22:27:09 [angel]
@@2: where W3C needs to be involved?
22:28:09 [zolkis]
q+
22:28:34 [angel]
McCool: web workers let you offload the work
22:28:45 [angel]
...what if the webwork can run different machines
22:29:31 [jyasskin]
q+ jyasskin to ask about commonalities between the client-controlled and server-controlled edge models
22:30:32 [angel]
Max: like what in the game use case, the cloud and edge can do the rending, the user side can receive the rended content
22:31:14 [angel]
McCool: I might discover a computing resouce nearby when I try to run an demanding app
22:33:13 [angel]
...for game use case, maybe I can download the video and offload the other pieces
22:33:27 [angel]
@@2: the big question is who has relationship with who
22:35:18 [angel]
...and which I do I trust and the business model for it
22:35:59 [angel]
McCool: there are gaps, how to discover the service, how to trust them, how to do communicaiton, etc
22:36:16 [xfq]
q?
22:36:27 [angel]
ack ken
22:36:41 [angel]
ack zol
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22:36:55 [kenji_baheux]
q?
22:36:55 [angel]
Zolkis: what is mission in the space
22:37:50 [angel]
...s/mission in the space/is missing in the space?
22:38:03 [angel]
...can we use the existing things like Web bluetooth?
22:38:23 [angel]
...we need to verify what we actually want to achieve
22:38:37 [angel]
McCool: I think we are talking browser APIs here
22:38:48 [zolkis]
q?
22:38:51 [angel]
Max: the edge run time is related to winter CG
22:39:15 [angel]
...we need some cooperation with them
22:39:48 [angel]
McCool: need to work on things like what kind of library is available
22:40:28 [angel]
Max: 5 min left, we can do through the gaps and see if we have consensus for them
22:40:43 [angel]
...this can be the base to start the CG work
22:41:46 [angel]
McCool: we need to identity which gap we need to focus on
22:41:59 [angel]
Max: the plan is to launch the CG after the CG
22:42:08 [angel]
...and then start the incubation work in the CG
22:42:20 [angel]
...we will not go the gaps one by one
22:42:47 [angel]
Jeffery: 2 different kinds of use cases, one is the servers know each other
22:43:15 [angel]
...how to combine them
22:43:23 [kenji_baheux]
this reminds me of https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/chrome-experiment-turns-your-smartphone-into-web-based-game-controller/ but with less friction (iirc, you had to scan a qrcode or some other manual step to connect the mobile and desktop to the same user experience).
22:43:53 [Max]
q?
22:44:20 [kenji_baheux]
q+
22:44:27 [xfq]
ack jyasskin
22:44:27 [Zakim]
jyasskin, you wanted to ask about commonalities between the client-controlled and server-controlled edge models
22:44:34 [angel]
McCool: we have multi-stakeholders in the CG, with different prospectives
22:45:26 [angel]
...e.g. China Mobile can run a service on their cloud tower, it can be chosen by the client
22:45:50 [angel]
...you dont have to tell the app what to do, it can scan for the resources available
22:46:08 [angel]
...dont need to tell the app how to do it
22:46:21 [zolkis]
q?
22:46:40 [jyasskin]
s/@@2/DanDruta/g
22:48:20 [kenji_baheux]
q-
22:48:23 [angel]
McCool: the CG will be launched soon, welcome to join
22:48:31 [angel]
Max: thank you all for the discussion!
22:48:34 [angel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
22:48:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-cloud-coordination-minutes.html angel
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rrsagent, make log public
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