W3C

– DRAFT –
RDF-star WG biweekly meeting

01 August 2024

Attendees

Present
AndyS, draggett, eBremer, fsasaki, gkellogg, gtw, ktk, ora, pfps, Souri, thomas
Regrets
AZ, doerthe, Dominik_T, enrico, niklas, olaf
Chair
Ora
Scribe
ktk

Meeting minutes

Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: 1 , 2

<ora> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes from 2024-07-18 and 2024-07-25

<gkellogg> +1

<ora> +1

<ktk> +1

<thomas> +1

<AndyS> +1

<gtw> +1

<TallTed> +1

<pfps> +0, could be better

<Souri> +1

RESOLUTION: Approve minutes from 2024-07-18 and 2024-07-25

TPAC 24 3

Ora: We are registered at TPAC.

<pfps> I will listen in, but not be there.

Ora: quick strawpoll, who is planing to attend either remotely or in person

<gkellogg> I'll be there

<AndyS> Will attend - likely remote

<draggett> Will attend remotely

<gtw> I will likely attend.

<TallTed> I'll be remote only ... probably in our meetings, depends on what sessions conflict

I will attend, likely remote

<gkellogg> I will attend in person.

gkellogg: we should doublecheck our slots, there was an overlap with JSON-LD WG

Ora: We have a joint meeting on Tuesday 24 but it looks like the JSON-LD group meeting overlaps with our RDF Star WG on Thursday 26

Ora: We have Tuesday morning and Thursday morning for our meeting

Ora: And a joint meeting with JSON-LD

gkellogg: there are 4 of us that are in both groups

gkellogg: but we could probably leave out the JSON-LD meeting that overlaps with RDF Star on Thursday

Ora: What are we going to do with this meeting? There are likely people joining that are not part of our group. We might want to do explanation and outreach.
… I would like to get clarity on the whole JSON datatype still.

gkellogg: We have to address the concerns from pfps which we have to address.

pfps: IIRC canonicalization is not part of our concern anymore.
… there are other concerns still.

Ora: I hope that we can either fix it or explicitly say it's not our concern.

gkellogg: We can talk about this at TPAC but I think we are in sight of getting done what we are here for and that should be the focus.

<thomas> i will attend on thursday, but not on tuesday

Charter Extension 4

Ora: Where are we with the extension

ktk: The pull request was merged but I'm not sure if it is formally done

draggett: I will try to find out what the status is

gkellogg: I think it needs membership action to get through

ora: I would not have seen an email that would urge the membership to vote
… whatever you could find out draggett would be great

Proposal for next week's discussion

https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/Extending-the-baseline-with-%22asserted%22-stuff

Ora: Enrico proposed some things

AndyS: the other thing we have to get to the bottom to is LPGs
… I don't think we went through that yet and it will recur

thomas: LPG and "unasserted stuff" overlaps

ktk: Topics from enrico: a final vote on singleton properties, and on opaque IRIs

AndyS: for LPG, I don't think we properly articularted what problems we try to solve
… I'm not sure myself what is and isn't the scope

ora: do you have time gtw to articulate some of that

gtw: our goal from Amazon is increasing interop between LPG and RDF Star
… but as Andy said it's not clear where the limit is. Some things might be too far. But I would like to see an increase

<pfps> well, the interop is currently at 100% if you define interop the right way

thomas: I would differentiate between annotations of the statement as an entity on its own right and annotations on individual nodes, especially the property

draggett: I really hope that RDF 1.2 will facilitate semantic interoperability, including LPG
… as a business objective

<Souri> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2024Jul/0155.html

Souri: as I indicated in one of my messages is what exactly are we trying to achieve. We can model LPGs in RDF 1.2 but RDF 1.2 is more powerful so we cannot necessarily model that completely in LGP

ora: I'm happy to see that RDF is more expressive

Souri: we should add the state of the art from the LPG. Make sure that whatever is doable in LGP can be expressed in RDF

fsasaki: What do you mean with annotations on property. Do you mean edges in LPG terminology?

thomas: yes

Ora: candidates for discussion: Resolution on opacity, rule out singleton properties, discuss on where we are going to go with LPG-RDF interop

<AndyS> sounds good

<thomas> +1

<ktk> +1

<Souri> +1

<AndyS> +1

<gkellogg> +1

<fsasaki> +1

<eBremer> +1

Review of pull requests, available at 5

gkellogg: I have 3 open PRs that are IMO ready to merge

pfps: works for me, we can adjust mine after the merge

AndyS: I'm in support of merging the Turtle one (51)
… it makes new starting points better

gkellogg: There is some more work in RDF Turtle but this work should be test case driven.

<AndyS> I've put these into a SPARQL grammar + test cases.

thomas: on naming, how do we call the reified term, is there a conclusion?
… gkellogg did you come to some sort of arrangement?

gkellogg: a reifier is an identifier, that is used for the triple macro. that's what's called a reified triple term.

Issue Triage, available at 6

AndyS: w3c/rdf-star-wg#116 is basically overtaken by Turtle issue 51 we discused

<gb> Issue 116 Determine naming syntax for reifiers (by niklasl) [needs discussion]

AndyS: better to close it then

ora: anything else?

gkellogg: number 114, how does it affect RDF Canonicalization. That's the "unstar" mapping that we have not discussed yet
… it might be mapped to classical RDF reification
… The question is is this working or not. It will not roundtrip

thomas: I would like to have the discussion on how the unstar is mapped. Reification is one way but there are other options. I could add to that issue.

ora: please do then
… any low hanging fruits that need discussion?

<thomas> will add to issue 114

AndyS: Canonical mapping to datatypes, I thought we resolved not to have that.

gkellogg: right

gkellogg: RDF/XML and RDFa at one time had a dependency on that and since moved on.

AndyS: we can resolve that.

gkellogg: I will make a note about that

Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting

<thomas> unasserted assertions

<thomas> @tallted unasserted assertions

<Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask whether we have enough people next week.

<ktk> s/planning/planing/

<ktk> s/JSON data type/JSON datatype/

Summary of resolutions

  1. Approve minutes from 2024-07-18 and 2024-07-25
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 228 (Tue Jul 23 12:57:54 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/sovle/solve/

Succeeded: s/I would differentiate between annotations of the statement as its entity and annoations on individual notes, especially the property/I would differentiate between annotations of the statement as an entity on its own right and annotations on individual nodes, especially the property

Succeeded: s/xxx/annotations on/

Succeeded: s/will reoccur/will recur/

Succeeded: s/intertop/interop/

Failed: s/planning/planing/

Succeeded: s/LGP/LPG/

Failed: s/JSON data type/JSON datatype/

All speakers: AndyS, draggett, fsasaki, gkellogg, gtw, ktk, Ora, pfps, Souri, thomas

Active on IRC: AndyS, draggett, eBremer, fsasaki, gkellogg, gtw, ktk, ora, pfps, Souri, TallTed, thomas