– DRAFT –
(MEETING TITLE)

aardrian: sounds like there are good resources out there, I’ll check those out, please comment on my issue

<Adam_Page> s/???/“Providing accessible names and descriptions”/

<Jamie> https://www.jantrid.net/2015/12/woe-aria-surprisingly-but-ridiculously.html

<smockle> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/practices/names-and-descriptions/

<aaronlev> Here is Chromium's console error when there's a prohibited name

2025 Prioritization

<aaronlev> error << "An accessible name was placed on a prohibited role. This "

<aaronlev> "causes inconsistent behavior in screen readers. For example, "

<aaronlev> "<div aria-label=\"foo\"> is invalid as it is not accessible in "

<aaronlev> "every screen reader, because they expect only to read the inner "

<aaronlev> "contents of certain types of containers. Please add a valid role "

<aaronlev> "or put the name on a different object. As a repair technique, "

<aaronlev> "the browser will place the prohibited name in the accessible "

<aaronlev> "description field. To learn more, see the section 'Roles which "

<aaronlev> "cannot be named' in the ARIA specification at "

<aaronlev> "https://w3c.github.io/aria/#namefromprohibited."

<aaronlev> << "\nError details:" << "\n* Element: " << GetElement()

<aaronlev> << "\n* Role: " << InternalRoleName(RoleValue())

<aaronlev> << "\n* Prohibited name: " << prohibited_name

<aaronlev> << "\n* Name from = " << prohibited_name_from << "\n";

jamesn: this will be open format

<aaronlev> Sorry about the word wrapping

jamesn: if there’s something you’d love to work on in 2025, please say so

jcraig: focus on testability (WPT, Acacia, etc.)... Other HTML and OpenUI features or existing native HTML features... If there are other ARIA changes requested, I'd like us to be able to test them before we change them.

cyns: do user research
… ask users who are less experienced with AT than people in this room
… about these features we’re considering

Nathan: WPT tests for Firefox that go into common tests
… avoid duplication
… and other browsers could imitate

Jamie: start figuring out how we will map these new HTML/CSS features that don’t fit into elements
… text fragments, for example, is not an element, it’s a concept
… we know what what the mapping should be, but where and how will we put that in the spec

Brett-Lewis: much of my job is fixing bad ARIA
… so it’s helpful to have these abstract conversations about how things should work

jamesn: which leads me to say “how do we better work in collaboration with AT makers”

jcraig: there’s a significant portion of the browsers that has to ask “what did the author intend here?”; it’s more than bad ARIA, it’s bad web

ChrisCuellar: ARIA-AT, particularly buildling out automation
… really curious about user research idea
… accnames and descriptions and how they’re being used
… working with bigger datasets

aaronlev: not everything is ARIA; how do we get people to write better accessible rich internet applications
… focus on HTML/CSS
… reward for effort
… wish this group would spend more time on HTML/CSS
… maybe have joint meetings at some cadence
… DOM as well
… error messages in DevTools are also powerful

jcraig: is there a concept of testing the error log in WPT?
… there should be, especially if we lean into presenting more of those error messages
… there could be some optional tests to look at what went into the console

aaronlev: also want feedback on the DX/usability of the console messages

spectranaut_: besides the acaccia testing, also excited to see better mappings into the a11y APIs

Daniel: getting the new charter up and running
… moving some of our specs to CR
… PDF-AAM
… excited to have them in the room. Will have some impact on how browsers render PDF

Matt_King: last year, the top 3 were: notifications, actions, listview
… so I’d like to follow through on those, get them over the finish line
… also very excited about alignment with HTML

aardrian: more collaboration with HTML/CSS
… they are producing new stuff constantly
… and also things related to tables

sarah: I support aaronle’s cadence of joint meetings

<aardrian> because tables must be tamed

sarah: also aria-actions
… get that over the finish line
… listview (?)
… and probably more stuff around indexing

alisonmaher: ariaNotify

smockle: also ariaNotify
… and expand what can be tested with WPT
… computed tree or otherwise
… ties into many of the new features being proposed
… gives us more confidence in what we’re specifying and delivering

alice: testing
… +1 to more alignment and collaboration with HTML/CSS
… computed a11y tree in addition to AAM tests

jamesn: what I heard is:
… testing
… HTML/CSS collab
… finishing things we started
… and usability

Rahim: +1 to aaronlev, spectranaut_, aardrian
… css-aam
… is another thing I’d like us to tackle
… and a path forward on IDL

Ray: +1 to HTML/CSS integration

jcraig: +1 to PDF-AAM, I will be writing first draft and then handing off to Paul

jamesn: back to conclusions
… have a monthly HTML/CSS call
… we should probably limit new ARIA features to those that support new HTML/CSS features

<ZoeBijl> ZoeBijl: +1 to james

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to add another at the end