Meeting minutes
<Jem> make minutes
<Jem> /me thanks so much
<Jem> https://
Setup and Review Agenda
Jem: Next meeting: August 6
Jem: Any requests for change to agenda?
Jem: Hearing none, we'll move forward as planned
Publication planning
Matt_King: We plan to do a publication next week
Matt_King: howard-e will be performing the deployment
Matt_King: The changes that we are hoping to include in this release are listed in the following GitHub Milestone: https://
Matt_King: We may not finish #2991 in time for the release w3c/
Matt_King: But what we are still considering is the new patterns page filter, infrastructure for experimental examples, the fix to copying source code, the update to the "coverage and quality" report for the media-query tracking that jongund set up, and an update to the color viewer slider
Matt_King: After that, we'll want to choose a target date for a subsequent publication. I think we'd like a date before TPAC
<Jem> to ask any criteria to review the high contrast settings.
<Jem> https://
Sortable table change request
github: w3c/
Matt_King: This is just a change to punctuation. I think the reporter has good rationale, and as a screen reader user, I agree with the change
Matt_King: In the sortable table, there is a caption for the table that's visual, followed by a comma, and then an off-screen phrase that says "column headers with buttons are sortable"
Matt_King: The reporter is just saying to take the comma out and put parenthesis around the final part since that would work better for translation and would make more grammatical sense
arigilmore: That makes sense to me. I can write a patch for this
Matt_King: Thank you! I'll assign this issue to you, then
New skipto highlighting feature
<jongund> https://
jongund: I've added some new features to skipTo
jongund: Now when you open the menu at the top, it says "skip to content option zero"
jongund: I really appreciate MarkMcCarthy's feedback on this
jongund: The library now highlights the target areas and automatically scrolls to them
jongund: This is based on the implementation experience of others
MarkMcCarthy: It looks great from what I'm seeing on my phone screen, and I'm sure it will look great on the desktop as well
jongund: In addition to the page script, there is now a bookmarklet to install skipTo on any page
jongund: If anyone here is interested in testing the library out on pages that they maintain, you now have a way to do it
jongund: I'd like to also implement this as a browser add-on for each of the major browsers
jongund: I'm also looking for feedback on the touch interface, which I just modified
jongund: You can drag your finger around to navigate that way
Matt_King: I wonder if people would recognize that feature is available
jongund: It's something that I wanted when I was working on it, and that behavior is available in Windows
arigilmore: I just tried it out on my phone, and I like the dragging
Matt_King: Cool! The only aspect about bringing it into APG is testing. We can perform testing in the context of a pull request
Matt_King: After we get this into APG, I would like to revisit the discussion with WAI about getting it available on the entire WAI website, or really, across the entire W3C website
Matt_King: I wonder how well it works on TR pages like specs
jongund: Thanks! I'll create a pull request
Code guide proposals
github: w3c/
Matt_King: I would like to get some people with the right engineering background to review and comment on the proposed changes
Matt_King: I know jongund has already commented
Matt_King: Our code has two goals. One: to use modern coding practices to keep up-to-date with what people expects, and two: to write in such a way to make the accessibility motivations clear
OliverH: This reminds me of the coding practices on StackOverflow
jongund: I'm not so sure about the recommendation to use class fields. I prefer the explicitness of using the "this" keyword, but maybe I'm just set in my way
OliverH: I think it's about reducing redundancy
Matt_King: Sometimes, a little redundancy is helpful because it can be taxing to discern the relevant context from the surrounding code
Matt_King: But then again, I'm not writing JavaScript enough to really weigh in, here
OliverH: I can research what the recommended way to do this and get back to you next week
arigilmore: I agree with what's been said in the issue, leaning more toward what OliverH has been saying. I'll keep an eye on the issue and share my perspective as necessary
Matt_King: Great, then we'll keep this on the agenda for next week
Combobox arrow key behaviors
github: w3c/
Matt_King: I volunteer to take this issue on
Matt_King: I think it's mostly editorial, at least initially. Though we need to get aligned on what we want the pattern to say
Matt_King: There are certain places where the combo box pattern is fairly prescriptive about what the up- and down-arrow keys do when you are at the ends of the grid
Matt_King: The reporter really looked deeply into this and said that the examples and the description of the examples are out-of-sync
Matt_King: My gut reaction is that the pattern might be too prescriptive and that there should potentially be more flexibility in the pattern
Matt_King: I'd like to identify the core questions and then make a proposal
Matt_King: Now, if someone else could do this sooner than me, that'd be pretty awesome
Matt_King: Is there anybody else here who would love to work on this and figure out a way to resolve the discrepancies?
jongund: I can read through it and see
Matt_King: Actually, since you wrote some of these examples, it would be really nice if you could read and express whether or not you think it's a good idea for the examples to diverge from the pattern descriptions
Matt_King: I think this is really about the pattern for now, so I'm going to label the issue accordingly
Jem: I will assign Matt_King and jongund
Matt_King: And I'll place it in the "combo box" project
Matt_King: I know the combo box pattern is used a lot. I don't know how much this aspect of the pattern would trip people up. There's nothing in the report related to the impact; it only points out the problem
Matt_King: Anybody have any thoughts on whether this should be a P1, P2, or P3?
Matt_King: It's definitely not P1 because it isn't blocking anything. So it's really a choice between P2 or P3
jongund: It seems fairly low-priority to me...
Matt_King: Yeah, the only reason I'm considering P2 is the popularity of the "combo box" pattern
Matt_King: I'm going to make it "P3" for now
Matt_King: We'll come back to this one, probably in several weeks
Jem: Here's some information about prioritization and the issue triage process: https://
<Jem> w3c/
More issue triage if time permits
Disclosure Native HTML Example
github: w3c/
Matt_King: We've decided at some point that we would start including native HTML equivalents in APG, or at least talking about them
Matt_King: We haven't really set up any tracker for this work
Matt_King: Though I know there are some related issues...
Matt_King: For instance, #3046 w3c/
Jem: This is a really big question, as Matt_King said. How are we going to harmonize our work with HTML?
Matt_King: We have said that we want to do this over time
Matt_King: After we did the site re-design, and back in our 2020 road-mapping, we said that the scope of the APG should include helping people understand how to do the same things with less ARIA, and to illustrate as well
Matt_King: We also included in that roadmap that we would take over the "using ARIA" document and help sunset that
Matt_King: There are these big piles of increased scope that we could do, but that we haven't put into milestones because they're big lifts without folks available to perform them
Matt_King: There's a project-management piece to this, as well--mapping out which we should do first, etc
Matt_King: ...and understanding "how do we even fit this in?" Like, do we add something to every pattern and also additional examples
Jem: I'd be interested in leading the project if there was another person to help me... We're out of time, though, so why don't we talk about this next week in a dedicated agenda item?
Matt_King: That sounds good