IRC log of wcag2ict on 2024-08-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:24:10 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
- 13:24:14 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/08/08-wcag2ict-irc
- 13:24:14 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 13:24:15 [Zakim]
- Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
- 13:24:16 [maryjom]
- zakim, clear agenda
- 13:24:16 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 13:24:22 [maryjom]
- chair: Mary Jo Mueller
- 13:24:32 [maryjom]
- Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
- 13:24:32 [Zakim]
- ok, maryjom
- 13:26:06 [maryjom]
- regrets: Fernanda Bonnin
- 13:26:14 [maryjom]
- Agenda+ Announcements
- 13:26:20 [maryjom]
- Agenda+ Mobile TF discussion on interpretation of success criteria applicable to "sets of software"
- 13:26:25 [maryjom]
- Agenda+ Survey results: (Group 1) Review changes due to comments on second public draft
- 13:45:28 [maryjom]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:45:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/08-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
- 13:59:06 [PhilDay]
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- 13:59:10 [PhilDay]
- present+
- 13:59:31 [Mike_Pluke]
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- 13:59:33 [ChrisLoiselle]
- present+
- 14:00:10 [Mike_Pluke]
- present+
- 14:00:27 [bruce_bailey]
- bruce_bailey has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:00:43 [PhilDay]
- scribe+ PhilDay
- 14:00:45 [olivia]
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- 14:00:47 [PhilDay]
- agenda?
- 14:00:52 [olivia]
- present+
- 14:00:59 [shadi]
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- 14:01:06 [shadi]
- present+
- 14:02:05 [PhilDay]
- zakim, next item
- 14:02:05 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
- 14:02:31 [maryjom]
- present+
- 14:02:41 [PhilDay]
- We were going to discuss some input from the mobile task force, but may need to reschedule
- 14:02:45 [bruce_bailey]
- present+
- 14:02:54 [PhilDay]
- Comment period for our latest draft on Tuesday. We have received a few more comments
- 14:03:14 [Devanshu]
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- 14:03:26 [maryjom]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6ruxbOKxAU6aWWz9Ac7P8DMi7lrIwXCy5DgvRzQZA4/edit?usp=sharing
- 14:03:28 [PhilDay]
- ... They don't seem very involved, but we will still need people on the TF to work on each issue. Please work in the Google doc with draft responses and text
- 14:04:05 [bruce_bailey]
- q+ for awe
- 14:04:20 [maryjom]
- ack bruce_bailey
- 14:04:20 [Zakim]
- bruce_bailey, you wanted to discuss awe
- 14:04:33 [PhilDay]
- bruce_bailey: Kudos to Mary Jo for managing to run the meeting, and keeping things organised
- 14:04:43 [Devanshu]
- present+
- 14:04:49 [Bryan_Trogdon]
- Bryan_Trogdon has joined #WCAG2ICT
- 14:04:49 [PhilDay]
- zakim, next item
- 14:04:49 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- Mobile TF discussion on interpretation of success criteria applicable to "sets of software" -- taken up [from maryjom]
- 14:04:57 [Bryan_Trogdon]
- present+
- 14:06:09 [PhilDay]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-public-comments-july/
- 14:06:49 [PhilDay]
- bruce_bailey: Believe we only had 1 item that was ready for survey - issues were updated.
- 14:06:56 [PhilDay]
- In the GitHub issue
- 14:07:33 [PhilDay]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 14:07:33 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Survey results: (Group 1) Review changes due to comments on second public draft -- taken up [from maryjom]
- 14:07:43 [PhilDay]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-public-comments-july/
- 14:07:46 [maryjom]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-public-comments-july/results
- 14:07:52 [mitch11]
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- 14:08:41 [maryjom]
- TOPIC: Question 3, Issue 414 – Issues with the ‘platform software’ notes for 2.5.1, 2.5.2, and 2.5.7
- 14:08:50 [maryjom]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-public-comments-july/results#xq3
- 14:08:51 [PhilDay]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-public-comments-july/results#xq3
- 14:09:03 [maryjom]
- Issue 431 link: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/414
- 14:09:21 [maryjom]
- Google doc link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6ruxbOKxAU6aWWz9Ac7P8DMi7lrIwXCy5DgvRzQZA4/edit#heading=h.mxhxpsox3ppu
- 14:09:26 [PhilDay]
- 5 said option 2 is ready to merge as is.
- 14:09:56 [GreggVan]
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- 14:10:07 [PhilDay]
- Apologies from Mary Jo for any confusion over location in the Google Doc - sometimes the direct links don't seem to take you to the correct location
- 14:10:24 [PhilDay]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6ruxbOKxAU6aWWz9Ac7P8DMi7lrIwXCy5DgvRzQZA4/edit#heading=h.mxhxpsox3ppu
- 14:10:25 [PhilDay]
- https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/414
- 14:10:31 [PhilDay]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-public-comments-july/results#xq3
- 14:10:36 [GreggVan]
- present+
- 14:10:46 [bruce_bailey]
- +1 that links to right heading in Google Doc was flaky
- 14:12:13 [PhilDay]
- GreggVan: If everyone else is happy with option 2, happy to go with it - I just couldn't untangle it. No big issue with it
- 14:13:20 [PhilDay]
- Option 2 (Note 5): Use Note 5 only for applications that are not platform software
- 14:13:20 [PhilDay]
- Note 5: This requirement applies to [software applications that interpret] pointer actions (i.e. this does not apply to actions that are required to operate the [underlying platform software] or assistive technology).
- 14:13:44 [bruce_bailey]
- minutes from last week: https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wcag2ict-minutes.html
- 14:13:55 [maryjom]
- DRAFT RESOLUTION: Incorporate the changes to ‘platform software’ notes in 2.5.1, 2.5.2 and 2.5.7 using option 2, as-is.
- 14:14:04 [PhilDay]
- Option 2 (Note 6): Use Note 6 for all platform software
- 14:14:04 [PhilDay]
- This would be an additional Note (and would no longer be mentioned in the word substitutions). The verbiage for the word substitutions would be:
- 14:14:04 [PhilDay]
- This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.5.2, making changes to the notes for non-web documents by replacing “web content” with "content", for non-web software applications by replacing "web content that interprets" with "user agents and other software applications that interpret" and
- 14:14:04 [PhilDay]
- "user agent" with "underlying platform software".
- 14:14:06 [PhilDay]
- And verbiage for Note 6 would be:
- 14:14:06 [PhilDay]
- Note 6: This requirement also applies to [platform software], such as user agents, assistive technology software, and operating systems. Each layer is responsible for its own pointer actions only, not for those in an underlying layer.
- 14:14:07 [PhilDay]
- +1
- 14:14:12 [mitch11]
- +1
- 14:14:14 [mitch11]
- present+
- 14:14:41 [PhilDay]
- Similar changes will be made to all the relevant SCs (2.5.1, 2.5.2, and 2.5.7)
- 14:14:49 [GreggVan]
- +1
- 14:14:49 [olivia]
- +1
- 14:14:49 [shadi]
- +1
- 14:14:52 [Chuck]
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- 14:14:54 [Devanshu]
- +1
- 14:14:58 [Bryan_Trogdon]
- +1
- 14:14:58 [bruce_bailey]
- +1
- 14:14:59 [ChrisLoiselle]
- +1
- 14:14:59 [Chuck]
- present+
- 14:15:01 [Mike_Pluke]
- +1
- 14:15:44 [maryjom]
- RESOLUTION: Incorporate the changes to ‘platform software’ notes in 2.5.1, 2.5.2 and 2.5.7 using option 2, as-is.
- 14:15:57 [maryjom]
- TOPIC: Question 5, Issue 428 – SC Problematic for Closed Functionality – add 3.2.6 Consistent Help
- 14:16:30 [PhilDay]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-public-comments-july/results#xq5
- 14:16:42 [PhilDay]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6ruxbOKxAU6aWWz9Ac7P8DMi7lrIwXCy5DgvRzQZA4/edit#heading=h.30h4ihscud8j
- 14:16:42 [maryjom]
- q5 survey results: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-public-comments-july/results#xq5
- 14:17:04 [maryjom]
- Issue 428 link: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/428
- 14:17:38 [PhilDay]
- 6 said option 1 is ready to merge as is
- 14:18:36 [JJ]
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- 14:18:39 [PhilDay]
- Option 1: Add in 2.5.2 using text similar to 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks
- 14:18:39 [PhilDay]
- 3.2.6 Consistent Help — The WCAG2ICT interpretation of this success criterion replaces "sets of Web pages" with "sets of software programs" which are extremely rare - especially for closed functionality software. However, providing consistent access to help is generally considered best practice.
- 14:18:44 [maryjom]
- DRAFT RESOLUTION: Incorporate the bullet for 3.2.6 Consistent Help into the SC problematic for closed functionality, as proposed.
- 14:18:48 [PhilDay]
- +1
- 14:18:49 [GreggVan]
- +1
- 14:18:51 [bruce_bailey]
- +1
- 14:18:52 [mitch11]
- +1
- 14:18:52 [olivia]
- +1
- 14:18:53 [Mike_Pluke]
- +1
- 14:18:53 [Bryan_Trogdon]
- +1
- 14:18:54 [ChrisLoiselle]
- +1
- 14:18:56 [shadi]
- +1
- 14:18:58 [JJ]
- present+
- 14:19:08 [maryjom]
- RESOLUTION: Incorporate the bullet for 3.2.6 Consistent Help into the SC problematic for closed functionality, as proposed.
- 14:19:24 [PhilDay]
- zakim, take up item 2
- 14:19:24 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- Mobile TF discussion on interpretation of success criteria applicable to "sets of software" -- taken up [from maryjom]
- 14:19:47 [PhilDay]
- Welcome to Jan, who is going to give an overview of input from the Mobile task force
- 14:20:34 [PhilDay]
- Jan Jaap de Groot - usually goes by JJ. Facilitator of Mobile Task Force, with special focus on mobile apps (including embedded in)
- 14:21:27 [PhilDay]
- Looking at WCAG2ICT to see if it can be directly applied to apps for each SC
- 14:21:58 [PhilDay]
- Particular issues is with the sets of software criteria - which do apply in a mobile app context
- 14:22:06 [PhilDay]
- s/is/are
- 14:22:08 [bruce_bailey]
- MATF https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/groups/task-forces/matf/
- 14:22:26 [JJ]
- MATF issues: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues
- 14:22:50 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: Think the other topic was page titled
- 14:22:54 [PhilDay]
- TOPIC: Page Titled
- 14:23:10 [PhilDay]
- WCAG: All web pages should have a title.
- 14:23:39 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 14:23:41 [PhilDay]
- WCAG2ICT: is it the name of the application, or the window of the application? In apps it is helpful to have titles for each screen (in navigation bar or top of content)
- 14:23:54 [PhilDay]
- (Above comments were from JJ)
- 14:24:20 [PhilDay]
- If we were to make a change to this it would have an impact to other "sets of..." SCs
- 14:24:32 [GreggVan]
- q-
- 14:24:45 [PhilDay]
- JJ: It is difficult to define what is a screen vs what is a view
- 14:24:57 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 14:25:16 [maryjom]
- ack GreggVan
- 14:25:19 [PhilDay]
- JJ: Do we want to try and define it again for WCAG2ICT, or just do it in the Mobile Task force and not try and consider the wider ICT like kiosks
- 14:26:04 [PhilDay]
- GreggVan: Started this discussion with the 2013 WCAG2ICT - very difficult to work out what a view is - content changes on screen, but the whole screen may not change. There is no single, stable "view'.
- 14:26:28 [bruce_bailey]
- Page Title is one of our open issues: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/437
- 14:26:37 [PhilDay]
- GreggVan: One app may be very page like, but another app may not have a page-by-page navigation style
- 14:26:53 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:26:59 [PhilDay]
- ... In a web page it was easy - but in an application it is more difficult
- 14:27:42 [shadi]
- q-
- 14:27:43 [PhilDay]
- GreggVan: That's where the "sets of" came from - sets gathered under different URLs.
- 14:27:46 [PhilDay]
- q?
- 14:28:03 [PhilDay]
- JJ: Even if you limit the scope just to mobile apps it is still difficult
- 14:28:30 [Mike_Pluke]
- q+
- 14:28:52 [maryjom]
- ack Mike_Pluke
- 14:29:09 [bruce_bailey]
- s/Page Title/SC 2.4.2 Page Titled
- 14:29:27 [PhilDay]
- Mike_Pluke: I would also like to find a suitable equivalent to view, but we also struggled
- 14:29:32 [ChrisLoiselle]
- https://www.w3.org/2003/glossary/keyword/All/view.html?keywords=view may be dated, but for what I have understanding of, this may be helpful or not
- 14:29:36 [PhilDay]
- ... and haven't found it yet
- 14:30:11 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: Difficulty is applying to all types of software (including closed systems)
- 14:30:15 [ChrisLoiselle]
- q+
- 14:30:45 [PhilDay]
- ... You have applications which may manage a process -single purpose apps - it is self evident what the application does, so each view does not need to be titled.
- 14:30:54 [PhilDay]
- q?
- 14:31:00 [maryjom]
- ack ChrisLoiselle
- 14:31:20 [PhilDay]
- ChrisLoiselle: There was a glossary link - added above. This is what W3C has currently on view, viewport etc.
- 14:31:32 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 14:31:40 [Chuck]
- ack Gregg
- 14:32:01 [PhilDay]
- GreggVan: View could be thought of as a mode. Different to the W3C definition of view.
- 14:32:11 [PhilDay]
- ... Page view rather than Print view...
- 14:34:06 [Mike_Pluke]
- Mike_Pluke has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:34:12 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 14:34:19 [PhilDay]
- Current draft content on this is at https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-2-4-2-page-titled-to-non-web-documents-and-software
- 14:34:20 [Mike_Pluke]
- Q+
- 14:34:24 [maryjom]
- ack GreggVan
- 14:34:29 [JJ]
- q+
- 14:34:48 [PhilDay]
- GreggVan: Closest parallel is a change of context - so if you change a context, you should notify the user
- 14:35:06 [PhilDay]
- Content copied from the latest WCAG2ICT editor's draft
- 14:35:07 [PhilDay]
- Applying SC 2.4.2 Page Titled to Non-Web Documents and Software
- 14:35:09 [PhilDay]
- This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.4.2 replacing “Web pages” with “non-web documents or software”.
- 14:35:09 [PhilDay]
- With this substitution, it would read:
- 14:35:09 [PhilDay]
- 2.4.2 Page Titled: [Non-web documents or software] have titles that describe topic or purpose.
- 14:35:09 [PhilDay]
- NOTE 1
- 14:35:09 [PhilDay]
- As described in the WCAG intent, the name of a non-web software application or non-web document (e.g. document, media file, etc.) is a sufficient title if it describes the topic or purpose.
- 14:35:09 [PhilDay]
- NOTE 2
- 14:35:10 [PhilDay]
- See also the Comments on Closed Functionality.
- 14:35:31 [bruce_bailey]
- q+ to note proposal on GitHub
- 14:35:55 [PhilDay]
- q?
- 14:35:57 [maryjom]
- ack Mike_Pluke
- 14:36:09 [shadi]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#dfn-change-of-context
- 14:36:41 [PhilDay]
- Mike_Pluke: This is a thorny issue - sometimes you can remove "set of" and just look at within an application. Task force can't do that as it is changing the meaning of the original SC
- 14:37:09 [PhilDay]
- Mike_Pluke: The team have been looking at this within the EN 301 549 committee - but they are able to reinterpret SCs
- 14:37:27 [PhilDay]
- q?
- 14:37:28 [maryjom]
- ack jj
- 14:37:35 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 14:38:02 [PhilDay]
- jj: Wonder how you would test this - firstly on a web page, with a multi-step form. Would this mean that the title changes for each step/field?
- 14:38:18 [PhilDay]
- ... This is a similar problem for web apps.
- 14:38:38 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: If the URL does not change - this requirement does not require each step.
- 14:39:02 [PhilDay]
- jj: Would be useful if this was covered for web apps, then we may be able to apply this more broadly
- 14:39:18 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: WCAG2ICT are not able to extend what is covered in WCAG.
- 14:39:24 [PhilDay]
- ... So changes need to be done in WCAG
- 14:39:32 [Chuck]
- +1 this would go outside of our charter
- 14:39:39 [PhilDay]
- ... Then we would apply these changed requirements in WCAG more broadly to ICT
- 14:39:44 [PhilDay]
- q?
- 14:39:49 [maryjom]
- ack bruce_bailey
- 14:39:49 [Zakim]
- bruce_bailey, you wanted to note proposal on GitHub
- 14:39:50 [bruce_bailey]
- https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/437#issuecomment-2250406007
- 14:39:57 [bruce_bailey]
- Note: When software content is presented as separate screens that resemble pages, and the technology supports a separate title for each screen, it is a best practice to provide screen titles and ensure that they describe the topic or purpose of each screen. Where screen titles are provided, a title for the overall software program is still
- 14:39:57 [bruce_bailey]
- necessary.
- 14:40:04 [PhilDay]
- bruce_bailey: Mitch added a note on this issue -link above
- 14:41:27 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: Thinks she has also done something related in the Google Doc, which JJ and others in the mobile task force may not have access to
- 14:41:38 [maryjom]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6ruxbOKxAU6aWWz9Ac7P8DMi7lrIwXCy5DgvRzQZA4/edit#heading=h.4h2q2jf1kbio
- 14:41:58 [maryjom]
- q?
- 14:42:01 [maryjom]
- ack GreggVan
- 14:42:06 [PhilDay]
- Text from the Google doc:
- 14:42:07 [PhilDay]
- Option 1: New note indicating “best practice”
- 14:42:07 [PhilDay]
- One possible addition could be a note that is similar to what is added to “sets of” criteria:
- 14:42:07 [PhilDay]
- Note: Although not required by this success criterion, ensuring that individual windows or screens have a title that describes the topic or purpose addresses the user needs identified in the Understanding Success Criterion 2.4.2 Intent section, and is generally considered a best practice.
- 14:42:07 [PhilDay]
- Option 2: Mitch’s alternate proposal from his Issue 437 comment
- 14:42:09 [PhilDay]
- Note: When software content is presented as separate screens that resemble pages, and the technology supports a separate title for each screen, it is a best practice to provide screen titles and ensure that they describe the topic or purpose of each screen. tWhere screen titles are provided, a title for the overall software program is still
- 14:42:09 [PhilDay]
- necessary.
- 14:42:38 [PhilDay]
- GreggVan: Change of context is covered in 3 separate SCs.
- 14:43:26 [PhilDay]
- ... We can't add something that is not there in WCAG2ICT. But could consider "if there is a change of context, there should be a notification of what has happened"
- 14:44:29 [PhilDay]
- SC 2.4.4, 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.2.5
- 14:44:35 [JJ]
- q+
- 14:44:44 [maryjom]
- ack jj
- 14:44:49 [Mike_Pluke]
- Mike_Pluke has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:44:58 [Mike_Pluke]
- Q+
- 14:45:24 [maryjom]
- ack Mike_Pluke
- 14:45:24 [PhilDay]
- jj: Change of context - may be a way to cover this problem. When a change of context happens - either by the user or the system - have to check if the page/software has a title that describes the change of context
- 14:45:34 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 14:45:41 [PhilDay]
- Mike_Pluke: Suspect we will hit a similar problem with change of context as we have with change in views
- 14:46:01 [PhilDay]
- ... Obvious question is what constitutes a change of context
- 14:46:10 [PhilDay]
- q?
- 14:46:28 [PhilDay]
- ... So not sure if it solves the problem
- 14:46:36 [maryjom]
- ack GreggVan
- 14:46:41 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: May be better to phrase it as best practice where feasible
- 14:47:13 [mitch11]
- q+
- 14:47:41 [PhilDay]
- GreggVan: Agree with Mike. It's the only thing that I could think of, but it does get messy. What is the threshold for change of context? Also in apps, you don't have a new page ever - so there is nothing to give a title to. So it doesn't work for me.
- 14:48:00 [maryjom]
- ack mitch
- 14:48:26 [PhilDay]
- mitch11: Agree - change of context requires human judgement more than a definition of a page (resource at a URI)
- 14:49:48 [bruce_bailey]
- I think threshold for change of context may be a good item for wcag2-Issues tf. (not that it would be solved faster there than here)
- 14:49:50 [PhilDay]
- mitch11: If we were willing to do a substitution for page that makes it more objective - but we would still have to take the definition and use in other places. May be well suited to consistent identification. It would still have problems with Page Titled.
- 14:49:55 [JJ]
- change of context includes "4. content that changes the meaning of the Web page" - you likely need a new title. The other three listed are user agent, viewport, focus - the title is usually still descriptive enough
- 14:50:10 [ChrisLoiselle]
- reference on discussion https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Understanding/on-input.html#dfn-changes-of-context
- 14:50:18 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: Think we have discussed Page Titled enough.
- 14:50:27 [PhilDay]
- TOPIC: "Sets of" criteria
- 14:50:35 [mitch11]
- s/for page that makes it more objective/for page that makes it more subjective/
- 14:51:51 [PhilDay]
- jj: Bypass blocks, multiple ways doesn't make much sense. So pick consistent navigation, identification, or help.
- 14:52:03 [Mike_Pluke]
- Q+
- 14:52:05 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: Start with Consistent Identification
- 14:52:16 [maryjom]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#consistent-identification
- 14:52:46 [PhilDay]
- https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-3-2-4-consistent-identification-to-non-web-documents-and-software
- 14:52:55 [maryjom]
- https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#consistent-identification
- 14:52:56 [bruce_bailey]
- q+ for time check
- 14:53:21 [PhilDay]
- Applying SC 3.2.4 Consistent Identification to Non-Web Documents and Software
- 14:53:21 [PhilDay]
- This applies directly as written and described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 3.2.4, replacing “set of web pages” with “set of non-web documents” and “set of software programs”.
- 14:53:21 [PhilDay]
- With these substitutions, it would read:
- 14:53:21 [PhilDay]
- (for non-web documents)
- 14:53:23 [PhilDay]
- 3.2.4 Consistent Identification: Components that have the same functionality within a [set of non-web documents] are identified consistently.
- 14:53:23 [PhilDay]
- (for software programs)
- 14:53:23 [PhilDay]
- 3.2.4 Consistent Identification: Components that have the same functionality within a [set of software programs] are identified consistently.
- 14:53:24 [PhilDay]
- NOTE 1
- 14:53:24 [PhilDay]
- See set of documents and set of software programs in the Key Terms section to determine when a group of documents or software programs is considered a set for this success criterion. (Sets of software that meet this definition appear to be extremely rare.) Those implementing this document (WCAG2ICT) will need to consider if this success criterion
- 14:53:24 [PhilDay]
- is appropriate to apply to non-web documents and software. See the Interpretation of Web Terminology in a Non-web Context.
- 14:53:25 [PhilDay]
- NOTE 2
- 14:53:25 [PhilDay]
- Although not required by this success criterion, ensuring that component identification be consistent when they occur more than once within non-web documents or software programs directly addresses user needs identified in the Intent section for this success criterion, and is generally considered best practice.
- 14:53:25 [PhilDay]
- NOTE 3
- 14:53:26 [PhilDay]
- See also the Comments on Closed Functionality.
- 14:53:30 [PhilDay]
- Content above is from WCAG2ICT
- 14:53:30 [maryjom]
- ack Mike_Pluke
- 14:53:56 [PhilDay]
- Mike_Pluke: EN 301 549 team were discussing these ones yesterday. Mike wanted to revisit our exclusion of these in WCAG2ICT
- 14:54:05 [bruce_bailey]
- +1 to mike pluke
- 14:54:16 [PhilDay]
- Mike_Pluke: Consistent identification - just needs to refer to "within the software"
- 14:54:31 [PhilDay]
- ... So EN may create a new requirement (not mapped directly onto WCAG2ICT
- 14:54:49 [PhilDay]
- ... Consistent navigation seems very important, but what constitutes navigation
- 14:54:54 [PhilDay]
- ... is an unresolved question
- 14:54:57 [bruce_bailey]
- RRSagent, draft minutes
- 14:54:59 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/08-wcag2ict-minutes.html bruce_bailey
- 14:55:05 [GreggVan]
- +1 to what Mike just said
- 14:55:10 [maryjom]
- ack bruce_bailey
- 14:55:10 [Zakim]
- bruce_bailey, you wanted to discuss time check
- 14:55:41 [PhilDay]
- seems like we are in agreement that bypass blocks and multiple ways don't make sense for non-web software
- 14:55:44 [GreggVan]
- q+
- 14:55:47 [mitch11]
- q+
- 14:56:09 [maryjom]
- ack GreggVan
- 14:56:40 [PhilDay]
- GreggVan: Soften from "don't make sense" to "not defined clearly enough". They make sense as general principles, but they are not objectively defined
- 14:56:46 [JJ]
- +1
- 14:57:17 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: Sometimes "doesn't always exist" rather than "doesn't make sense". Concept makes sense
- 14:57:18 [bruce_bailey]
- fantastic conversation
- 14:57:54 [maryjom]
- ack mitch11
- 14:57:59 [maryjom]
- ack mitch
- 14:58:42 [PhilDay]
- mitch11: Similar point to Greg - softening. These are less often present in software. Larger screen software (e.g. some tablet and some smart TV apps) may sometimes have these.
- 14:59:20 [PhilDay]
- ... Not suggesting a change to WCAG2ICT. Our response should not be that we are skipping these SCs because they don't matter, just they are not often present.
- 14:59:25 [PhilDay]
- jj: Consistent help.
- 14:59:36 [PhilDay]
- ... Imagine sets of screens in an app.
- 15:00:01 [PhilDay]
- In an app you may go 1 level deeper - then help may not be on the same level as the content
- 15:00:23 [PhilDay]
- jj: So wondering if this would apply - could be problematic
- 15:01:28 [PhilDay]
- maryjom: If there is built-in help, it needs to be presented consistently
- 15:01:59 [PhilDay]
- ... Not sure that we will be changing anything from this discussion. We could consider adding something about best practice for some of these SCs.
- 15:02:21 [PhilDay]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/08-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay
- 15:02:32 [mitch11]
- q+
- 15:02:38 [maryjom]
- ack mitch11
- 15:02:41 [maryjom]
- ack mitch
- 15:03:49 [PhilDay]
- mitch11: Wondering about best practice - could look at these SCs - do we convey the best practice encouragement like we have on the call. If it is there - pull it out in the responses. If it is not - may be useful in EN
- 15:04:18 [PhilDay]
- Mike_Pluke: Focus of EN is requirements, but are starting to add a little more on guidance / best practice
- 15:04:22 [bruce_bailey]
- +1 for just about anything which might be of utility for EN 301 549 drafting !!
- 15:04:25 [PhilDay]
- mitch11: May be an action for the TF
- 15:04:32 [PhilDay]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:04:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/08-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay
- 15:04:47 [JJ]
- Clarification on "the same order relative to other [content]" in Consistent Help would be useful
- 15:04:59 [JJ]
- (in context of software, or sets of software)
- 15:05:12 [PhilDay]
- We will continue to work on the survey, along with working on the open issues. If you have time to take up any open issues and draft content or responses that would be very much appreciated.
- 15:05:42 [PhilDay]
- We will keep JJ in the loop if we add any notes on these SCs
- 15:06:07 [PhilDay]
- JJ: Thanks for including me - I will link to this from Mobile TF.
- 15:06:07 [PhilDay]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:06:08 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/08-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay
- 15:06:18 [maryjom]
- zakim, end meeting
- 15:06:18 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been PhilDay, ChrisLoiselle, Mike_Pluke, olivia, shadi, maryjom, bruce_bailey, Devanshu, Bryan_Trogdon, GreggVan, mitch, Chuck, JJ
- 15:06:23 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
- 15:06:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/08-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
- 15:06:30 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
- 15:06:30 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #wcag2ict
- 15:06:32 [maryjom]
- rrsagent, bye
- 15:06:32 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items