16:00:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:00:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-rdf-star-irc
16:00:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-star
16:01:01 <ktk> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/348e384e-2c0d-4c88-bb5c-5ddddf93ef4d/20240801T120000/
16:01:01 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:01:01 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2024/07/18-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2024/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:01:01 <agendabot> agenda+ TPAC 24 -> 3 https://www.w3.org/2024/09/TPAC/
16:01:02 <agendabot> agenda+ Charter Extension -> 4 https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star-wg-charter/
16:01:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Proposal for next week's discussion
16:01:06 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
16:01:08 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue Triage, available at -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
16:01:11 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
16:01:13 <gkellogg> present+
16:01:19 <TallTed> meeting: RDF-star WG biweekly meeting
16:01:23 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:01:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:01:28 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:01:30 <AndyS> present+
16:01:45 <ktk> present+
16:01:48 <ktk> Chair: Ora
16:01:58 <ktk> scribe: ktk
16:02:03 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-star
16:02:03 <ora> present+
16:02:11 <pfps> present+
16:02:17 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/07/26-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:02:17 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/08/02-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:02:33 <ktk> regrets+ niklas, doerthe, Dominik_T, AZ, enrico
16:02:53 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:02:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:03:01 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
16:03:01 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2024/07/18-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2024/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html --
16:03:01 <Zakim> ... taken up [from agendabot]
16:03:01 <gtw> present+
16:03:04 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
16:03:07 <Souri> present+
16:03:48 <draggett> present+
16:04:00 <ktk> regrets+ olaf
16:04:22 <ora> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes from 2024-07-18 and 2024-07-25
16:04:26 <gkellogg> +1
16:04:27 <ora> +1
16:04:27 <ktk> +1
16:04:28 <thomas> +1
16:04:29 <AndyS> +1
16:04:30 <gtw> +1
16:04:34 <TallTed> +1
16:04:36 <pfps> +0, could be better
16:04:37 <Souri> +1
16:05:26 <ora> RESOLVED: Approve minutes from 2024-07-18 and 2024-07-25
16:05:31 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:05:31 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC 24 -> 3 https://www.w3.org/2024/09/TPAC/ -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:06:17 <ktk> Ora: We are registered at TPAC.
16:06:54 <pfps> I will listen in, but not be there.
16:07:02 <ktk> ... quick strawpoll, who is planing to attend either remotely or in person
16:07:03 <gkellogg> I'll be there
16:07:14 <AndyS> Will attend - likely remote
16:07:31 <draggett> Will attend remotely
16:07:40 <gtw> I will likely attend.
16:08:14 <TallTed> I'll be remote only ... probably in our meetings, depends on what sessions conflict
16:08:16 <ktk> I will attend, likely remote
16:08:20 <gkellogg> I will attend in person.
16:09:11 <ktk> gkellogg: we should doublecheck our slots, there was an overlap with JSON-LD WG
16:10:16 <ktk> Ora: We have a joint meeting on Tuesday 24 but it looks like the JSON-LD group meeting overlaps with our RDF Star WG on Thursday 26
16:11:56 <ktk> Ora: We have Tuesday morning and Thursday morning for our meeting
16:12:03 <ktk> Ora: And a joint meeting with JSON-LD
16:12:17 <ktk> gkellogg: there are 4 of us that are in both groups
16:12:39 <ktk> gkellogg: but we could probably leave out the JSON-LD meeting that overlaps with RDF Star on Thursday
16:13:07 <ktk> Ora: What are we going to do with this meeting? There are likely people joining that are not part of our group. We might want to do explanation and outreach.
16:13:29 <ktk> ... I would like to get clarity on the whole JSON datatype still.
16:13:45 <pfps> q+
16:14:04 <ktk> gkellogg: We have to address the concerns from pfps which we have to address.
16:14:45 <ktk> pfps: IIRC canonicalization is not part of our concern anymore.
16:15:08 <ktk> ... there are other concerns still.
16:15:21 <ktk> Ora: I hope that we can either fix it or explicitly say it's not our concern.
16:16:11 <ktk> gkellogg: We can talk about this at TPAC but I think we are in sight of getting done what we are here for and that should be the focus.
16:16:22 <ora> ack pfps
16:16:50 <eBremer> eBremer has joined #rdf-star
16:17:06 <thomas> i will attend on thursday, but not on tuesday
16:17:48 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:17:48 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Charter Extension -> 4 https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star-wg-charter/ -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:18:01 <eBremer> present+
16:18:58 <fsasaki> present+
16:19:11 <ktk> Ora: Where are we with the extension
16:19:21 <ktk> ktk: The pull request was merged but I'm not sure if it is formally done
16:19:44 <ktk> draggett: I will try to find out what the status is
16:20:26 <ktk> gkellogg: I think it needs membership action to get through
16:20:40 <ktk> ora: I would not have seen an email that would urge the membership to vote
16:21:08 <ktk> ... whatever you could find out draggett would be great
16:21:34 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:21:34 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Proposal for next week's discussion -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:22:32 <AndyS> q+
16:22:42 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/Extending-the-baseline-with-%22asserted%22-stuff
16:22:53 <ora> ack AndyS
16:22:55 <ktk> Ora: Enrico proposed some things
16:23:11 <ktk> AndyS: the other thing we have to get to the bottom to is LPGs
16:23:22 <thomas> q+
16:23:22 <ktk> ... I don't think we went through that yet and it will reoccur
16:23:37 <ora> ack thomas
16:24:09 <ktk> thomas: LPG and "unasserted stuff" overlaps
16:24:40 <ktk> ktk: Topics from enrico: a final vote on singleton properties, and on opaque IRIs
16:25:01 <ktk> AndyS: for LPG, I don't think we properly articularted what problems we try to sovle
16:25:04 <ktk> s/sovle/solve/
16:25:25 <ktk> ... I'm not sure myself what is and isn't the scope
16:25:36 <ktk> ora: do you have time gtw to articulate some of that
16:26:01 <ktk> gtw: our goal from Amazon is increasing interop between LPG and RDF Star
16:26:11 <thomas> q+
16:26:16 <ora> ack thomas
16:26:17 <ktk> ... but as Andy said it's not clear where the limit is. Some things might be too far. But I would like to see an increase
16:26:36 <pfps> well, the intertop is currently at 100% if you define interop the right way
16:26:51 <draggett> q+
16:26:58 <Souri> q+
16:27:55 <ktk> thomas: I would differentiate between annotations of the statement as its entity and annoations on individual notes, especially the property
16:28:12 <ora> ack draggett
16:28:32 <ktk> draggett: I really hope that RDF 1.2 will facilitate semantic interoperability, including LPG
16:28:46 <ora> ack Souri
16:28:49 <ktk> ... as a business objective
16:28:56 <Souri> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2024Jul/0155.html
16:29:44 <ktk> Souri: as I indicated in one of my messages is what exactly are we trying to achieve. We can model LPGs in RDF 1.2 but RDF 1.2 is more powerful so we cannot necessarily model that completely in LGP
16:29:53 <fsasaki> q+
16:30:03 <ktk> ora: I'm happy to see that RDF is more expressive
16:30:17 <thomas> s/I would differentiate between annotations of the statement as its entity and annoations on individual notes, especially the property/I would differentiate between annotations of the statement as an entity on its own right and annotations on individual nodes, especially the property
16:30:34 <ora> ack fsasaki
16:30:37 <ktk> Souri: we should add the state of the art from the LPG. Make sure that whatever is doable in LGP can be expressed in RDF
16:31:28 <ktk> fsasaki: What do you mean with xxx property. Do you mean edges in LGP terminology?
16:31:31 <ktk> thomas: yes
16:31:57 <ktk> s/xxx/annotations on/
16:32:43 <ktk> Ora: candidates for discussion: Resolution on opacity, rule out singleton properties, discuss on where we are going to go with LPG-RDF interop
16:32:51 <AndyS> sounds good
16:32:55 <thomas> +1
16:32:56 <ktk> +1
16:33:03 <Souri> +1
16:33:04 <AndyS> +1
16:33:09 <gkellogg> +1
16:33:13 <fsasaki> +1
16:33:13 <eBremer> +1
16:33:22 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:33:22 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:33:33 <gkellogg> q+
16:34:01 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:34:37 <pfps> q+
16:35:20 <AndyS> q+
16:36:26 <ora> ack pfps
16:36:41 <ktk> gkellogg: I have 3 open PRs that are IMO ready to merge
16:36:49 <ora> ack AndyS
16:36:50 <ktk> pfps: works for me, we can adjust mine after the merge
16:37:05 <ktk> AndyS: I'm in support of merging the Turtle one (51)
16:37:14 <ktk> ... it makes new starting points better
16:37:48 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:37:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:38:13 <gkellogg> q+
16:38:54 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:39:09 <thomas> q+
16:39:17 <ktk> gkellogg: There is some more work in RDF Turtle but this work should be test case driven.
16:39:50 <ora> ack thomas
16:40:14 <AndyS> I've put these into a SPARQL grammar + test cases.
16:40:14 <ktk> thomas: on naming, how do we call the reified term, is there a conclusion?
16:40:29 <ktk> ... gkellogg did you come to some sort of arrangement?
16:40:55 <ktk> gkellogg: a reifier is an identifier, that is used for the triple macro. that's what's called a reified triple term.
16:41:29 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:41:29 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Issue Triage, available at -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:42:23 <ktk> AndyS: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/116 is basically overtaken by Turtle issue 51 we discused
16:42:24 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/116 -> Issue 116 Determine naming syntax for reifiers (by niklasl) [needs discussion]
16:42:32 <ktk> ... better to close it then
16:43:23 <ktk> ora: anything else?
16:44:41 <ktk> gkellogg: number 114, how does it affect RDF Canonicalization. That's the "unstar" mapping that we have not discussed yet
16:45:06 <thomas> q+
16:45:15 <ktk> ... it might be mapped to classical RDF reification
16:45:27 <ktk> ... The question is is this working or not. It will not roundtrip
16:45:56 <ora> ack thomas
16:46:19 <ktk> thomas: I would like to have the discussion on how the unstar is mapped. Reification is one way but there are other options. I could add to that issue.
16:46:28 <ktk> ora: please do then
16:47:08 <ktk> ... any low hanging fruits that need discussion?
16:47:31 <thomas> will add to issue 114
16:47:57 <ktk> AndyS: Canonical mapping to datatypes, I thought we resolved not to have that.
16:48:13 <ktk> gkellogg: right
16:49:08 <ktk> gkellogg: RDF/XML and RDFa at one time had a dependency on that and since moved on.
16:49:50 <ktk> AndyS: we can resolve that.
16:49:57 <ktk> gkellogg: I will make a note about that
16:50:45 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:50:45 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:50:59 <TallTed> q+
16:51:05 <ora> ack TallTed
16:51:21 <thomas> unasserted assertions
16:51:24 <AndyS> q+ to ask whether we have enough people next week.
16:51:48 <thomas> @tallted unasserted assertions
16:51:51 <ora> ack AndyS
16:51:51 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask whether we have enough people next week.
16:54:35 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:54:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:57:03 <ktk> s/will reoccur/will recur/
16:57:50 <ktk> s/intertop/interop/
16:59:49 <ktk> s/planning/planing/
17:00:18 <ktk> s/LGP/LPG/
17:00:36 <ktk> s/JSON data type/JSON datatype/
17:00:47 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:00:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
17:01:40 <ktk> present+ thomas
17:01:44 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:01:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/01-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
17:02:08 <ktk> RRSAgent, leave
17:02:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items