14:09:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:09:18 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-irc
14:09:22 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
14:10:00 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
14:10:10 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Daniel_Peintner, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Mahda_Noura, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:10:20 <kaz> scribenick: mjk
14:10:38 <mjk> topic: agenda
14:10:53 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_31_and_August_1%2C_2024
14:11:41 <mjk> topic: minutes from July 24th
14:11:58 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html July-24
14:12:02 <mjk> s/minutes/review minutes
14:12:05 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:12:14 <mjk> ege: any remarks?
14:12:25 <kaz> chair: Ege
14:12:28 <mjk> ... minutes approved
14:13:33 <kaz> topic: Contributions from Ted Thibodeau
14:13:45 <mjk> topic: PRs from WG non-members
14:13:53 <kaz> s/topic: Contributions from Ted Thibodeau//
14:14:01 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:14:05 <mjk> ege: OK with me, any other opinions?
14:14:40 <mjk> ... we could invite them to join the WG
14:14:53 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:15:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:15:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:15:08 <mjk> kaz: we can review with chairs and send an invitation
14:15:30 <mjk> topic: TD
14:15:46 <kaz> s/review with/quickly check with/
14:15:47 <mjk> subtopic: PR 2035 - PR template
14:16:32 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:16:32 <mjk> ege: this is a template for creating consistent PRs with the required content
14:16:36 <kaz> s/send an invitation/I can send an invitation if the Chairs are OK. In any case, they can join the WoT WG whenever they want since they're W3C Members./
14:16:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:16:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:16:52 <mjk> ... is this reasonable, too much?
14:16:56 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
14:16:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:17:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:17:36 <mjk> cris: what about PRs that don't fall into either category?
14:17:42 <kaz> s/minutes from July/(quick check of the agenda for today)/
14:17:43 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:17:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:18:24 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
14:18:30 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:18:38 <kaz> s/td-review minutes/td-minutes/
14:18:39 <mjk> ege: for example, initial connection could be treated as a new feature in the template
14:18:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:18:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:19:32 <kaz> s/(quick check of the agenda for today)/Minutes from July 24th/
14:19:45 <kaz> i/Minutes from July/(quick check of the agenda for today)/
14:19:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:19:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:19:53 <mjk> ege: no objections, merged
14:20:13 <mjk> subtopic: Tool chain sub TF
14:20:44 <mjk> ege: does anyone want to attend these calls? If so, let Ege know and he will send the invite
14:21:59 <mjk> ege: we have found some limitations in the toolchain work, issues with LinkML that need to go through a resolution process
14:22:18 <mjk> ... in the meantime, we need to add a post processing step
14:22:21 <kaz> i|does anyone|[ Sub TF new slot: Tuesday 14:30 CEST (8:30 EDT) ]|
14:23:42 <mjk> ege: Another issue is what format to use generating text, markdown or direct HTML
14:24:06 <mjk> s/generating/when generating
14:24:16 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:24:36 <mjk> ege: any other discussion on these points?
14:24:50 <mjk> subtopic: Initial connection container
14:25:21 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/ege-initial-connection/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md#reusable-connections
14:25:35 <mjk> ege: PR #1201
14:26:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:26:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:27:06 <cris> q+
14:28:02 <mjk> cris: added some changes to the connection lifecycle diagrams
14:28:14 <kaz> i|added|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1201 wot PR 1201 - Initial Connection Figures|
14:29:27 <kaz> i|added|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/ege-initial-connection/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md Preview|
14:30:38 <mjk> ... for some reason the changes are not showing up
14:31:09 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/c911571983cab8f8997f16c31bb82255449ec65f/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md latest preview
14:32:33 <mjk> ... there is a file duplication problem in the document
14:34:04 <mjk> ege: (makes corrections to the document)
14:34:25 <mjk> ege: Still waiting for Luca's change
14:34:44 <mjk> luca: I will try to do it by tomorrow
14:34:48 <kaz> s/document)/document on the "ege-initial-connection" branch)/
14:37:03 <kaz> s/on the "ege-initial-connection" branch/for "initial-connection-Websocket-entities.png"/
14:37:28 <mjk> luca: also working on the CSS for diagrams
14:38:00 <kaz> q+
14:38:06 <EgeKorkan> ack c
14:38:07 <cris> ack c
14:38:07 <mjk> luca: (PR #2032)
14:39:02 <mjk> kaz: There are 2 approaches to incorporating accessibility checking
14:39:58 <mjk> ... It's a recommendation and not a requirement, but would be an improvement to incorporate
14:40:25 <kaz> ack k
14:40:42 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1248
14:40:46 <mjk> subtopic: initial connection issue #1248
14:41:13 <kaz> s/accessibility checking/accessibility checking, use accessibility-ready generator or check the accessibility later using a checker/
14:41:21 <mjk> ege: Umbrella issue to list the issues with relevant discussion points
14:41:42 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1248||
14:41:48 <mjk> ... Put all the proposals into a HackMD document
14:42:13 <kaz> i|Umbrella|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1248 wot-thing-description Issue 1248 - Reduce intrinsic protocol level redundancy|
14:42:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:42:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:42:46 <mjk> ... Organized the use cases and summarized
14:43:52 <mjk> ... Notable points, shared connection between multiple things, and a wrapper schema for protocol settings
14:44:35 <luca_barbato> q+
14:46:20 <mjk> luca: multiple base definitions and reusable connections overlap and should have one solution
14:47:04 <mjk> ege: the proposal is to remove base and add other features
14:47:36 <mjk> luca: sometimes there is an implicit base derived from the context (source) of the TD
14:47:55 <mjk> ege: issue #977 discusses this
14:48:20 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:48:23 <cris> q+
14:48:50 <mjk> ... any thing missing from the summary?
14:49:04 <mjk> luca: more discussion on what to do with base
14:50:07 <mjk> cris: great summary, thanks. The requirement for all forms to have href may also need to change
14:51:06 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1070#issuecomment-815095825
14:51:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:51:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:51:37 <mjk> ege: See issue #1070
14:51:39 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:51:43 <EgeKorkan> ack l c
14:51:47 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:51:49 <EgeKorkan> ack l
14:51:50 <EgeKorkan> ack c
14:52:19 <mjk> ege: Here is the design proposal
14:52:20 <EgeKorkan> https://hackmd.io/@egekorkan/r1lXdjwtA
14:52:51 <mjk> ... adding a "bases" object
14:53:14 <kaz> i|issue #977|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/977 Issue 977 - Introducing assumptions about TD instances that have no IP addresses|
14:53:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:53:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:53:40 <cris> q+
14:53:52 <mjk> ... added URL templating
14:54:06 <cris> ack c
14:54:42 <mjk> ege: reusing the forms keyword
14:55:41 <mjk> ... connections object
14:55:51 <dape> q+
14:55:57 <cris> q+
14:56:13 <mjk> ... this is the concrete proposal for people to review and build on
14:56:32 <luca_barbato> q+
14:57:48 <mjk> dape: there is a simple case of bases when there is only one base
14:58:07 <mjk> ... it could create a default dependsOn
14:58:37 <dape> ack dape
14:59:52 <mjk> cris: agree, keep the common use case easy
15:01:06 <mjk> ... we should consider relaxing the backward compatibility
15:01:52 <mjk> ... Like the connection design but we could improve the vocabulary
15:02:13 <mjk> ... concepts like sessions and keepalive
15:02:28 <EgeKorkan> 3 more minutes :)
15:02:49 <kaz> s/3 more minutes :)//
15:03:14 <mjk> luca: security schemes are also connections
15:03:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:03:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:03:51 <mjk> ... in TD2 they can be combined
15:04:48 <mjk> .. for example TLS
15:05:00 <kaz> s/.. for/... for/
15:05:26 <mjk> ... also Oauth
15:06:10 <mjk> ege: sharing a security session across connectivity
15:06:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:06:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:06:38 <mjk> s/connectivity/connectivity connections
15:07:25 <mjk> ... there might be a connection without a base
15:07:43 <kaz> q+
15:07:55 <cris> ack c
15:08:18 <kaz> ack k
15:08:30 <mjk> kaz: we need to merge the stories
15:08:57 <kaz> ack k
15:09:11 <mjk> ... it would make sense to create a separate .md
15:09:12 <kaz> ack l
15:09:40 <mjk> ege: we are out of time, meeting adjourned
15:09:53 <kaz> [adjourned]
15:09:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:09:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz