13:03:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-pf
13:04:03 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-irc
13:04:06 <kaz> meeting: WoT Plugfest
13:04:28 <tomo> tomo has joined #wot-pf
13:04:59 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-pf
13:05:02 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-pf
13:05:06 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Daniel_Peintner, David_Ezell, Ege_Korkan, Jan_Romann, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:05:18 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:05:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:05:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:05:33 <kaz> scribenick: McCool
13:05:54 <McCool> seb: plugfest call, started 2wks ago, continue discussion
13:06:15 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Plugfest
13:06:19 <sebastian6> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Wiki_for_WoT_Week_2024_planning#Agenda_%28Draft%29
13:06:33 <McCool> seb: small updates regarding Wed event
13:06:53 <McCool> ... would be nice to use this event to share outcomes of plugfest, and demos
13:06:58 <McCool> ... during coffee break
13:07:07 <kaz> s/htts/-> https/
13:07:19 <kaz> s/%29/%29 WoT Week wiki/
13:07:28 <McCool> ... good time to connect with other attendees
13:07:40 <kaz> i/plugfest/topic: Logistics/
13:07:42 <JKRhb> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:07:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html JKRhb
13:07:50 <EgeKorka_> EgeKorka_ has joined #wot-pf
13:07:58 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
13:08:02 <McCool> seb: perhaps also give everyone a chance to make a short pitch on-stage
13:08:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:08:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:08:24 <kaz> q+
13:08:29 <JKRhb> s/https/-> https/
13:08:40 <JKRhb> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:08:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html JKRhb
13:08:53 <McCool> mm: suggest limiting pitches to 30s
13:08:58 <McCool> seb: that is quite short
13:09:04 <kaz> q?
13:09:18 <McCool> mm: could just set the total time and divide by the number of people
13:09:50 <kaz> ack k
13:09:55 <McCool> mm: suggest also consolidating pitches into a single deck, one slide per pitch
13:10:11 <McCool> seb: makes sense
13:10:44 <kaz> kaz: agree. that's kind of like the lightning talks at AC meetings
13:10:52 <kaz> i/agree/scribenick: kaz/
13:10:55 <kaz> scribenick: McCool
13:11:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:11:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:11:57 <kaz> q+
13:12:16 <EgeKorka_> q+
13:12:49 <McCool> mm: suggest that event managers print posters, and that the slides and posters are the same thing
13:13:16 <McCool> kaz: guess you are thinking about the open event we held at the first workshop
13:13:34 <McCool> seb: there is also a nice youtube video of that event...
13:14:13 <McCool> seb: need to ask the event manager about how to organize logistics
13:14:20 <sebastian6> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k4JufTE9MQ
13:14:48 <McCool> kaz: also... we need to review the minutes...
13:14:59 <McCool> q?
13:15:06 <kaz> q-
13:15:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:15:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:15:41 <kaz> chair: Sebastian
13:15:49 <McCool> topic: Minutes
13:16:07 <McCool> seb: last time - https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-pf-minutes.html
13:16:22 <McCool> ... ege also created a markdown file for detailed planning
13:16:38 <kaz> [ @@@ kaz will move the minutes section to the top later :) ]
13:16:46 <McCool> ... talked about scenarios, including plug&play, OPC UA binding
13:17:02 <McCool> ... also NGSI-LD - we can discuss with them, maybe use cases
13:17:41 <McCool> ... then discussed TD topics; error handling, asynch communication
13:17:54 <McCool> ... then what physical devices we expect people to bring
13:18:08 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot-pf
13:18:20 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
13:18:28 <McCool> ... also, as a result, would be good to create and overview like last time
13:19:32 <McCool> s/and overview/an overview/
13:19:53 <McCool> seb: objections to the minutes?
13:19:55 <McCool> seb: none - approved
13:20:04 <McCool> topic: Posters and Pitches
13:20:27 <McCool> ege: it is possible to print, but hard if it's a mashup only decided on Tuesday
13:20:42 <EgeKorka_> brb
13:20:46 <McCool> seb: I will see if we can print-on-demand on location
13:20:57 <McCool> q+
13:21:08 <JKRhb> s/brb//
13:21:14 <kaz> i|topic:|[ kaz will make the following topic a subtopic of the WoT Week logistics later ]
13:21:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:21:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:21:24 <McCool> mm: another option would be to round up some big screens...
13:21:44 <McCool> topic: Participants
13:21:49 <McCool> q+
13:22:30 <kaz> ack e
13:23:04 <kaz> ack m
13:23:05 <McCool> mm: need to mention that the probability that I can go to WoT Week has been reduced to 10%
13:23:43 <McCool> topic: Plugfest Content
13:23:57 <McCool> seb: linked from the agenda
13:24:11 <McCool> ... David wanted to check on retail scenarios
13:24:42 <McCool> david: still working on it; building cash systems, using AMP, looking for quick on-ramp
13:25:16 <McCool> mm: us-based?
13:25:17 <kaz> q+
13:25:30 <McCool> david: yes, but international, lead dev is in Spain
13:26:21 <McCool> mm: maybe we ask for volunteers to help them
13:26:30 <McCool> seb: may be useful to have some pre-meetings
13:26:35 <McCool> q+
13:26:54 <McCool> david: their system is pretty far-reaching, but for plugfest would demonstrate some key events
13:27:11 <McCool> ... minimize set of use cases
13:27:32 <McCool> mm: you mentioned AMP also; we have not really looked at that yet, but we probably should
13:28:13 <McCool> s/AMP/the AMP messaging protocol/
13:28:28 <McCool> s/AMP/AMQP/
13:28:46 <EgeKorka_> q+
13:28:55 <McCool> seb: we don't have a binding for AMQP yet, but it does fit the same role as MQTT
13:29:29 <McCool> seb: are there other interfaces, e.g. REST or MQTT?  In those cases it would be very simple
13:29:57 <McCool> seb: might be too complicated...
13:29:59 <kaz> q- later
13:30:12 <McCool> mm: on the other hand, the purpose of the plugfest is to look into new use cases
13:30:16 <McCool> seb: true
13:30:36 <McCool> david: for information the company name is ArmorSafe
13:30:53 <McCool> ... is it ok to invite him to this meeting next time?
13:31:04 <McCool> seb: yes, that is not a problem with me
13:31:09 <McCool> mm: also ok with me
13:31:35 <McCool> david: I can also invite people as a trade association
13:32:14 <McCool> ... could also invite them to the CG
13:32:52 <McCool> ... they are also leading the charge to adopt TDs
13:33:21 <McCool> mm: would be good to get a list of protocols in use...
13:33:48 <McCool> seb: next meeting will be in Sept, so next meeting would be in Sept
13:33:52 <McCool> q+
13:34:29 <McCool> mm: to clarify, proposing a plugfest call for Sept 4, and inviting them to that call?
13:34:34 <McCool> seb: yes, exactly
13:34:43 <McCool> ack m
13:34:57 <McCool> david: hottest retail IoT thing right now are shelf labels
13:35:02 <McCool> q+
13:35:25 <McCool> mm: and keeping the prices consistent with the labels...
13:35:43 <kaz> ack mc
13:35:43 <McCool> david: yes, that is very important legally
13:35:45 <McCool> q?
13:36:00 <kaz> ack e
13:36:30 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-pf
13:36:43 <McCool> ege: if they join the actual plugfest, they could work on an AMQP binding - we can write some basic scripts - I do have some experience with it - quite similar to MQTT, as long as they are not using some of the more complex queuing features
13:37:24 <McCool> kaz: are they aware of web payments actitivity?
13:37:27 <McCool> q+
13:37:30 <McCool> q?
13:37:38 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/payment-request/ Payment request API
13:38:11 <McCool> mm: maybe be some connection with online pre-payment
13:38:13 <kaz> ack k
13:38:24 <McCool> david: maybe possible, but semantically
13:38:41 <kaz> q?
13:38:50 <kaz> ack m
13:38:55 <McCool> mm: probably a second-order problem though, suggest focus on iot interfacing
13:39:16 <McCool> topic: TD Topics
13:39:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:39:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:39:36 <McCool> ege: same discussion as last time, no news
13:39:53 <McCool> ... but we are going to prioritize checking existing features
13:40:06 <McCool> ... for new features, three are most important
13:40:18 <EgeKorka_>     Additional Responses
13:40:18 <EgeKorka_>         Error Handling on the application level (Scripting API is connected here)
13:40:18 <EgeKorka_>             would be good to have real world example
13:40:20 <EgeKorka_>         Multiple possible successful responses
13:40:22 <EgeKorka_>             query-able actions?
13:40:24 <EgeKorka_>             in Discovery API are examples where multiple responses are provided
13:40:26 <EgeKorka_>         Default behavior (is it a normal response or is it an additional one)
13:40:28 <EgeKorka_>     Linking between TDs
13:40:30 <EgeKorka_>     Specifying multiple @types to TDs: This is confusing to people. We need more guidance.
13:40:32 <EgeKorka_>     Complex actions: Async and sync
13:40:34 <EgeKorka_>     Meta Operations (top-level form operations): Are they implemented correctly. This will be prioritized and idenfied gaps can be addressed as new meta operations.
13:40:36 <EgeKorka_> from new features
13:40:39 <EgeKorka_> Initial connection
13:40:40 <EgeKorka_> Data Mapping: This topic will be prioritized. It also related to additional responses existing feature mentioned above.
13:40:42 <EgeKorka_> "Normative" Consumer Behavior: Degradation, Expected behavior. Writing what a Consumer is expected to do for a TD. This will be prioritized and its results will be used for the Interoperability Test Suite topic below.
13:40:43 <kaz> i|Additional Res|[[|
13:40:57 <kaz> ]]
13:40:57 <EgeKorka_> brb
13:41:03 <kaz> s/brb//
13:41:08 <McCool> mm: re initial connections, AMQP will probably also need that
13:41:11 <McCool> ege: correct
13:41:13 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:41:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:41:54 <McCool> seb: (updates notes in agenda)
13:41:57 <kaz> i|Additional Responses|scribenick: EgeKorka_|
13:42:07 <kaz> i|re initial co|scribenick: McCool|
13:42:08 <McCool> ... we need to prioritize topics further in Nov
13:42:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:42:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:42:19 <McCool> topic: List of Devices
13:42:28 <McCool> seb: have some news, had meeting with TUM
13:42:34 <kaz> i|[[|scribenick: EgeKorka_|
13:42:36 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:42:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:42:45 <McCool> ... have created a list of devices that they can bring
13:43:05 <McCool> q+
13:43:22 <McCool> seb: including a very interesting advanced device, the HoloLens
13:43:39 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/tree/main/events/2024.11.Munich WoT Week at Munich on GitHub
13:43:53 <McCool> seb: also a robot arm
13:44:05 <kaz> i|also|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/pull/588 PR 588 - Add TUM Things to the device list overview|
13:44:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:44:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:44:14 <McCool> q+
13:44:33 <kaz> q+
13:45:16 <McCool> mm: would be good to have more detail on the "simple" devices - and make sure we have some.  Simple switches and indicators, for instance.
13:45:28 <McCool> ... need to document those also
13:45:49 <McCool> kaz: need to think about what will be tested - initial connections, actions, etc.
13:45:52 <kaz> ack m
13:45:53 <kaz> ack k
13:46:33 <EgeKorka_> q+
13:46:34 <McCool> mm: set of devices does relate the "type" issue
13:46:52 <McCool> seb: ok, would like to merge the TUM contributions to the markdown
13:46:56 <McCool> ... (merges)
13:47:12 <kaz> s/will be tested/will be tested in addition to the device information/
13:47:26 <McCool> q+
13:47:45 <kaz> i/ok/kaz: right. related to the topic on "Orchestration of multiple devices" also./
13:47:52 <kaz> i/right/scribenick: kaz/
13:48:07 <kaz> i/would like to/scribenick: McCool/
13:48:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:48:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:48:21 <kaz> q?
13:48:29 <McCool> mm: should we allow remote participants?
13:48:49 <McCool> ege: related to this, some of these devices from TUM will be remote also
13:48:54 <kaz> s/" also/", which Koster mentioned before too/
13:48:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:48:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:49:04 <McCool> ... and is it a physical or virtual device?
13:49:24 <McCool> ... also, we had some interest from other people who wanted to participate remotely
13:49:54 <kaz> q+
13:50:14 <kaz> ack e
13:50:30 <McCool> ... making devices that are IN Siemens may be difficult
13:50:44 <McCool> mm: could use a local devices with SSH.
13:51:33 <McCool> ... but will need to sort that out, will have many non-Siemens devices
13:51:36 <kaz> ack m
13:52:51 <kaz> ack k
13:53:19 <kaz> kaz: right, so I mentioned potential need for a VPN service for remote connection last time
13:53:27 <kaz> i/right/scribenick: kaz/
13:53:51 <kaz> ... let's think about the basic network setting also
13:53:58 <McCool> seb: will take these various questions to Siemens to figure out what is possible
13:54:06 <kaz> i/will/scribenick: McCool/
13:54:16 <EgeKorka_> q+
13:54:18 <kaz> q+
13:54:43 <McCool> seb: if everyone can provide their details it will help us plan
13:55:03 <McCool> ege: previously we had some folders in github for people to upload things like pictures...
13:55:15 <kaz> ack e
13:55:21 <McCool> ... for TDs and TMs will also need separate folders, validation, etc.
13:56:21 <McCool> kaz: VPN service we used may still be available, will check with System team
13:56:38 <McCool> q+
13:56:46 <kaz> ack k
13:57:17 <McCool> mm: also suggest a pre-flight test for remote participants a couple of weeks in advance
13:57:24 <kaz> ack m
13:57:45 <McCool> seb: agree with pre-flight idea
13:58:17 <EgeKorka_> q`
13:58:17 <EgeKorka_> q+
13:58:23 <kaz> s/q`//
13:58:28 <McCool> seb: when should be have next meeting?
13:58:34 <kaz> ack e
13:58:46 <McCool> mm: (thought we already agreed above to have it on Sept 4)
13:59:04 <McCool> ege: does anybody else know if they are bringing additional devices?
13:59:17 <JKRhb> q+
13:59:26 <McCool> luca: I will probably be bringing something, details to follow
13:59:42 <ktoumura> q+
13:59:44 <McCool> jan: I will probably be bringing something MQTT
13:59:50 <kaz> ack jk
14:00:24 <McCool> seb: regarding next meeting, I will be unavailable Sept 4
14:00:37 <McCool> ege: I will also not be available Sept 4
14:00:47 <McCool> seb: so - suggest the week after, Sept 11.
14:00:54 <ktoumura> q-
14:01:00 <kaz> q+
14:01:10 <JKRhb> s/MQTT/MQTT or CoAP-based (if I can attend)/
14:01:13 <McCool> koster: that is Profile, but we could switch them?
14:01:36 <JKRhb> s/CoAP-based/CoAP-based, and some kind of consumer implemenation/
14:01:37 <kaz> q-
14:01:43 <McCool> kaz: could do plugest on Sept 18.
14:01:51 <JKRhb> s/implemenation/implementation/
14:01:59 <McCool> seb: ok, let's do that, and aim for Sept 18 for the next plugfest meeting.
14:02:05 <kaz> q+
14:02:12 <McCool> ... please create pull requests in the meantime
14:02:18 <kaz> q-
14:02:29 <McCool> kaz: Toumura-san also mentioned would bring a Node-RED consumer
14:02:45 <JKRhb> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html JKRhb
14:02:53 <McCool> seb: adjourn
14:02:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/07-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz