14:34:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
14:34:18 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/29-coga-irc
14:34:18 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:34:19 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:35:50 <lisa> agenda+ scribe
14:36:41 <lisa> agenda+ next weeks working meeting
14:37:31 <lisa> agenda+ stucture subgroup proposal at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rm7VOuCmj2i0deLIqNEyHoTlMYV5A08YQqzvGrKZODs/edit
14:38:05 <lisa> Agenda+ meeting this week
14:39:08 <lisa> Agenda+ updates (AG and others)
14:41:51 <lisa> Agenda+ (if time)  levels of difficulty at  https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues/326
14:43:02 <lisa> regrets: Len, Frankie, Eric and EA
14:43:18 <lisa> (Len and Frankie may be late)
14:44:07 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:44:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/29-coga-minutes.html lisa
14:45:03 <lisa> Q?
14:45:10 <lisa> alear q
14:45:14 <lisa> clear q
14:45:20 <lisa> Q?
14:45:30 <lisa> q-
14:45:33 <lisa> q- j
14:49:30 <lisa> agenda?
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15:01:49 <Jennie> present+
15:01:58 <Rain> present+
15:02:00 <lisa> prenent+
15:02:09 <lisa> present+
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15:02:49 <lisa> scribe+ Lisa, Rain
15:02:59 <tburtin> present+
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15:04:09 <julierawe> present+
15:04:12 <lisa> scribe+ julie
15:04:17 <lisa> scribe+ julieawe
15:04:53 <lisa> next item
15:05:01 <lisa> close item 1
15:05:08 <lisa> agenda?
15:06:12 <lisa> take up item 5
15:06:27 <julierawe> https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/104
15:06:37 <Justine> Justine has joined #coga
15:06:38 <lisa> Julie: updates from ag
15:06:54 <lisa> priority of user control vs support for AT
15:07:01 <lisa> please add comments
15:07:48 <lisa> lisa: scedule?
15:08:04 <kirkwood> present+
15:08:16 <lisa> agenda+ at support https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/104
15:08:26 <Jennie> q+
15:10:28 <lisa> ack next
15:11:23 <lisa> jennie: there are expections like zoom to 200%. Are we talking about that as well?
15:11:37 <lisa> Julie: unsure. let me ask
15:12:07 <lisa> I think it is more like commone words - what about if definitions are availible via the browser
15:12:09 <Rain> q+
15:12:15 <lisa> Jennie: to me it is the same
15:12:22 <julierawe> AG is starting discussion about assertions in WCAG 3. This deck has the background information: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/178EHzR7oKYyS7m-V2pZvjCg10kR2XLZ7tK2V-LUh2K8/edit#slide=id.p
15:12:34 <lisa> jennie: will add a comment
15:13:04 <lisa> rain: that would be an assistive feture of the browser or operating system
15:13:11 <lisa> so make it compatable
15:13:58 <lisa> link to slide deck on assersion above. this is the current discusion
15:14:14 <lisa> important topic for us
15:14:38 <lisa> as a lot of our items will be covered by it.
15:15:01 <lisa> Also subgroups are meeting tomorow duering that time as well
15:15:17 <lisa> august they will have diffrent times. subg
15:15:34 <julierawe> Subgroups are meeting tomorrow during the AG meeting.
15:15:58 <julierawe> In August, the subgroups will meet at a different time and the subgroup leaders will be reaching out about when this new time
15:16:30 <LenB> LenB has joined #coga
15:16:38 <lisa> next item,
15:16:40 <julierawe> lisa Please let me know if anyone is coming to TPAC
15:16:44 <lisa> next item
15:16:48 <lisa> q?
15:16:52 <lisa> ack rain
15:16:56 <lisa> next item
15:16:59 <julierawe> lisa This Thursday the WCAG 3 coordination subgroup is meeting at 11am ET
15:17:03 <lisa> next item
15:17:12 <lisa> close item 2
15:17:18 <lisa> next item
15:17:25 <Rain> draft for qualitative study recruiting and protocol for structure v2 prototype evaluation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rm7VOuCmj2i0deLIqNEyHoTlMYV5A08YQqzvGrKZODs/edit?usp=sharing
15:18:00 <julierawe> Rain This is the draft for both recruiting and for the study protocol itself
15:18:12 <julierawe> Rain We plan to do the tests in August
15:18:23 <julierawe> Rain Tiffany and Len will help me with the tests
15:18:45 <julierawe> Rain We sent the draft on Friday to COGA task force and community group and I have already gotten some good feedback
15:18:50 <JMcSorley> JMcSorley has joined #coga
15:18:53 <julierawe> Rain I tried to address that feedback this morning
15:18:59 <JMcSorley> present+
15:19:29 <lisa> Q?
15:19:43 <julierawe> kirkwood It helps to move your cursor
15:19:54 <julierawe> Rain It helps to click on my face and then you can follow me
15:20:05 <julierawe> Rain The subgroup is confident with this draft
15:20:17 <julierawe> Rain We would like to finish the review of this by August 5th so we can start recruiting
15:20:26 <lisa> huge thanks to roy
15:20:37 <lisa> Q+ to ask if you need help
15:20:53 <julierawe> Rain Roy is building a version of the prototype
15:21:05 <julierawe> Rain My colleague is building a second prototype that is more user-friendly
15:21:22 <julierawe> Rain We would like to run the studies between August 19th and Sept 6th
15:21:37 <julierawe> Rain Each study will be about an hour or possibly longer depending on the user's accommodation needs
15:22:05 <julierawe> Rain It's qualitative data so we need to look at all of it, which is a big time commitment
15:22:14 <julierawe> Rain We are looking to test with 10-12 participants
15:22:38 <julierawe> Rain We plan to look at the data from September 8 to September 20th
15:22:41 <lisa> q?
15:22:53 <julierawe> Rain I am planning to attend TPAC and will discuss what is possible
15:22:54 <lisa> ack next
15:22:55 <Zakim> lisa, you wanted to ask if you need help
15:23:18 <julierawe> Rain From a prototype standpoint, Roy sent a draft this morning
15:23:41 <julierawe> Rain I sent him a lot of feedback this morning. If he can address that feedback, then we should be in good shape
15:24:04 <julierawe> Rain But if he does not have time to make changes, then we may need your help because it is pretty far from what we need
15:24:20 <julierawe> q+
15:24:54 <lisa> ack next
15:24:57 <LenB> present+
15:25:04 <julierawe> lisa Let's set a time after tomorrow's coordination call if Roy hasn't gotten back to Rain
15:25:18 <julierawe> Can we use tomorrow's coordination call to ask Roy if he can address the feedback?
15:25:39 <julierawe> lisa Yes, that's the plan but he may not attend the meeting. But we need a backup plan in case he is not at tomorrow's meeting
15:25:45 <julierawe> Rain I will send Roy an email
15:26:07 <julierawe> Rain We will recruit through a google form the same way we did for quantitative studies last year
15:26:39 <julierawe> Rain Me, Tiffany, Len and Rachael will see the individual data but will delete it
15:26:59 <julierawe> Rain We will send the form out on August 5th
15:27:13 <lisa> q+
15:27:22 <julierawe> Rain We will run the social media by Shawn and W3C staff on August 1st
15:27:53 <julierawe> Rain We will select 10-12 and will have a few extra in case some of those people are not available
15:28:13 <kirkwood> q+
15:28:15 <julierawe> Rain We will reach out to to those 10-12 individuals and ask if any accommodations are needed so we can have them in place during the interviews
15:28:58 <julierawe> Rain Interviews will be between August 19th and Sept 6th
15:29:11 <julierawe> Rain The leads will be only people who have experience interviewing people
15:29:27 <julierawe> Rain Any COGA task force member can shadow the interviews
15:29:37 <kirkwood> how are you doing on recruiting for interviews? I’m interested in shadowing
15:29:45 <lisa> ack next
15:29:52 <julierawe> Rain But only two COGA task force members can shadow so we aren't overwhelming the person being interviewed
15:30:27 <julierawe> lisa Is there a type of user we're recruiting such as intellectual disability?
15:30:58 <julierawe> Rain Yes, that's why we are hand-selecting the participants so we can identify and make sure we are grouping people so we can get that diverse array of individuals
15:31:34 <julierawe> lisa Will it be known the extent to which the 10-12 how many are developers and designers and no one in management or QA?
15:31:49 <julierawe> Rain We will make sure the task force knows about the demographic spread
15:32:07 <julierawe> lisa Will we be careful that the form is not a barrier?
15:32:27 <julierawe> Rain Yes, we tried very hard to make it as friendly as possible
15:32:39 <Jennie> q+
15:32:40 <lisa> ack next
15:32:41 <julierawe> Rain This task force may have additional suggestions
15:33:11 <julierawe> kirkwood I am interested in shadowing and could help with recruiting
15:33:19 <lisa> ack next
15:33:35 <kirkwood> well done
15:33:43 <julierawe> Jennie This information looks really thorough. Do you have a ballpark on long it would take to participate?
15:34:14 <julierawe> Rain The entire process will take 40 minutes to an hour but we can also stop and take breaks at any time
15:34:23 <julierawe> kirkwood How many more people do you think you'll need?
15:34:39 <lisa> ack next
15:34:57 <julierawe> Rain We don't have any participants slated yet because we haven't started recruiting
15:35:22 <julierawe> tburtin I think we can easily give this in written form if needed
15:35:58 <julierawe> Rain We chunked the information and used bulleted lists
15:36:58 <julierawe> Rain read the intro and consent section from the study recruiting form
15:38:12 <JMcSorley> q+
15:40:01 <lisa> ack next
15:40:19 <julierawe> julierawe suggested rewording the 4th item about sharing links to prototypes
15:40:30 <julierawe> JMcSorley Are you going to record the sessions?
15:40:38 <julierawe> Rain It's too much of a legal risk
15:41:05 <julierawe> Rain I am concerned about the video files and our risk there
15:41:17 <julierawe> JMcSorley What is your note-taking system?
15:41:37 <julierawe> Rain Ideally one of the shadowers will take notes or one of the 4 leads will make sure extensive notes are captured
15:42:01 <julierawe> JMcSorley I have some experience with this and can help set up a note-taking document
15:42:11 <julierawe> Rain We will have a doc for each interview
15:42:27 <lisa> Q?
15:42:40 <JMcSorley> q-
15:43:30 <julierawe> Rain We will not keep any personally identifiable information (PII)
15:43:44 <julierawe> Rain Your personal information will never be published
15:44:15 <kirkwood> quick/ez recommendation, put this whole page through AI to make a plain-language summary of the study.
15:44:25 <Jennie> q+
15:44:28 <julierawe> q+
15:44:32 <lisa> ack next
15:44:59 <julierawe> Jennie Will you gather asynchronous feedback from these individuals?
15:45:14 <julierawe> Rain That's a lovely idea and we should explore if possible once we get people to fill out the form
15:45:20 <lisa> ack next
15:45:57 <kirkwood> +1
15:46:00 <lisa> +1 to julie sugestion of audio version
15:46:24 <lisa> Q?
15:46:25 <julierawe> julierawe Possible to do audio or video recording since the form is so long?
15:46:52 <julierawe> Rain I'm not sure it's possible to do plain language summaru?
15:47:39 <Jennie> q+ re ask
15:47:55 <lisa> Q+
15:47:59 <lisa> ack next
15:48:00 <kirkwood> +1
15:48:01 <Zakim> Jennie, you wanted to discuss ask
15:48:22 <julierawe> julierawe Could a summary say time commitment, plus no personal information will be published, plus please read the rest for other important details?
15:48:41 <lisa> ack next
15:48:55 <julierawe> Jennie Will the essential details be included in social media? If so, could those essential details go in the top as a summary?
15:49:12 <julierawe> lisa This document repeats the full name of Making Content Usable several times
15:49:44 <julierawe> lisa Could there be a "key points" box at the top instead of a "summary"?
15:50:16 <julierawe> lisa Those "key points" could be we want your ideas, we will never share your personal information, the survey takes 40 minutes to an hour
15:51:03 <julierawe> lisa You could also take out some of the bold in the sentences?
15:51:13 <lisa> q?
15:51:33 <julierawe> lisa Should we approve with these changes?
15:51:41 <julierawe> Rain Going through the form should be quick
15:51:55 <julierawe> Rain read the recruiting questions
15:53:30 <julierawe> q+
15:53:55 <lisa> ack next
15:54:50 <JMcSorley> Can you ask if they are a person with a cognitive disability?
15:54:59 <Jennie> q+
15:55:26 <Jennie> q-
15:55:33 <JMcSorley> You could ask - I am a person with lived experience with cognitive disability: Yes/No/Prefer not to answer
15:55:57 <julierawe> julierawe The question about how long you been involved with cognitive accessibility may be hard for people with lived experience to answer
15:56:05 <julierawe> Rain made the question optional
15:56:21 <julierawe> kirkwood You could ask "involved or interested in"
15:56:29 <julierawe> Rain made that change
15:56:41 <lisa> Q?
15:57:06 <julierawe> Jennie I see Tiffany has put in the chat that any of us interviewing can answer questions during the live interview
15:57:53 <julierawe> Rain We do start the live interview asking people to confirm they agree to participate and we ask if they have any questions
15:57:56 <Jennie> q+
15:58:14 <lisa> ack next
15:58:16 <julierawe> Rain Please review in the next few days so we can approve in time to start using August 5th
15:58:39 <julierawe> Jennie In terms of requests for accommodations, does the W3C provide funding if someone requests a live captioner?
15:59:03 <julierawe> Rain I have a colleague I want to recruit who requires an ASL interpreter so I will exploer funding options
15:59:19 <julierawe> Rain I am trained to provide accommodations on the fly such as written out
15:59:28 <julierawe> rain We'll have work out on case by case basis
15:59:48 <julierawe> lisa We're at the hour. Do you want a vote on everything except for the study protocol?
16:00:02 <julierawe> Rain Can everyone approve the recruiting email?
16:00:07 <kirkwood> q+
16:00:19 <lisa> aproval with the form and getting w3c approval. understing that this vetted by competyent legal staff
16:00:21 <julierawe> lisa We aren't lawyers so this is vetted by lawyets
16:00:31 <julierawe> Rain We will send so this can be vetted by Shawn and Kevin
16:00:50 <julierawe> kirkwood I put a note at the bottom about the AI I used to follow along
16:01:09 <julierawe> lisa If people agree, to approve the form and get W3C legal approval?
16:01:11 <lisa> +1
16:01:16 <julierawe> +1
16:01:20 <LenB> +1
16:01:27 <JMcSorley> +1
16:01:29 <Jennie> +2
16:01:31 <julierawe> lisa Does anyone need more time or discussion?
16:01:31 <Jennie> +1
16:01:36 <Rain> +1
16:01:42 <JMcSorley> Great job to Rain and the team! Amazing work!
16:01:46 <lisa> any objections
16:01:48 <julierawe> lisa Any objections?
16:01:56 <julierawe> lisa Amazing job
16:02:05 <julierawe> Rain Kudos to Tiffany and Len
16:02:11 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/29-coga-minutes.html julierawe
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