18:01:39 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 18:01:43 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/30-aria-apg-irc 18:01:48 rrsagent, make log public 18:01:55 Zakim, start the meeting 18:01:55 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:01:57 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 18:02:20 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force Weekly Teleconference 18:02:28 present+ jugglinmike 18:02:31 scribe+ jugglinmike 18:03:21 present+ jongund 18:03:35 present+ ariellagilmore 18:03:43 Jem has joined #aria-apg 18:03:46 present+ Jem 18:03:52 make minutes 18:03:56 present+ Oliver_Habersetzer 18:04:01 rrsagent, make minutes 18:04:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/30-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem 18:04:27 /me thanks so much 18:05:34 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/July-30%2C-2024-Agenda 18:08:31 arigilmore has joined #aria-apg 18:08:49 present+ arigilmore 18:08:55 present+ Matt_King 18:14:18 Topic: Setup and Review Agenda 18:14:29 Jem: Next meeting: August 6 18:14:37 Jem: Any requests for change to agenda? 18:14:46 Jem: Hearing none, we'll move forward as planned 18:14:53 Topic: Publication planning 18:15:05 Matt_King: We plan to do a publication next week 18:15:09 OliverH has joined #aria-apg 18:15:24 Matt_King: howard-e will be performing the deployment 18:16:36 Matt_King: The changes that we are hoping to include in this release are listed in the following GitHub Milestone: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/32 18:17:01 Matt_King: We may not finish #2991 in time for the release https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991 18:18:52 Matt_King: But what we are still considering is the new patterns page filter, infrastructure for experimental examples, the fix to copying source code, the update to the "coverage and quality" report for the media-query tracking that jongund set up, and an update to the color viewer slider 18:19:37 Matt_King: After that, we'll want to choose a target date for a subsequent publication. I think we'd like a date before TPAC 18:19:58 oliver has joined #aria-apg 18:21:06 q+ 18:21:26 OliverH has joined #aria-apg 18:21:37 to ask any criteria to review the high contrast settings. 18:23:09 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/32?closed=1 18:23:25 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:23:43 Topic: Sortable table change request 18:23:49 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3066 18:24:02 Siri has joined #aria-apg 18:24:08 Matt_King: This is just a change to punctuation. I think the reporter has good rationale, and as a screen reader user, I agree with the change 18:24:12 present+ 18:24:58 Matt_King: In the sortable table, there is a caption for the table that's visual, followed by a comma, and then an off-screen phrase that says "column headers with buttons are sortable" 18:25:40 Matt_King: The reporter is just saying to take the comma out and put parenthesis around the final part since that would work better for translation and would make more grammatical sense 18:26:00 arigilmore: That makes sense to me. I can write a patch for this 18:26:11 Matt_King: Thank you! I'll assign this issue to you, then 18:27:38 Topic: New skipto highlighting feature 18:27:54 https://skipto-landmarks-headings.github.io/page-script-5/ 18:28:12 jongund: I've added some new features to skipTo 18:28:27 jongund: Now when you open the menu at the top, it says "skip to content option zero" 18:28:57 jongund: I really appreciate Mark_McCarthy's feedback on this 18:29:06 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria-apg 18:29:22 s/Mark_McCarthy/MarkMcCarthy/ 18:29:25 present+ MarkMcCarthy 18:29:59 jongund: The library now highlights the target areas and automatically scrolls to them 18:30:19 jongund: This is based on the implementation experience of others 18:30:41 MarkMcCarthy: It looks great from what I'm seeing on my phone screen, and I'm sure it will look great on the desktop as well 18:31:16 jongund: In addition to the page script, there is now a bookmarklet to install skipTo on any page 18:31:34 jongund: If anyone here is interested in testing the library out on pages that they maintain, you now have a way to do it 18:31:52 jongund: I'd like to also implement this as a browser add-on for each of the major browsers 18:32:33 jongund: I'd also like feedback on the touch interface, which I just modified 18:32:51 s/I'd also like/I'm also looking for/ 18:33:48 jongund: You can drag your finger around to navigate that way 18:34:02 Matt_King: I wonder if people would recognize that feature is available 18:34:29 jongund: It's something that I wanted when I was working on it, and that behavior is available in Windows 18:34:45 arigilmore: I just tried it out on my phone, and I like the dragging 18:35:08 Matt_King: Cool! The only aspect about bringing it into APG is testing. We can perform testing in the context of a pull request 18:35:54 Matt_King: After we get this into APG, I would like to revisit the discussion with WAI about getting it available on the entire WAI website, or really, across the entire W3C website 18:36:11 Matt_King: I wonder how well it works on TR pages like specs 18:36:57 jongund: Thanks! I'll create a pull request 18:37:29 Topic: Code guide proposals 18:37:39 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3060 18:38:03 Matt_King: I would like to get some people with the right engineering background to review and comment on the proposed changes 18:38:26 Matt_King: I know jongund has already commented 18:39:48 Matt_King: Our code has two goals. One: to use modern coding practices to keep up-to-date with what people expects, and two: to write in such a way to make the accessibility motivations clear 18:40:18 OliverH: This reminds me of the coding practices on StackOverflow 18:40:22 present+ OliverH 18:41:29 jongund: I'm not so sure about the recommendation to use class fields. I prefer the explicitness of using the "this" keyword, but maybe I'm just set in my way 18:41:39 OliverH: I think it's about reducing redundancy 18:42:38 Matt_King: Sometimes, a little redundancy is helpful because it can be taxing to discern the relevant context from the surrounding code 18:43:12 Matt_King: But then again, I'm not writing JavaScript enough to really weigh in, here 18:43:33 OliverH: I can research what the recommended way to do this and get back to you next week 18:44:11 arigilmore: I agree with what's been said in the issue, leaning more toward what OliverH has been saying. I'll keep an eye on the issue and share my perspective as necessary 18:44:21 Matt_King: Great, then we'll keep this on the agenda for next week 18:44:30 Topic: Combobox arrow key behaviors 18:44:38 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3061 18:44:48 Matt_King: I volunteer to take this issue on 18:45:18 Matt_King: I think it's mostly editorial, at least initially. Though we need to get aligned on what we want the pattern to say 18:45:53 Matt_King: There are certain places where the combo box pattern is fairly prescriptive about what the up- and down-arrow keys do when you are at the ends of the grid 18:46:18 Matt_King: The reporter really looked deeply into this and said that the examples and the description of the examples are out-of-sync 18:46:41 Matt_King: My gut reaction is that the pattern might be too prescriptive and that there should potentially be more flexibility in the pattern 18:46:54 Matt_King: I'd like to identify the core questions and then make a proposal 18:47:04 Matt_King: Now, if someone else could do this sooner than me, that'd be pretty awesome 18:47:28 Matt_King: Is there anybody else here who would love to work on this and figure out a way to resolve the discrepancies? 18:47:48 jongund: I can read through it and see 18:48:23 Matt_King: Actually, since you wrote some of these examples, it would be really nice if you could read and express whether or not you think it's a good idea for the examples to diverge from the pattern descriptions 18:48:52 Matt_King: I think this is really about the pattern for now, so I'm going to label the issue accordingly 18:49:01 Jem: I will assign Matt_King and jongund 18:49:09 Matt_King: And I'll place it in the "combo box" project 18:50:13 Matt_King: I know the combo box pattern is used a lot. I don't know how much this aspect of the pattern would trip people up. There's nothing in the report related to the impact; it only points out the problem 18:50:25 Matt_King: Anybody have any thoughts on whether this should be a P1, P2, or P3? 18:50:44 Matt_King: It's definitely not P1 because it isn't blocking anything. So it's really a choice between P2 or P3 18:51:25 jongund: It seems fairly low-priority to me... 18:51:32 Matt_King: Yeah, the only reason I'm considering P2 is the popularity of the "combo box" pattern 18:51:38 Matt_King: I'm going to make it "P3" for now 18:52:22 Matt_King: We'll come back to this one, probably in several weeks 18:53:51 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+created%3A%3E2021-08-15+no%3Alabel++sort%3Aupdated-desc 18:53:54 Jem: Here's some information about prioritization and the issue triage process: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Issue-Triage-Process 18:54:16 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2770 18:54:27 Topic: More issue triage if time permits 18:54:40 Subtopic: Disclosure Native HTML Example 18:54:45 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2770 18:55:40 Matt_King: We've decided at some point that we would start including native HTML equivalents in APG, or at least talking about them 18:56:29 Matt_King: We haven't really set up any tracker for this work 18:56:43 Matt_King: Though I know there are some related issues... 18:57:01 Matt_King: For instance, #3046 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3046 18:57:19 Jem: This is a really big question, as Matt_King said. How are we going to harmonize our work with HTML? 18:57:52 Matt_King: We have said that we want to do this over time 18:58:24 Matt_King: After we did the site re-design, and back in our 2020 road-mapping, we said that the scope of the APG should include helping people understand how to do the same things with less ARIA, and to illustrate as well 18:58:43 Matt_King: We also included in that roadmap that we would take over the "using ARIA" document and help sunset that 18:59:23 Matt_King: There are these big piles of increased scope that we could do, but that we haven't put into milestones because they're big lifts without folks available to perform them 18:59:37 Matt_King: There's a project-management piece to this, as well--mapping out which we should do first, etc 19:00:02 Matt_King: ...and understanding "how do we even fit this in?" Like, do we add something to every pattern and also additional examples 19:00:39 Jem: I'd be interested in leading the project if there was another person to help me... We're out of time, though, so why don't we talk about this next week in a dedicated agenda item? 19:00:43 Matt_King: That sounds good 19:01:02 Zakim, end the meeting 19:01:02 As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, jongund, ariellagilmore, Jem, Oliver_Habersetzer, arigilmore, Matt_King, Siri, MarkMcCarthy, OliverH 19:01:06 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 19:01:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/30-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim 19:01:13 I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 19:01:13 Zakim has left #aria-apg 19:01:14 RRSAgent, leave 19:01:14 I see no action items