IRC log of coga on 2024-07-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:34:13 [RRSAgent]
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14:34:18 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/29-coga-irc
14:34:18 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:34:19 [Zakim]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:35:50 [lisa]
agenda+ scribe
14:36:41 [lisa]
agenda+ next weeks working meeting
14:37:31 [lisa]
agenda+ stucture subgroup proposal at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rm7VOuCmj2i0deLIqNEyHoTlMYV5A08YQqzvGrKZODs/edit
14:38:05 [lisa]
Agenda+ meeting this week
14:39:08 [lisa]
Agenda+ updates (AG and others)
14:41:51 [lisa]
Agenda+ (if time) levels of difficulty at https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues/326
14:43:02 [lisa]
regrets: Len, Frankie, Eric and EA
14:43:18 [lisa]
(Len and Frankie may be late)
14:44:07 [lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:44:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/29-coga-minutes.html lisa
14:45:03 [lisa]
Q?
14:45:10 [lisa]
alear q
14:45:14 [lisa]
clear q
14:45:20 [lisa]
Q?
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q-
14:45:33 [lisa]
q- j
14:49:30 [lisa]
agenda?
14:50:15 [Roy_]
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15:00:23 [kirkwood]
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15:00:25 [Rain]
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15:01:39 [Jennie]
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15:01:49 [Jennie]
present+
15:01:58 [Rain]
present+
15:02:00 [lisa]
prenent+
15:02:09 [lisa]
present+
15:02:24 [tburtin]
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15:02:49 [lisa]
scribe+ Lisa, Rain
15:02:59 [tburtin]
present+
15:04:03 [julierawe]
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15:04:09 [julierawe]
present+
15:04:12 [lisa]
scribe+ julie
15:04:17 [lisa]
scribe+ julieawe
15:04:53 [lisa]
next item
15:05:01 [lisa]
close item 1
15:05:08 [lisa]
agenda?
15:06:12 [lisa]
take up item 5
15:06:27 [julierawe]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/104
15:06:37 [Justine]
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15:06:38 [lisa]
Julie: updates from ag
15:06:54 [lisa]
priority of user control vs support for AT
15:07:01 [lisa]
please add comments
15:07:48 [lisa]
lisa: scedule?
15:08:04 [kirkwood]
present+
15:08:16 [lisa]
agenda+ at support https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/104
15:08:26 [Jennie]
q+
15:10:28 [lisa]
ack next
15:11:23 [lisa]
jennie: there are expections like zoom to 200%. Are we talking about that as well?
15:11:37 [lisa]
Julie: unsure. let me ask
15:12:07 [lisa]
I think it is more like commone words - what about if definitions are availible via the browser
15:12:09 [Rain]
q+
15:12:15 [lisa]
Jennie: to me it is the same
15:12:22 [julierawe]
AG is starting discussion about assertions in WCAG 3. This deck has the background information: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/178EHzR7oKYyS7m-V2pZvjCg10kR2XLZ7tK2V-LUh2K8/edit#slide=id.p
15:12:34 [lisa]
jennie: will add a comment
15:13:04 [lisa]
rain: that would be an assistive feture of the browser or operating system
15:13:11 [lisa]
so make it compatable
15:13:58 [lisa]
link to slide deck on assersion above. this is the current discusion
15:14:14 [lisa]
important topic for us
15:14:38 [lisa]
as a lot of our items will be covered by it.
15:15:01 [lisa]
Also subgroups are meeting tomorow duering that time as well
15:15:17 [lisa]
august they will have diffrent times. subg
15:15:34 [julierawe]
Subgroups are meeting tomorrow during the AG meeting.
15:15:58 [julierawe]
In August, the subgroups will meet at a different time and the subgroup leaders will be reaching out about when this new time
15:16:30 [LenB]
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15:16:38 [lisa]
next item,
15:16:40 [julierawe]
lisa Please let me know if anyone is coming to TPAC
15:16:44 [lisa]
next item
15:16:48 [lisa]
q?
15:16:52 [lisa]
ack rain
15:16:56 [lisa]
next item
15:16:59 [julierawe]
lisa This Thursday the WCAG 3 coordination subgroup is meeting at 11am ET
15:17:03 [lisa]
next item
15:17:12 [lisa]
close item 2
15:17:18 [lisa]
next item
15:17:25 [Rain]
draft for qualitative study recruiting and protocol for structure v2 prototype evaluation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rm7VOuCmj2i0deLIqNEyHoTlMYV5A08YQqzvGrKZODs/edit?usp=sharing
15:18:00 [julierawe]
Rain This is the draft for both recruiting and for the study protocol itself
15:18:12 [julierawe]
Rain We plan to do the tests in August
15:18:23 [julierawe]
Rain Tiffany and Len will help me with the tests
15:18:45 [julierawe]
Rain We sent the draft on Friday to COGA task force and community group and I have already gotten some good feedback
15:18:50 [JMcSorley]
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15:18:53 [julierawe]
Rain I tried to address that feedback this morning
15:18:59 [JMcSorley]
present+
15:19:29 [lisa]
Q?
15:19:43 [julierawe]
kirkwood It helps to move your cursor
15:19:54 [julierawe]
Rain It helps to click on my face and then you can follow me
15:20:05 [julierawe]
Rain The subgroup is confident with this draft
15:20:17 [julierawe]
Rain We would like to finish the review of this by August 5th so we can start recruiting
15:20:26 [lisa]
huge thanks to roy
15:20:37 [lisa]
Q+ to ask if you need help
15:20:53 [julierawe]
Rain Roy is building a version of the prototype
15:21:05 [julierawe]
Rain My colleague is building a second prototype that is more user-friendly
15:21:22 [julierawe]
Rain We would like to run the studies between August 19th and Sept 6th
15:21:37 [julierawe]
Rain Each study will be about an hour or possibly longer depending on the user's accommodation needs
15:22:05 [julierawe]
Rain It's qualitative data so we need to look at all of it, which is a big time commitment
15:22:14 [julierawe]
Rain We are looking to test with 10-12 participants
15:22:38 [julierawe]
Rain We plan to look at the data from September 8 to September 20th
15:22:41 [lisa]
q?
15:22:53 [julierawe]
Rain I am planning to attend TPAC and will discuss what is possible
15:22:54 [lisa]
ack next
15:22:55 [Zakim]
lisa, you wanted to ask if you need help
15:23:18 [julierawe]
Rain From a prototype standpoint, Roy sent a draft this morning
15:23:41 [julierawe]
Rain I sent him a lot of feedback this morning. If he can address that feedback, then we should be in good shape
15:24:04 [julierawe]
Rain But if he does not have time to make changes, then we may need your help because it is pretty far from what we need
15:24:20 [julierawe]
q+
15:24:54 [lisa]
ack next
15:24:57 [LenB]
present+
15:25:04 [julierawe]
lisa Let's set a time after tomorrow's coordination call if Roy hasn't gotten back to Rain
15:25:18 [julierawe]
Can we use tomorrow's coordination call to ask Roy if he can address the feedback?
15:25:39 [julierawe]
lisa Yes, that's the plan but he may not attend the meeting. But we need a backup plan in case he is not at tomorrow's meeting
15:25:45 [julierawe]
Rain I will send Roy an email
15:26:07 [julierawe]
Rain We will recruit through a google form the same way we did for quantitative studies last year
15:26:39 [julierawe]
Rain Me, Tiffany, Len and Rachael will see the individual data but will delete it
15:26:59 [julierawe]
Rain We will send the form out on August 5th
15:27:13 [lisa]
q+
15:27:22 [julierawe]
Rain We will run the social media by Shawn and W3C staff on August 1st
15:27:53 [julierawe]
Rain We will select 10-12 and will have a few extra in case some of those people are not available
15:28:13 [kirkwood]
q+
15:28:15 [julierawe]
Rain We will reach out to to those 10-12 individuals and ask if any accommodations are needed so we can have them in place during the interviews
15:28:58 [julierawe]
Rain Interviews will be between August 19th and Sept 6th
15:29:11 [julierawe]
Rain The leads will be only people who have experience interviewing people
15:29:27 [julierawe]
Rain Any COGA task force member can shadow the interviews
15:29:37 [kirkwood]
how are you doing on recruiting for interviews? I’m interested in shadowing
15:29:45 [lisa]
ack next
15:29:52 [julierawe]
Rain But only two COGA task force members can shadow so we aren't overwhelming the person being interviewed
15:30:27 [julierawe]
lisa Is there a type of user we're recruiting such as intellectual disability?
15:30:58 [julierawe]
Rain Yes, that's why we are hand-selecting the participants so we can identify and make sure we are grouping people so we can get that diverse array of individuals
15:31:34 [julierawe]
lisa Will it be known the extent to which the 10-12 how many are developers and designers and no one in management or QA?
15:31:49 [julierawe]
Rain We will make sure the task force knows about the demographic spread
15:32:07 [julierawe]
lisa Will we be careful that the form is not a barrier?
15:32:27 [julierawe]
Rain Yes, we tried very hard to make it as friendly as possible
15:32:39 [Jennie]
q+
15:32:40 [lisa]
ack next
15:32:41 [julierawe]
Rain This task force may have additional suggestions
15:33:11 [julierawe]
kirkwood I am interested in shadowing and could help with recruiting
15:33:19 [lisa]
ack next
15:33:35 [kirkwood]
well done
15:33:43 [julierawe]
Jennie This information looks really thorough. Do you have a ballpark on long it would take to participate?
15:34:14 [julierawe]
Rain The entire process will take 40 minutes to an hour but we can also stop and take breaks at any time
15:34:23 [julierawe]
kirkwood How many more people do you think you'll need?
15:34:39 [lisa]
ack next
15:34:57 [julierawe]
Rain We don't have any participants slated yet because we haven't started recruiting
15:35:22 [julierawe]
tburtin I think we can easily give this in written form if needed
15:35:58 [julierawe]
Rain We chunked the information and used bulleted lists
15:36:58 [julierawe]
Rain read the intro and consent section from the study recruiting form
15:38:12 [JMcSorley]
q+
15:40:01 [lisa]
ack next
15:40:19 [julierawe]
julierawe suggested rewording the 4th item about sharing links to prototypes
15:40:30 [julierawe]
JMcSorley Are you going to record the sessions?
15:40:38 [julierawe]
Rain It's too much of a legal risk
15:41:05 [julierawe]
Rain I am concerned about the video files and our risk there
15:41:17 [julierawe]
JMcSorley What is your note-taking system?
15:41:37 [julierawe]
Rain Ideally one of the shadowers will take notes or one of the 4 leads will make sure extensive notes are captured
15:42:01 [julierawe]
JMcSorley I have some experience with this and can help set up a note-taking document
15:42:11 [julierawe]
Rain We will have a doc for each interview
15:42:27 [lisa]
Q?
15:42:40 [JMcSorley]
q-
15:43:30 [julierawe]
Rain We will not keep any personally identifiable information (PII)
15:43:44 [julierawe]
Rain Your personal information will never be published
15:44:15 [kirkwood]
quick/ez recommendation, put this whole page through AI to make a plain-language summary of the study.
15:44:25 [Jennie]
q+
15:44:28 [julierawe]
q+
15:44:32 [lisa]
ack next
15:44:59 [julierawe]
Jennie Will you gather asynchronous feedback from these individuals?
15:45:14 [julierawe]
Rain That's a lovely idea and we should explore if possible once we get people to fill out the form
15:45:20 [lisa]
ack next
15:45:57 [kirkwood]
+1
15:46:00 [lisa]
+1 to julie sugestion of audio version
15:46:24 [lisa]
Q?
15:46:25 [julierawe]
julierawe Possible to do audio or video recording since the form is so long?
15:46:52 [julierawe]
Rain I'm not sure it's possible to do plain language summaru?
15:47:39 [Jennie]
q+ re ask
15:47:55 [lisa]
Q+
15:47:59 [lisa]
ack next
15:48:00 [kirkwood]
+1
15:48:01 [Zakim]
Jennie, you wanted to discuss ask
15:48:22 [julierawe]
julierawe Could a summary say time commitment, plus no personal information will be published, plus please read the rest for other important details?
15:48:41 [lisa]
ack next
15:48:55 [julierawe]
Jennie Will the essential details be included in social media? If so, could those essential details go in the top as a summary?
15:49:12 [julierawe]
lisa This document repeats the full name of Making Content Usable several times
15:49:44 [julierawe]
lisa Could there be a "key points" box at the top instead of a "summary"?
15:50:16 [julierawe]
lisa Those "key points" could be we want your ideas, we will never share your personal information, the survey takes 40 minutes to an hour
15:51:03 [julierawe]
lisa You could also take out some of the bold in the sentences?
15:51:13 [lisa]
q?
15:51:33 [julierawe]
lisa Should we approve with these changes?
15:51:41 [julierawe]
Rain Going through the form should be quick
15:51:55 [julierawe]
Rain read the recruiting questions
15:53:30 [julierawe]
q+
15:53:55 [lisa]
ack next
15:54:50 [JMcSorley]
Can you ask if they are a person with a cognitive disability?
15:54:59 [Jennie]
q+
15:55:26 [Jennie]
q-
15:55:33 [JMcSorley]
You could ask - I am a person with lived experience with cognitive disability: Yes/No/Prefer not to answer
15:55:57 [julierawe]
julierawe The question about how long you been involved with cognitive accessibility may be hard for people with lived experience to answer
15:56:05 [julierawe]
Rain made the question optional
15:56:21 [julierawe]
kirkwood You could ask "involved or interested in"
15:56:29 [julierawe]
Rain made that change
15:56:41 [lisa]
Q?
15:57:06 [julierawe]
Jennie I see Tiffany has put in the chat that any of us interviewing can answer questions during the live interview
15:57:53 [julierawe]
Rain We do start the live interview asking people to confirm they agree to participate and we ask if they have any questions
15:57:56 [Jennie]
q+
15:58:14 [lisa]
ack next
15:58:16 [julierawe]
Rain Please review in the next few days so we can approve in time to start using August 5th
15:58:39 [julierawe]
Jennie In terms of requests for accommodations, does the W3C provide funding if someone requests a live captioner?
15:59:03 [julierawe]
Rain I have a colleague I want to recruit who requires an ASL interpreter so I will exploer funding options
15:59:19 [julierawe]
Rain I am trained to provide accommodations on the fly such as written out
15:59:28 [julierawe]
rain We'll have work out on case by case basis
15:59:48 [julierawe]
lisa We're at the hour. Do you want a vote on everything except for the study protocol?
16:00:02 [julierawe]
Rain Can everyone approve the recruiting email?
16:00:07 [kirkwood]
q+
16:00:19 [lisa]
aproval with the form and getting w3c approval. understing that this vetted by competyent legal staff
16:00:21 [julierawe]
lisa We aren't lawyers so this is vetted by lawyets
16:00:31 [julierawe]
Rain We will send so this can be vetted by Shawn and Kevin
16:00:50 [julierawe]
kirkwood I put a note at the bottom about the AI I used to follow along
16:01:09 [julierawe]
lisa If people agree, to approve the form and get W3C legal approval?
16:01:11 [lisa]
+1
16:01:16 [julierawe]
+1
16:01:20 [LenB]
+1
16:01:27 [JMcSorley]
+1
16:01:29 [Jennie]
+2
16:01:31 [julierawe]
lisa Does anyone need more time or discussion?
16:01:31 [Jennie]
+1
16:01:36 [Rain]
+1
16:01:42 [JMcSorley]
Great job to Rain and the team! Amazing work!
16:01:46 [lisa]
any objections
16:01:48 [julierawe]
lisa Any objections?
16:01:56 [julierawe]
lisa Amazing job
16:02:05 [julierawe]
Rain Kudos to Tiffany and Len
16:02:11 [julierawe]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/29-coga-minutes.html julierawe
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