13:58:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
13:58:46 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-irc
14:00:40 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot-td
14:00:55 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
14:04:23 <Tomo> Tomo has joined #wot-td
14:05:58 <mahda> present+ Mahda_Noura
14:06:55 <luca_barbato> scribenick: luca_barbato
14:07:27 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
14:08:29 <Ege> kaz are you joining?
14:09:48 <luca_barbato> topic: Minutes
14:09:53 <Ege> chair: Ege_Korkan
14:10:57 <luca_barbato> ege: I did glance over the minutes, they seem fine. Any remarks?
14:12:43 <luca_barbato> <no remarks>
14:14:10 <Ege> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:14:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html Ege
14:14:31 <Ege> Meeting: WoT Thing Description
14:15:15 <kaz> s/WoT Thing Description/WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1/
14:15:16 <Ege> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:15:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html Ege
14:15:28 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:15:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:15:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:16:28 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
14:16:30 <luca_barbato> topic: Toolchain
14:17:07 <luca_barbato> ege: The half slot is now unavailable, I sent an email to the people interested. Please provide a preference for the next slot.
14:17:20 <luca_barbato> topic: Initial Connection
14:17:28 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Mahda_Noura, Michael_Kosteer, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:17:50 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1200
14:18:05 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_24_and_25%2C_2024
14:18:06 <luca_barbato> subtopic: Planning Document
14:18:36 <luca_barbato> ege: I identified an issue as umbrella and then then described the sub-issues
14:18:51 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1200||
14:19:17 <kaz> i|I identi|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1200 wot PR 1200 - Planning Document: Initial Connection Topic's Basic Issue Analysis|
14:19:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:19:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:19:49 <luca_barbato> ege: we have 2 related subissues, where to place the common connection information and how to refer to it
14:20:09 <cris> q+
14:20:14 <kaz> q+
14:20:15 <luca_barbato> ... we discussed mainly on the the other sub-issue that is related to the form using the information
14:20:47 <kaz> q-
14:21:11 <kaz> i|I did glance|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html July-17|
14:21:27 <kaz> s/no remarks/no remarks, and approved/
14:21:37 <kaz> s/kaz are you joining?//
14:21:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:21:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:21:48 <luca_barbato> cris: +1 on the summary, but I have a question regarding the UC for the first point, but I recall WebThings is a complete UC covering the 3 points
14:22:16 <luca_barbato> ege: WebThings covers all but we need to start from one place
14:22:25 <kaz> s/The half slot/The half slot for the Toolchain call/
14:22:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:22:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:22:45 <luca_barbato> q+
14:23:33 <luca_barbato> lu: We should clarify what's different between point 2 and point 3
14:23:37 <kaz> ack c
14:23:40 <kaz> ack lu
14:24:02 <cris> +1 for re-ordering
14:25:09 <kaz> i|we have 2|1. Having a place to put common connection information|
14:25:22 <kaz> i|we have 2|2. Linking to a common connection information.|
14:25:36 <kaz> i|we have 2|3. Signaling that a form in an affordance can reuse the connection established before so that the Consumer does not open a new connection per operation execution|
14:25:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:25:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:26:13 <luca_barbato> lu: point 2 feels a detail of point 3
14:26:32 <Ege> q?
14:27:04 <kaz> q+
14:27:22 <kaz> q-
14:27:33 <luca_barbato> <PR merged>
14:27:46 <luca_barbato> subtopic: Node-red connection reusage
14:28:29 <kaz> i|merged|kaz: I'm OK with merging this PR itself as a starting point, but we need to think about the details based on some concrete use case and device/network setting.|
14:28:30 <luca_barbato> ege: mk mentioned that Node-red has some way to reuse MQTT connections
14:28:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:28:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:28:49 <kaz> i/I'm OK/scribenick: kaz/
14:29:06 <kaz> i/PR merged/scribenick: luca_barbato/
14:29:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:29:15 <luca_barbato> <visual demo of Node-red connection setup and usage>
14:30:11 <kaz> s/mk men/Koster men/
14:30:38 <luca_barbato> q+
14:31:41 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot-td
14:31:45 <Ege> q?
14:33:26 <luca_barbato> lu: MQTT relies on a broker so it is the best example of common connection, I assume implementations are already trying to deal with it internally
14:33:59 <luca_barbato> ege: Node-red is also doing that for websocket
14:34:41 <Ege> q?
14:34:43 <Ege> ack l
14:35:26 <luca_barbato> subtopic: Diagrams
14:35:37 <luca_barbato> ege: I edited the diagrams and prepared a PR
14:36:25 <luca_barbato> ege: I made a single multipage draw.io of all the diagrams
14:36:34 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/ege-initial-connection/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md
14:37:06 <luca_barbato> ege: so far I exported the single images as PNG
14:38:17 <luca_barbato> ege: Does everybody find them explanatory enough?
14:39:05 <luca_barbato> q+
14:40:41 <luca_barbato> q-
14:40:55 <kaz> q+
14:41:24 <luca_barbato> lu: We should have a palette that is shared across all our documents, I'm very against change the line style since they have a meaning
14:42:20 <luca_barbato> kaz: Accessibility is getting more important regarding the W3C specification, we can think about a common style
14:43:21 <luca_barbato> ege: Do we have other opinions?
14:44:23 <kaz> s/a common style/a possible style for WoT diagrams in general in addition to the color highlight./
14:44:40 <Ege> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:44:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html Ege
14:44:47 <luca_barbato> ege: Another topic is the connection lifecycle
14:47:20 <luca_barbato> lu: before I forget, if we have the diagrams in SVG we can use CSS to solve the accessibility problem so the reader can override the colors as needed.
14:48:20 <Ege> q?
14:48:27 <kaz> q-
14:48:33 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/ege-initial-connection/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/images/initial-connection-HTTP-lifecycle.png
14:48:38 <cris> q+
14:48:43 <luca_barbato> ege: Back to the Lifecycle of a Connection diagram
14:48:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:48:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:49:01 <luca_barbato> cris: Do we have a Close state?
14:49:22 <luca_barbato> ege: Yes we can rename the two states
14:49:49 <luca_barbato> ege: For the case of MQTT we have two state diagram
14:50:02 <kaz> i|I edited the dia|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1201 wot PR 1201 - Initial Connection Figures|
14:50:04 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:50:12 <luca_barbato> ege: One for the Broker connection and the other for the actual Subscription
14:51:33 <kaz> i|I edited the dia|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/2d065c1db4de5c92d0fbc9af9e507115e4649bef/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md Preview|
14:51:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:51:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:52:37 <kaz> q+
14:52:49 <Ege> ack c
14:53:32 <kaz> ack k
14:54:08 <luca_barbato> kaz: We should add a text description for each diagram
14:54:35 <kaz> s/diagram/diagram, specifically for the state transition diagrams/
14:59:43 <luca_barbato> cris: for OAuth we have situation comparable to MQTT
15:00:19 <luca_barbato> cris: Sometimes you may have to contact back the Authorization Server depending on the OAuth dialect/flow
15:00:51 <luca_barbato> cris: Here what we are sharing is not the connection, but the Token
15:01:31 <luca_barbato> ege: We can call it lifecycle of the token
15:01:49 <luca_barbato> cris: We could call it Session as well
15:04:25 <luca_barbato> topic: Umbrella issue
15:04:55 <luca_barbato> ege: I started analyzing the issues, please do not add comment about solutions in the umbrella issue
15:05:28 <kaz> i|I started|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1248 wot-thing-description Issue 1248 - Reduce intrinsic protocol level redundancy|
15:06:21 <kaz> q+
15:07:21 <kaz> q-
15:08:04 <kaz> kaz: we prefer working on smaller sub issues rather than directly put "possible solutions" to this "umbrella issue 1248". right?
15:08:25 <kaz> ek: right. this issue 1248 is a summary
15:09:02 <kaz> lb: so the first point in the "summary" saying "We want a global media type..." should be also a separate issue
15:09:06 <kaz> ek: good point
15:09:29 <kaz> ... talk to you all tomorrow then!
15:09:33 <kaz> [adjourned]
15:09:41 <kaz> i/we prefer/scribenick: kaz/
15:09:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:09:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz