IRC log of wot-pf on 2024-07-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-pf-irc
13:06:41 [kaz]
meeting: WoT Plugfest
13:07:09 [ktoumura]
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present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, David_Ezell, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Mahda_Noura, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:07:32 [mjk]
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13:07:35 [mahda]
scribe: Mahda_Noura
13:07:58 [kaz]
scribenick: mahda
13:08:08 [mahda]
Topic: Plugfest Planning
13:08:19 [mahda]
sk: this is a non-recurring meeting for now
13:08:20 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#2nd_hour
13:08:39 [mahda]
...we would like to discuss the Slugfest that we wish to do in November
13:09:05 [mahda]
...we would like to discuss the organisation of it, what kind of features do we want to show, hardware
13:09:23 [mahda]
...I would like to open the following Web page for the organization
13:09:36 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/blob/main/events/2024.11.Munich/Readme.md
13:09:39 [Ege]
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13:10:02 [mahda]
sb: could you please explain this Readme page?
13:10:09 [kaz]
s/Readme.md/Readme.md WoT Week at Munich (on GitHub)/
13:10:35 [mahda]
EK: Sebastian has already created the Wiki page, for the technical things I created this Readme, all instructions for interacting with devices, the diagrams
13:10:41 [mahda]
...the idea is to do the same here
13:10:47 [kaz]
i|github|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Wiki_for_WoT_Week_2024_planning WoT Week wiki|
13:11:21 [mahda]
...with this PF we want to do the same thing, in the open day people should see some working WoT systems, at the same time we should use those 2 days to test the features of our spec
13:11:45 [mahda]
...there are two categories: user scenario
13:12:09 [mahda]
and the second is the existing and new features of TD
13:12:41 [mahda]
...some of the existing TD spec features have not been tested like additional responses, linking between IDs and so on
13:13:06 [mahda]
...on the other hand, there are also some new features like initial connections, data mappings, interoperability test suite and so on
13:13:51 [mahda]
...below in this document, there is the setup, what kind of setup do people want to bring. I think people who can join on Wednesday can also show up on Monday and Tuesday if they want to do technical checks
13:14:10 [mahda]
...the setups section will be heavily influenced by the user scenarios
13:14:18 [mahda]
sb: thanks for the insight
13:14:22 [kaz]
q+
13:14:46 [mahda]
...for smart city it is always hard to bring this on a small place, and to showcase a smart city. If we want to go through this path we need to clarify this
13:15:09 [mahda]
...I also shared a Pull Request, to bring in another scenario, called a Plug & Play scenario
13:15:31 [mahda]
...to bring in a new device in a manufacturing environment, this is a big problem, and would love to see this topic here
13:16:11 [kaz]
ack k
13:16:14 [mahda]
...the OPCUA Binding Group will start next week, I think we can test a first version, and also invite people from this working group
13:17:28 [mahda]
kaz: I am happy to see smart city topics here, but we should be careful on which part of smart city do we want to test, for instance we can focus on data accessibility, governance and so on. Regarding OPCUA and NGSI-LD we should think about collaboration with them and inviting their representatives, and providing them IDs and their own descriptions
13:17:28 [mahda]
and test interoperability.
13:17:45 [mahda]
sb: Do you think in the smart city context, we can bring NGSI-LD?
13:18:26 [mahda]
kaz: We should be more specific, as part of smart city we could bring NGSI-LD, we should continue further discussion on what kind of system and collaboration to be tested
13:18:45 [mahda]
sb: is there any objection to merge this PR proposal?
13:19:30 [mahda]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/pull/587
13:20:17 [mahda]
sk: I would then add the draft in the Readme file that Ege created
13:20:49 [mahda]
sk: Adds a comment too on the Smart City section : maybe a topic which can be discussed with the NGSI-LD
13:21:25 [mahda]
sk: regarding WoT for cloud systems, as Microsoft would be there, I would be pretty sure that they would like to show something there
13:21:44 [kaz]
s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/pull/587|-">https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/pull/587|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/pull/587 wot-testing PR 587 - Add Plug & Play scenario + UA Binding as feature|
13:21:51 [mahda]
...We should maybe also contact Michael Legally
13:21:52 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:21:56 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:21:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
13:23:00 [mahda]
sk: I think Siemens would showcase something in the point regarding Plug & Play in industry scenarios
13:23:51 [mahda]
topic: WIP - TD Topics
13:23:58 [mahda]
sk: error handling
13:24:39 [mahda]
ege: we don't have enough experience how consumer applications really use this, it seems like that its fine to put this in the TD, but all the responses are not clear, that's why we thought of throughly testing this
13:24:55 [mahda]
sk: here it would be nice to have a real world examples
13:25:07 [mahda]
ege: yes, for now we didn't put this into a real world, but we need to do this
13:25:22 [mahda]
sk: regarding multiple queryable actions, I would expect an implementation
13:25:53 [mahda]
ege: not only, it can be even for a normal REST API this would be the case
13:26:23 [mahda]
...e.g., the discovery API has this feature and we don't know how to really use it in the scripting API level
13:26:50 [mahda]
sk: what is the default behaviour?
13:27:18 [mahda]
ege: there is the case where you don't have an additional response, there is a normal response and an additional one, how do you make a difference between them
13:27:39 [mahda]
...we have to discuss this is in the TD call, would be good to see how wants to bring setups
13:28:02 [mahda]
...if there are other TFs that want to bring hardware for tests, those are some open points
13:28:10 [mahda]
sk: do we have a hardware section here?
13:28:17 [mahda]
ege: yes, it's the setup sections
13:28:28 [mahda]
sk: What is the WoT WG?
13:28:38 [mahda]
ege: it's the setups from our side
13:29:43 [mahda]
sk: We can start from Siemens, because we have in house solutions, we have different hardware like the Sentrum PAC, Industrial Edge, some actuators should be defined
13:29:58 [mahda]
sk: Someone else in the round who already knows what they want to bring?
13:30:11 [mahda]
(none)
13:30:14 [Ege]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/blob/main/events/plugfest/2019-tpac-fukuoka/README.md we can work on this
13:31:54 [mahda]
Ege: In the previous we used to do this, where we would provide the TD, what devices are available, a diagram of the devices. Ideally would be good to have such a thing, we could give it also to the visitors.
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13:32:18 [kaz]
q+
13:32:45 [mahda]
sk: I like this and think we should follow this pattern
13:33:08 [kaz]
q-
13:34:02 [mahda]
kaz: probably we should clarify the need for BPN
13:34:24 [kaz]
s/BPM/VPN for remote connection for Plugfest/
13:34:54 [kaz]
s/Plugfest/Plugfest too. We used to use AWS for that purpose, and Toumura-san helped us set it up./
13:35:03 [mahda]
ege: for other who can join in presence, can join still in a remote fashion
13:35:15 [mahda]
sk: it is definitely alright to provide your equipment in a remote manner
13:35:36 [kaz]
s/AWS/SoftEther on AWS/
13:36:00 [mahda]
sk: It would be nice to have again Panasonic with their Smart Lab,
13:36:10 [kaz]
q+
13:36:28 [dezell]
q+ to ask about DTDL and a retail/merchant ecosystem
13:37:23 [mahda]
kaz: we should try actual business level and service level implementations
13:38:18 [mahda]
...we need to clarify the scenarios and the context
13:38:45 [mahda]
...examples like OPC UA, Cloud, ECHONET, Smart City, and so on
13:39:09 [Ege]
q+
13:39:11 [mahda]
sk: the question is whether we record this in the table of the document already
13:39:13 [kaz]
ack k
13:39:42 [Ege]
ack e
13:39:42 [mahda]
Ege: I would do in such that the table links to devices, and I would write the user scenarios in the top of the file
13:39:50 [kaz]
ack e
13:41:09 [kaz]
q+
13:41:15 [Ege]
q+
13:42:04 [mahda]
dezeli: I have for your consideration for a future meeting, we have a member who would potentially participate in the Plug Fest, is there a for dummies page so I can figure out how they would fit. We are coming from a new area retail, we are also interested in the DTDL
13:44:04 [mahda]
sk: there is maybe not a obvious connection possible with such a scenario, but in the past we always found a connection and that it's possible to interact with a device, e.g., door status, which we can display in the dashboard. My previous experience was that we always made it to interact with the information we provide from the device
13:44:51 [mahda]
dezeli: is this connection happens in the Plug fest itself
13:45:06 [Ege]
kaz can I quickly comment before you?
13:45:21 [kaz]
q- later
13:45:34 [kaz]
s/dezeli:/dezell:/
13:45:35 [mahda]
sk: we also came up with a lot of new ideas in the meeting, and ideas which were not planned
13:45:38 [kaz]
ack de
13:45:38 [Zakim]
dezell, you wanted to ask about DTDL and a retail/merchant ecosystem
13:46:39 [mahda]
sk: regarding DTDL that you mentioned, Microsoft will also be their, but we are currently moving a bit away from that, and there are also tools provided by Microsoft that you can translate DTDL to TD and vice versa
13:46:57 [mahda]
dezell: I am pretty excited
13:47:51 [kaz]
ack e
13:48:47 [mahda]
Ege: thinking about the retail space, when we have an energy meter, if conneXtion would bring a fridge, and we Siemens bring the Sentron Pack, we observe the energy and illustrate in the dashboard
13:49:47 [kaz]
q?
13:49:52 [mahda]
dezell: these cash management people, its more a complex system, we can still do a dashboard, what are the bills captured, e.g., there is a lot we can do there, will go back to them and come up with a description
13:50:06 [mahda]
sk: if you want I can also mention the retail scenario in the list
13:50:32 [mahda]
dezell: it wouldn't hurt to mention it, we just need to find the right people to participate
13:51:09 [mahda]
kaz: I was actually mentioning that we should think about external organisation regarding new scenarios, if we could get people from Connxtion for the Plug Fest that would be great
13:51:40 [mahda]
dezell: Michael Mccool did a Plug fest for us, the problem was that the equipment was external
13:52:57 [Ege]
q+
13:53:02 [mahda]
kaz: Even though suggesting concrete manuals and guidelines is good, it is quite tough to generate manuals, we would like to generate this Readme to get participation from member companies, it would be great if you could participate in this discussion and the people from your organisation.
13:53:03 [kaz]
ack k
13:53:32 [mahda]
ege: I think participants should write their TD, and do technical instructions, do you mean that?
13:54:13 [mahda]
kaz: it would be nice to have a consolidated guideline as a starting point, like getting the participant list then identifying potential scenarios, and then coming up with the hardware setup...
13:54:25 [mahda]
ege: you mean something that is generic to all plug fest
13:54:39 [mahda]
kaz: yes, something that is more generic and not only target for experts
13:55:51 [mahda]
kaz: we need to also mention that SDOs would also be welcome to participate
13:56:07 [kaz]
q?
13:56:09 [kaz]
ack e
13:56:26 [mahda]
sk: something else for discussing? I think we made good starting point
13:56:54 [mahda]
sk: Hitashi maybe would like to show something with Node-RED again, Luca would also be great to have you in here again
13:57:48 [mahda]
mjk: I was also looking into semantic integration, is that a BRICK annotation integrated in the TD?
13:58:47 [kaz]
q+
13:59:04 [mahda]
sk: discuss with your companies so we can get precise in the preparation
13:59:11 [mahda]
kaz: when do we want to have the next call?
13:59:41 [mahda]
sk: maybe in two weeks again, currently it is not blocking the profile call. Luca would be ok to have this time slot in two weeks?
13:59:53 [mahda]
Luca: yes, the plan was to have it in a bi-weekly fashion
14:00:04 [kaz]
s/Hitashi/Hitachi/
14:00:06 [mahda]
sk: ok then lets do this
14:00:17 [kaz]
i/when do/topic: Next call?/
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14:00:38 [kaz]
[adjourned]
14:00:43 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:00:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/24-wot-pf-minutes.html kaz
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