14:56:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcls
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14:58:25 <dbooth> rrsagent, make logs public
14:59:10 <dbooth> Meeting: FHIR RDF
14:59:14 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth
15:04:54 <dbooth> Topic: Concept IRI
15:06:42 <dbooth> Gaurav: No major updates.  Up to 9 of 15 votes for UP 377,  adding IRI stems to MeSH
15:06:59 <dbooth> https://jira.hl7.org/browse/UP-377
15:07:08 <dbooth> gaurav: out next week
15:07:58 <dbooth> Topic: ShEX
15:08:29 <dbooth> ericp: Did some GPT experiments for composing queries given ShEX
15:08:35 <dbooth> ... ChatGPT
15:08:44 <dbooth> ... Llama 3.1 didn't do well.
15:09:03 <dbooth> erich: If you run it through Ollama, the context window is tiny.
15:09:24 <dbooth> ericP: I trimmed the shex first, to only the part needed.
15:09:42 <dbooth> ... But I was able to do some experiments.
15:10:02 <dbooth> erich: I'm using Ollama
15:10:32 <dbooth> .... I'm testing memory usage.  I'm only running 8Billion parameter one.
15:10:55 <dbooth> ... Not surprised if ChatGPT does better, w a bigger model.
15:11:26 <dbooth> ... I
15:11:39 <dbooth> ... I'll see if we can give you access to our bigger machine.
15:12:27 <dbooth> Topic: DICOM
15:14:57 <dbooth> erich: Wanted to try adapting code, instead of RDF lists, to geoparql well-known text string.  But didn't find sample data.
15:15:32 <dbooth> ... Looking in my data for sample.
15:16:16 <dbooth> ACTION: Detlef to see if he has some sample data having polygons
15:18:50 <dbooth> erich: Talking w Dave Beckett could help us close out some issues.
15:19:24 <dbooth> ... They used OWL.  Would be good to write OWL for what we're doing
15:22:00 <dbooth> ericP: If you're maintaining the current plan, that would obviate my attempt at a meta issue.
15:23:17 <dbooth> ACTION: Erich Bremer to create issue for writing OWL, and also SHACL.  Starting to learn ShEx.
15:26:52 <dbooth> DBooth: What's going to be our process for tying our DICOM RDF work back to FHIR RDF work?
15:27:09 <dbooth> ericp: Might demo that we can move data from one form to another.
15:28:24 <dbooth> dbooth: That would demo the value of RDF in a DICOM context
15:28:35 <dbooth> erich: I'll make my code public.
15:30:17 <dbooth> dbooth: How would DICOM RDF be connected to FHIR RDF data?
15:30:35 <dbooth> erich: FHIR RDF would reference the DICOM?
15:31:11 <dbooth> ericP: ImagingStudy resource?
15:31:39 <dbooth> erich: They're grouped and connected back to a parent Study
15:32:12 <dbooth> detlef: You define a Study, make a request to DICOm, and modality starts a series.
15:32:34 <dbooth> ... That needs StudyInstance ID.  That should be the link.
15:33:13 <dbooth> ericp: Would FHIR also address into these DICOM things, so you're not pointing at the whole blob?
15:33:33 <dbooth> detlef: I don't think that can be done w the old approach.  Could only be done w DICOM RDF approach.
15:34:24 <dbooth> ericp: Wondering if StudyInstance can point to something more specific in a DICOM report.
15:34:42 <dbooth> erich: There is stuff in DICOM that allows those annotations.
15:35:38 <dbooth> ... When spatial indexing is turned on, in Virtuoso, the geosparql well-known text takes advantage of it.
15:36:30 <dbooth> .... It's the same argument for pushing everything into XSD types, so SPARQL store s can use them.  Doing the same thing for spatial data.
15:36:51 <dbooth> ericP: Would be fun to add that to QLever
15:37:15 <dbooth> ... If you want to point to a piece of a giant scan, to you abstract that portionfirst?
15:37:32 <dbooth> detlef: You can specify delineations
15:37:58 <dbooth> ... And you can do a structured report, diagnosis in a radiology image.  Making statements about it.
15:38:18 <dbooth> ... These DICOM structures have their own modalities and their own instances.
15:39:55 <dbooth> ericP: Is that a good use case for us to chase?
15:40:03 <dbooth> detlef: I think so.
15:40:36 <dbooth> dbooth: Need to make sure we have the ability to do that kind of referencing in FHIR?
15:42:12 <dbooth> ACTION: ericP to check whether appropriate referencing portions of a DICOM document
15:42:36 <dbooth> erich: It might change depending on the modality
15:43:39 <dbooth> ... You have xray type, CAT scan type, etc.  Then within that you now have pathology, whole site imaging.  They're single layer images.  As this normalized in RDF, how does it play together?
15:44:01 <dbooth> ericP: And if there's a tension between putting stuff in FHIR vs DICOM
15:44:53 <dbooth> ... DICOM folks have been pushing for adding pathology info.  Annotations are more numerous w whole site images.
15:45:47 <dbooth> ... David Clooney has a paper on having both TIF and DICOM together.
15:46:12 <dbooth> ... But the tooling to look at whole slide imaging is immature.
15:46:34 <dbooth> ... TCI group is very int in DICOM and RDF.
15:47:05 <dbooth> .... Cancer Imaging Warehouse -- lots of dde-iDed data available to use.
15:48:15 <dbooth> ... I'm nudging them toward RDF, to deal with disparate datasets.
15:50:01 <dbooth> ... DICOM meets continuously, and releases a new version every quarter.
15:53:04 <dbooth> Topic: DICOM sequence tags
15:53:05 <dbooth> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/146
15:54:58 <dbooth> erich: I think we can use a blank node stand off to an object.
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15:56:41 <dbooth> ACTION: Erich to add example to issue 146
15:57:10 <dbooth> ACTION: Detlef to supply example that cross references
16:00:27 <dbooth> Present: Gaurav Vaidya, Detlef Grittner, EricP, Erich Bremer, David Booth
16:00:29 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
16:00:33 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/05-hcls-minutes.html dbooth