12:59:17 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 12:59:21 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-irc 12:59:31 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2 12:59:42 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan 12:59:46 chair: Ege 12:59:53 rrsagent, make log public 12:59:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:59:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:02:03 Tomo has joined #wot-td 13:02:05 present+ Michael_Koster 13:03:02 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_31_and_August_1%2C_2024 13:05:05 luca_barbato has joined #wot-td 13:05:17 mjk has joined #wot-td 13:06:36 cris has joined #wot-td 13:07:41 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Luca_Barbato, Tomoaki_Mizushima 13:07:44 scribenick: cris 13:08:01 topic: Agenda 13:08:16 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_31_and_August_1%2C_2024 agenda for today 13:08:18 q+ 13:08:19 ege: we will discuss about Bindings and registry requirements analysis 13:08:52 s/about // 13:09:18 q- 13:09:19 q+ 13:09:38 topic: Minutes 13:09:47 -> https://www.w3.org/2024/07/25-wot-td-minutes.html July-25 13:10:06 ege: any remarks on the minutes of previous week? 13:10:07 ack k 13:10:32 q? 13:10:43 ege: minutes approved 13:10:53 https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/377 13:10:56 topic: PRs 13:10:58 https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/377 13:11:08 subtopic: PR 337 13:11:17 -> > https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/377 13:11:27 mk: no comments 13:11:34 s/topic: PRs/topic: Binding Templates/ 13:11:48 ... I approved it 13:11:54 s|-> > https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/377|| 13:11:54 ... we can merge it 13:11:59 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/377|| 13:12:00 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/377|| 13:12:26 ege: merged 13:12:42 i|no comments|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/377 PR 377 BACnet protocol binding improvements| 13:12:46 rrsagent, make log public 13:12:50 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:12:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:12:58 ege: FYI Dougan started working on event support for bacnet binding 13:13:35 subtopic: PR 1201 13:13:46 i/subtopic/topic: Thing Description/ 13:13:47 ege: quick updated 13:14:07 ... luca updated the pictures are requested 13:14:12 s/are/as/ 13:14:15 https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/ege-initial-connection/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md 13:14:43 i|quick upda|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1201 wot PR 1201 - Initial Connection Figures| 13:15:06 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/ege-initial-connection/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/ege-initial-connection/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md Preview of usability-and-design.md| 13:15:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:15:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:15:15 luca: Are SVGs working? 13:15:17 ege: it seems so 13:15:30 luca: then we can convert them 13:15:35 ege: yes 13:16:00 ... just a minor issue, it seems that one of diagrams is duplicated. 13:16:19 ... we will convert all the figure to svg 13:16:26 ... but we can do it asynchronously 13:16:36 q+ 13:17:00 kaz: there is also a broken link 13:17:30 ege: ah right 13:17:43 https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/ege-initial-connection/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/images/initial-connection-Websocket-entities.png 13:18:07 ... I'll fix it too 13:18:21 s/png/png for "Participating Entities"/ 13:18:40 luca: I have the fix for the first problem 13:18:57 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/ege-initial-connection/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/images/initial-connection-Websocket-entities.png for "Participating Entities"/ 13:19:17 ege: not fully fixed 13:19:28 ... we will do it later 13:19:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:19:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:19:48 luca: it should be a caching problem 13:19:57 ege: yes, fixed 13:21:04 topic: Registry requirements 13:21:22 https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/378 13:21:44 i/Registry re/topic: Binding Templates - revisited/ 13:21:45 s/topic: Reg/subtopic: Reg/ 13:21:48 ege: we have different sections in the document 13:22:22 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/378|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/378 wot-binding-templates PR 378 - Registry Requirements Update| 13:22:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:22:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:23:20 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/blob/egekorkan-patch-4/registry-requirements.md Preview of registry-requirements.md 13:23:24 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 13:23:25 ... the entry format section has requirements for the document proposal submission 13:23:41 ... we still need to define the status 13:23:45 ... and the lifecycle 13:24:34 ... the basic requirements will go in the entry format document or other part of the final document to explain our reasoning 13:25:01 ... the final document should have just three major sections 13:25:18 Entry format: what is put into the table and not what the binding should contain. 13:25:18 Lifecycle of entries: how are they submitted, updated, deprecated etc. 13:25:18 Submission Requirements: What the binding has to contain in order to go into the table 13:26:21 ege: any comments on the document basic structure? 13:26:24 q? 13:26:33 ack k 13:26:35 q- 13:27:56 ege: we now move the text contained in the Basic Requirements section to the new structure. 13:29:45 i/Entry format/[[/ 13:29:54 i/any comments on/]]/ 13:30:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:30:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:30:18 ... we had a review about how the whole process should be as objective as possible 13:30:27 ... but it is still to be defined 13:30:42 ... we can build a sort of test suite 13:33:25 ... uri schemes are still under discussion 13:35:03 ... main thing we should decide today is the lifecycle of the entry 13:35:20 ... as an example I can show the TTWG registry 13:35:24 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/blob/186af0fe89d5dcfd33d6d779a104ebf3cb89c3a3/registry-requirements.md Updated preview 13:36:05 https://w3c.github.io/ttwg/boilerplate/registry/#provisional-entry 13:36:55 ... in this group there is a basic lifecycle where you start from provisional or final (note: if you start with final you can't update) 13:37:14 s|https://w3c.github.io/ttwg/boilerplate/registry/#provisional-entry|-> https://w3c.github.io/ttwg/boilerplate/registry/#provisional-entry TTWG Registry Boilerplate - "2.3.1.1.1 Provisional"| 13:37:17 ... if you need to change a final submission you have to deprecate the previous one 13:37:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:37:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:37:40 ege: I personally don't want this for us but it is something we have to think about 13:39:27 i|TTWG R|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/registry-analysis/Readme.md Registry Mechanism Analysis (registry-analysis/Readme.md)| 13:39:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:39:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:39:39 q? 13:39:51 ... regarding URI scheme the summary of the previous discussion is to have a provisional registration in IANA and in the final document have the full IANA registration 13:39:55 q+ 13:39:55 s/want this/want this (=final submission)/ 13:40:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:40:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:40:35 s/in this group/in TTWG/ 13:42:02 i|there is a basic li|-> https://w3c.github.io/ttwg/boilerplate/registry/#final-entry TTWG Registry Boilerplate - "2.3.1.1.2 Final" 13:42:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:42:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:42:28 cris: TTWG workflow is not that bad 13:42:33 ... we can re-use it 13:43:20 .. provisional URI registration is not that bad either if some other version reaches the full registraiton by IANA we can deprecate the binding and move to its final version 13:43:34 s/.. p/...p/ 13:45:03 ege: another point is to discuss what i s the objective mechanism to confirm the entry. 13:45:42 ... draft status requires no check from us but just the correctness of the document 13:45:57 ... for example: has a json schema and maps all the operations 13:46:20 ... but in the final stage we should require some concrete expirience 13:46:23 q+ 13:47:19 ack c 13:47:33 cris: virtual plugfests should be ok too 13:47:56 q+ 13:48:36 q+ 13:48:43 mk: does this means that we will have some assertions from the WoT side? is this practical? what we need to do to make it work? 13:49:31 ... is more along the line of implementation expirience not testing suite 13:49:45 ... a good faith approach 13:49:48 q- 13:50:54 q+ 13:51:32 ack mjk 13:51:35 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:51:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:51:42 ege: +1 13:52:00 jan: I was wondering if there should be some sort of interoperability requirement 13:52:10 ege: valid point 13:52:42 s/what i s/what is/ 13:53:28 s/expirience/experience/ 13:53:41 q+ 13:53:48 q- 13:54:01 ... should we try to ask more than just the submission of a valid thing and consumer? 13:54:48 kaz: W3C process does not require any kind of interoperability testing. but of course it would be nicer to have them. We should be careful when design this kind of testing 13:54:49 ack k 13:55:30 q+ 13:55:58 s/any kind of interoperability testing/interoperability testing using actual multiple implementations/ 13:56:04 s/. but/, but/ 13:56:27 s/nicer to have them/nicer to have that (if possible)/ 13:56:58 cris: I like to have the initial draft not requiring any concrete implementation 13:57:30 ... this should favor an open action to build the implementation of the binding. 13:57:36 s/We should be careful when design this kind of testing/We should be careful about how to deal with the "interoperability testing" within the ordinary implementation report (or possibly within a separate interoperability test report)./ 13:57:37 q+ 13:57:40 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:57:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:59:06 cris: it would be nice to keep discussion about implementation open 13:59:34 ege: yes, but some companies or organizations might have stricter requirement 14:00:35 ege: we got good progress for now 14:01:03 q+ 14:01:08 ack c 14:02:54 kaz: should we add some remark or note (discuss point) about what is the implementation experience to move from initial to final status? 14:03:03 ege: yes, adding a discussion point in the document 14:03:51 s/remark/label/ 14:04:03 [adjourned] 14:04:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:04:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:04:38 EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td 14:05:05 EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td 14:42:16 kaz has joined #wot-td 16:03:41 Zakim has left #wot-td