13:21:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
13:21:39 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-rdf-star-irc
13:45:47 <TallTed> meeting: RDF-star WG — Semantics TF
13:45:47 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/09/05-rdf-star-minutes.html
13:45:47 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/09/12-rdf-star-minutes.html
13:46:00 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:46:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
13:46:04 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:52:51 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-star
13:59:35 <tl> tl has joined #rdf-star
14:00:13 <TallTed> present+ TallTed, tl
14:00:36 <enrico> enrico has joined #rdf-star
14:01:01 <enrico> present=
14:01:05 <enrico> present+
14:01:14 <william_vw> william_vw has joined #rdf-star
14:01:18 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdf-star
14:01:24 <william_vw> present+
14:01:30 <william_vw> (unsure if that's needed here)
14:02:17 <tl> @william_vw  we all do it
14:02:38 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-star
14:02:50 <AndyS> present+
14:02:52 <enrico> we handle the queue here
14:03:08 <pfps> present+
14:04:44 <TallTed> present+ Souri, niklasl, AndyS, doerthe
14:04:59 <TallTed> s/present=//
14:05:07 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:05:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:05:22 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
14:05:32 <doerthe> present+
14:05:48 <gkellogg> present+
14:05:52 <niklasl> present+
14:06:13 <TallTed> chair: enrico
14:06:52 <TallTed> topic: discussion about creating instances of reificationProperty class
14:07:24 <niklasl> https://spinrdf.org
14:08:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:10:37 <niklasl> q+
14:10:42 <AndyS> FWIW SPIN RDF is a dormant project and not active.
14:11:18 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:11:21 <tl> q+
14:11:37 <doerthe> yes, right
14:11:54 <william_vw> niklasl yes indeed
14:12:12 <AndyS> q+
14:12:34 <enrico> ack tl
14:12:47 <tl> :r rdfreifies <<( :s :p :o )>>. :r rdf:object [ .... ]
14:12:55 <doerthe> q+
14:14:01 <enrico> ack andys
14:14:02 <doerthe> q-
14:14:16 <niklasl> I think it could work it does imply that the reifier is a member of rdf:Statement, which we probably need some recommendation for.
14:14:18 <niklasl> q+
14:15:01 <niklasl> Yes, as  AndyS says, SHACL Rules would be valuable to look at.
14:15:19 <doerthe> was also my idea, but I put myself of the queue because I am reading up at the moment
14:16:19 <enrico> no, niklasl, reifiers are not statements!
14:17:33 <AndyS> OBJECT(triple term) = :o  -- the function is on the tripleTerm not the reifier.
14:17:36 <doerthe> q+
14:17:48 <doerthe> (after shacl inspection)
14:24:11 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:24:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:25:01 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:26:38 <enrico> ack doerthe
14:26:44 <william_vw> q+
14:27:00 <enrico> ack william_vw
14:28:02 <enrico> q+
14:28:27 <niklasl> (A possible way using OWL infer that a specific reifier is also a classic reification: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/niklasl/69428b043be6f1d33fd45f89cbe52632/raw/13cd391a1eebad5f975e4aae93fd2fd581fb4683/statement-entailment.ttl  - note: this is related to but *not* the same as "unstarring".)
14:29:29 <niklasl> (Something similar could be used for e.g. sh:TripleRule https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl-af/#rules .)
14:30:44 <tl> q+ to ask if the rdfs:domain of an rdf:ReificationProperty is ... always a reifier?
14:31:25 <tl> @niklas no
14:32:12 <william_vw> enrico thanks, that makes sense
14:32:16 <enrico> ack enrico
14:32:22 <niklasl> Oh no, sorry, you're right tl :)
14:32:27 <enrico> ack tl
14:32:27 <Zakim> tl, you wanted to ask if the rdfs:domain of an rdf:ReificationProperty is ... always a reifier?
14:32:59 <niklasl> q+
14:33:12 <doerthe> q+
14:33:24 <niklasl> +1 (IIUC) that rdf:reifies is as strong as rdf:type (a core concept)
14:34:11 <niklasl> To note, I don't see much use for a reifier class...
14:35:00 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:37:19 <enrico> ack doerthe
14:37:23 <enrico> q+
14:39:41 <niklasl> Not even literals denote themselves (in 1.1)...
14:44:37 <enrico> ack enrico
14:44:43 <doerthe> q+
14:44:50 <enrico> ack doerthe
14:45:21 <niklasl> q+
14:45:41 <tl> q+
14:50:15 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:51:09 <enrico> fight FIGHT F I G H T !!!!!
14:53:00 <enrico> Example: https://agilemodeling.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/classDiagramAssociationClasses.gif
14:55:03 <enrico> Other example: https://images.slideplayer.com/24/6992546/slides/slide_3.jpg
14:55:51 <enrico> More example: https://vertabelo.com/blog/weak-entity-example/1.png
14:56:07 <enrico> UML/ORM/E-R
14:56:25 <enrico> ack tl
14:56:57 <enrico> q+
14:59:59 <niklasl> rdf:ReificationProperty rdfs:domain rdfs:Resource . # ?
15:03:09 <AndyS> q+
15:03:17 <enrico> ack enrico
15:04:08 <enrico> ack andys
15:04:29 <niklasl> I believe I agree that we need rdf:reifies, which is more detailed, requiring assertion and separate reification (in my words).
15:05:34 <tl> q+
15:06:14 <william_vw> I'm also not convinced of this right now
15:06:25 <tl> q-
15:06:26 <william_vw> (FWIW)
15:06:44 <niklasl> q+
15:07:05 <enrico> ack niklasl
15:07:13 <william_vw> q+
15:08:43 <tl> q+
15:10:55 <doerthe> they are all grown-ups :D
15:11:05 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdf-star
15:11:12 <enrico> enrico has joined #rdf-star
15:11:18 <enrico> present+
15:11:21 <enrico> q+
15:11:27 <enrico> ack william_vw
15:11:32 <enrico> q-
15:12:02 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:12:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
15:13:30 <enrico> ack tl
15:13:32 <enrico> q+
15:15:44 <doerthe> to refine my position, I would like to have literals in subject position, but I understand why they could be dangerous. I still don't see the danger from triple terms
15:16:32 <niklasl> q+
15:17:06 <TallTed> i/RRSAgent, make logs public/scribe: none
15:17:18 <enrico> ack enrico
15:17:19 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:17:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
15:17:26 <enrico> ack niklasl
15:26:09 <tl> q+
15:27:13 <william_vw> q+
15:29:00 <enrico> ack tl
15:29:01 <tl> q-
15:29:11 <TallTed> ack william_vw
15:29:12 <enrico> ack william_vw
15:38:07 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdf-star
15:41:16 <niklasl> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-ucr/issues/27
15:41:17 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-ucr/issues/27 -> Issue 27 Integrating different ontology designs through entailment upon triple terms (by niklasl) [use case]
15:46:44 <TallTed> i|RRSAgent, make logs public|agenda: https://www.w3.org/mid/B09C1215-D0EC-4E83-889A-BAAB7D9945DF@inf.unibz.it
15:46:52 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:46:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
15:47:44 <niklasl> +1 for a less-generalized RDF (Sgt RDF)
15:48:06 <niklasl> R-Triples ?
15:48:40 <tl> G-Triples and LG-Triples
15:50:35 <niklasl> Input restriction sounds promising.
15:52:26 <niklasl> Postel's law recommends outputting input syntax (and accepting but not necessarily keeping other stuff).
15:53:22 <william_vw> I'm signing off (lunchtime)
15:53:56 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:53:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:00:44 <TallTed> Zakim, bye
16:00:44 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been enrico, william_vw, AndyS, pfps, Souri, niklasl, doerthe, gkellogg
16:00:44 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
16:00:49 <TallTed> RRSAgent, bye
16:00:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items