Meeting minutes
<gb> /issues/112 -> #112
<gb> /issues/98 -> #98
<gb> /issues/118 -> #118
New Business
No new business
WAI Group Note Messaging review
David - Janina stressed the importance of coming up with a message on a previous call. She provided a template from Shawn Henry, lead for WAI. David offered to do copy editing, revising it to address our work. Now reviewing comments.
David - I am going to review all of the edits
Janina - the more places we have people comment, the better
Janina - this message is not a legally binding committment
David - we are still working through GitHub issues, and republishing as we go. But we want to get the message out. It may change slightly after a review of the ISO document. After a quick review, the ISO document looks very policy oriented and granular. We're more structured and provide a framework, so we may be complimentary.
Jeff - what is the ISO number?
David - it's in the GitHub, 3071-2019
Jeff - that was based on british standard 8878, turned into an ISO standard
David - Shaun Henry is very interested in this, we need to review
Janina - we need to have a short answer on why we are publishing a maturity model, and why it's different than others
David - we won't dive into it right now, but need to get this message out of the way so we're ready to go
David - reviewing Jeff's feedback from email
Jeff - people may provide a different level of feedback or comments if they knew other iterations are coming
Janina - we've gone through a lot of GitHub issues previously, if this isn't the final, it's close. If we don't have any sense of coming to a published conclusion, I'm not sure what we're doing here. There may be a 1.1 or 1.2, etc. some day. What are we going to do to get this working in the world, as a published state as 1.0.
David - this is first publication, this is a natural process and will all work out
David - reviewing comments from Jeff's email, I do use a lot of descriptors but I'm fine making it shorter.
David - editing on the fly
Janina - this is hard for me to follow
David - I will read original
Janina - add in Jeff's edits
David - reading original and Jeff's edits
Jeff - there were too many descriptors in that one long sentence. Do we need to put all that stuff in there? We aren't trying to be too detailed in covering this
Janina - this is not worth the time we're putting into it. Either version is a good one. It will be edited by Shawn. Let's limit the time we spend on this. Let's focus on closing GitHub issues.
David - then we'll make one version and propose it to the group.
Jeff - I thought Dr. Keith's version was good as well
Dr Keith - I agree
David - I'll create two versions, and we'll figure out which one we want to send to Shawn. I hope to have the ISO document reviewed and commented on by then
David - we will vote on the two versions
GitHub Issue #98 'Stages' or 'levels'?
<gb> /issues/98 -> #98
<Dr_Keith> have to drop. See you next week!
David - we started this last week and didn't have time to finish it.
David - this is referring to stages or levels. We are toggling back and forth between the two in the document. Some were good with levels but we didn't come to a decision.
<Fazio> w3c/
<gb> Issue 98 'Stages' or 'levels'? (by jake-abma)
David - Jeff mentioned a lot of other teams use the term "levels"
Janina - if there is common practice, that's worth adopting
<Fazio> Levels?
Mark - I made the comment about levels, I propose we update the document to anything that refers to stage to level
Jeff - "being in stage 3 cancer" is a bunch of characteristics go together
Janina - this isn't cancer, what do other maturity models do?
David - we may not get to resolve this one on the call
Janina - you asked the right question, are we meaning different things with the same words
David - reading through the document to compare stages v. level introduction and usage
Janina - a stage with multiple levels gets you to a stage, this is not accurate if my understanding is right
Mark - we're just interchanging the terms throughout the document
Janina - this happens in creative writing
Jeff - there is 23 matches for "stage" and 65 matches for "level"
<Fazio> Maturity stages, with definitions and expected outcomes to help organizations assess and report on the level of accessibility maturity attained for the dimension. The maturity stages indicate what is needed to reach full maturity for that dimension.
Mark - we're mixing two different thoughts and activities, 1 - what are we calling four different levels you can progress through, 2 - there may be places we do want to use stage vs. level. Do we need to worry about if we are not referring to a "change in level" as what's described by this maturity model. Do we need to worry about which one of the
two words we're using?
Jeff - we used some terms previously we didn't like
David - let's move forward on stage v. level; maturity stage and maturity level are the same thing; one is the other
David - stage and level both have definition of outcomes, we use them interchangably
Janina - then we need to name them the same thing
Janina - what does the rest of the document say?
David - reading through document; whichever term we use, this section still won't make a lot of sense (beginning defining section of the doc)
David and Janina - discussing introduction of terms in the document
David - I suggest we take out the first sentence
Mark - Janina is asking what are we calling X, David is trying to reword the character, we need to define our activity rightnow
David - we can fix this by saying "maturity stages" or "maturity levels" are defined as outcomes for that dimension
David - first sentence is problematic because you can't state it without both words
Janina - we're defining a taxinomical term
Jeff - proposing an edit to get rid of the word level within the starting sentence
Jeff - use "report progress" instead of level
Janina - instead of progress, this is a status assessment
David - agreed
David - leaving in the word stage...rereads the sentence
<Fazio> Maturity stages, with definitions and expected outcomes to help organizations assess and report on the status of accessibility maturity attained for the dimension. The maturity stages indicate what is needed to reach full maturity for that dimension.
<Fazio> Maturity stages, with definitions and expected outcomes to help organizations assess and report on the level of accessibility maturity attained for the dimension. The maturity stages indicate what is needed to reach full maturity for that dimension.
<Fazio> Maturity level, with definitions and expected outcomes to help organizations assess and report on the status of accessibility maturity attained for the dimension. The maturity stages indicate what is needed to reach full maturity for that dimension.
<Fazio> Maturity level, with definitions and expected outcomes to help organizations assess and report on the status of accessibility maturity attained for the dimension. The maturity level indicate what is needed to reach full maturity for that dimension.
<Mark_Miller> Level
<NehaJ> level
level
<Fazio> level
<janina> +level
Janina - we're in the red zone for time
Jeff - I volunteer to replace the word in the excel assessment tool
David - I will work on getting this done in GitHub
David - we will reword bullet #2 in maturity model structure
<gb> /issues/2 -> #2
David - all for today, we are down to 23 issues
Jeff - we have State of Texas DIR and several agencies are going to do an assessment using our maturity model, we'll be able to get some good data points on the use and the worksheet. Within the next couple months we should have input on that.
David - if we could get public comment, that would be super helpful
Jeff - if there are things, they can put it into GibHub
David - might be some legal hoops to get a comment, but would be great to get one