13:54:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:54:58 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/18-i18n-irc
13:55:03 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b40424a9-1664-4b61-965c-27712bb6a648/20240718T150000/
13:55:03 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:55:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:55:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:55:05 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:55:07 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:55:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
13:55:12 <agendabot> agenda+ String-Meta PR
13:55:13 <addison> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:55:14 <agendabot> agenda+ I18N/CSS follow up
13:55:16 <agendabot> agenda+ PR Review
13:55:18 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:55:19 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:55:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/18-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:57:11 <addison> agenda+ More FPWDs in the pipeline
13:59:02 <addison> present+ Addison
14:01:50 <addison> present+ Richard, Atsushi, Fuqiao
14:02:43 <atsushi> atsushi has joined #i18n
14:04:57 <Bert> scribe+
14:05:06 <addison> agenda?
14:05:08 <Bert> present+
14:05:10 <xfq> present+ Bert
14:05:14 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:05:14 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:23 <xfq> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:05:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
14:05:38 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:05:38 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:49 <addison> #111
14:05:50 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/111 -> Action 111  publish qa-direction-native to website after addison finishes the tweak (on xfq) due 2024-07-18
14:06:03 <addison> close #111
14:06:05 <gb> Closed -> issue #111 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/111
14:06:08 <addison> #106
14:06:09 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/106 -> Action 106  write to ietf group about rfc9457 (on aphillips) due 2024-06-20
14:06:22 <addison> #93
14:06:22 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/93 -> Action 93  create best practices for consumers in string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-04-25
14:06:28 <addison> #90
14:06:29 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/90 -> Action 90  steal some of henri's text from scroll-to-text-fragment for string-search (on aphillips) due 2024-04-18
14:06:29 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
14:06:40 <addison> #89
14:06:41 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89 -> Action 89  update i18n specs to support dark mode (on xfq) due 2024-04-18
14:07:20 <addison> #79
14:07:21 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/79 -> Action 79  schedule a follow-up call with WHATNOT in ~April (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07
14:07:41 <addison> #78
14:07:41 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/78 -> Action 78  compare infra to i18n-glossary export list and report back (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07
14:08:00 <addison> #33
14:08:01 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)
14:08:18 <addison> #8
14:08:19 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8 -> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023
14:08:22 <addison> #7
14:08:22 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023
14:08:36 <addison> #4
14:08:37 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips, r12a) due 27 Jul 2023
14:08:57 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:08:57 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:09:18 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:09:18 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:09:28 <addison> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1
14:11:00 <JcK> present+ JcK
14:11:37 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:11:37 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:11:48 <addison> #1882
14:11:49 <gb> Issue 1882 not found
14:12:01 <addison> i18n-activity#1882
14:12:01 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1882 -> Issue 1882 Programmatically determine language of proper names and technical terms (by xfq) [pending] [t:lang_strings] [wg:ag] [s:wcag2ict]
14:12:13 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22/#applying-sc-3-1-2-language-of-parts-to-non-web-documents-and-software
14:13:11 <addison> q+
14:14:16 <addison> ack next
14:14:18 <Bert> xfq: Not sure why they mention proper names and technical terms as exceptions that can not be in a determined language
14:15:11 <Bert> addison: I thought of heuristic detection of language. Names makes such detections less accurate.
14:15:20 <r12a> q+
14:15:40 <Bert> ... Language detection has gotten better, with machine learning.
14:16:18 <Bert> ... If you want people's names pronounced correctly, you should wrap them in metadata.
14:16:52 <Bert> xfq: Their definition seems quoted from WCAG 2, which is a Rec. But we can file an issue.
14:17:17 <Bert> ... They may be talking more about language declaration than about detection.
14:17:19 <addison> ack next
14:17:29 <Bert> addison: But you can mark names with a language, too.
14:18:09 <Bert> r12a: I think it is about getting the language somehow from the context. Getting it from markup seems perfectly well determined.
14:18:40 <Bert> ... I think it is about ways the browser can find out the language.
14:18:58 <Bert> addison: Still the question is why that text is in the spec.
14:19:40 <Bert> r12a: They may be trying to make an allowance for language being determined in other ways than from markup.
14:20:35 <xfq> https://www.boia.org/blog/what-programmatically-determined-means-for-accessibility
14:20:47 <Bert> addison: Maybe we should ask them what they want to accomplish, if the text means what we think it does, and what the list of exceptions is doing.
14:21:56 <Bert> xfq: I'll ask what the goal of the paragraph is and what the "programmatically determined" phrase means.
14:22:14 <addison> agenda?
14:22:18 <Bert> addison: And ask why they think names need to be an exception
14:22:26 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
14:22:26 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- More FPWDs in the pipeline -- taken up [from addison]
14:22:44 <r12a> ethi-lreq ED
14:22:44 <r12a> geor-lreq ED
14:22:44 <r12a> grek-lreq ED
14:22:46 <r12a> cyrl-lreq ED
14:22:48 <r12a> cyrl-gap ED
14:22:50 <r12a> guru-lreq ED
14:22:52 <r12a> taml-lreq ED
14:22:54 <r12a> jpan-lreq ED
14:22:56 <r12a> kore-lreq ED
14:22:59 <r12a> mong-lreq ED
14:23:00 <r12a> tibt-lreq ED
14:23:20 <Bert> r12a: Looking to publish these ^^.
14:23:38 <Bert> ... There will be more drafts, but this is today's list.
14:23:53 <addison> PROPOSED: publish the above 11 script resources documents as FPWD?
14:24:06 <Bert> ... The names are now "XXX script resources".
14:24:13 <addison> +1
14:24:15 <atsushi> +1
14:24:16 <Bert> +1
14:24:18 <xfq> +1
14:24:19 <r12a> +1
14:24:22 <JcK> +1
14:24:26 <Bert> <Bert> +1
14:24:39 <addison> RESOLVED: publish 11 script resources documents ("lreq") as FPWD
14:24:54 <addison> agenda?
14:25:33 <Bert> r12a: We're about to publish drafts for cyrillic for the first time.
14:25:52 <Bert> xfq: We don't have requirements docs for cyrillic, do we?
14:26:09 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:26:09 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- String-Meta PR -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:26:10 <Bert> r12a: Nor for a number of others.
14:26:19 <addison> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/aphillips/string-meta/pull/87.html#bp-consumers
14:26:47 <Bert> r12a: For Atsushi: I raised an issue on jlreq.
14:27:05 <Bert> atsushi: Yes, I found the link and will bring to meeting next week.
14:27:48 <Bert> r12a: The issue is about pointing out to the jl TF that these drafts are being made.
14:30:08 <Bert> atsushi: @@ "jlreq-d" document.
14:30:53 <Bert> r12a: Just consider that the final jlreq-d might benefit from having the same structure as the others, That's what the issue is about.
14:31:07 <Bert> ... I'm restructering elreq as well.
14:31:22 <Bert> atsushi: Let me think about it.
14:32:06 <Bert> r12a: It doesn't make a difference if I publish jlreq docs on Tuesday or later.
14:32:48 <addison> action: atsushi: investigate changes to jlreq due to publication of jpan-lreq
14:32:55 <gb> Created -> action #112 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/112
14:33:11 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:33:11 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- String-Meta PR -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:33:21 <addison> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/aphillips/string-meta/pull/87.html#bp-consumers
14:33:28 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/pull/87
14:33:29 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/pull/87 -> Pull Request 87 Create best practices for consumers (by aphillips)
14:33:57 <Bert> addison: I made the changes. Fuqiao published the article it refers to.
14:34:18 <Bert> ... Can I merge this? We can always change more.
14:34:27 <Bert> xfq: You have updated example 8?
14:34:42 <Bert> addison: Yes, removed the red box. And notation moved up.
14:35:10 <Bert> ... Added a HR (actually 3 stars) as separator.
14:35:46 <Bert> ... OK, merged.
14:36:10 <addison> agenda?
14:36:11 <Bert> ... Probably need to update specdev next, to match.
14:36:41 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
14:36:41 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- PR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:36:51 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/581
14:36:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/581 -> Pull Request 581 Initial work on language-negotiation materials (by aphillips)
14:37:43 <Bert> addison: Do we want more iteration on this ^^ ?
14:38:12 <Bert> xfq: It is clearer than before.
14:38:44 <Bert> ... Can probably convert it to HTML., if we have no major comments on it.
14:39:11 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articlelist#navigating
14:39:36 <Bert> r12a: HAven't had time to read it, but main concern is that it plays well with our other material, see ^^, and point to it.
14:40:38 <Bert> ... There is also already articles about language negotiation ther, e.g.
14:40:46 <Bert> ... Don't get people confused.
14:40:50 <r12a>     Guiding users to translated pages
14:40:50 <r12a>     Using <select> to Link to Localized Content
14:40:50 <r12a>     Indicating the language of a link destination
14:40:52 <r12a>     When to use language negotiation
14:40:54 <r12a>     Apache MultiViews language negotiation set up
14:40:56 <r12a>     Setting language preferences in a browser
14:40:58 <r12a>     Accept-Language used for locale setting
14:41:52 <Bert> JcK: I'm adding my comments on GitHub.
14:42:31 <Bert> ... A little bit concerned about the comment on privacy vs our recommendations
14:43:08 <Bert> addison: The doc doesn't talk about privacy at the moment.
14:43:18 <Bert> ... We should mention it.
14:43:39 <Bert> JcK: Some users will be sensitive to the information being collected.
14:43:57 <Bert> xfq: We have an article about locale settings. We could mention privacy there too.
14:44:12 <Bert> ... See the last article on Richard's list above.
14:45:36 <Bert> JcK: In general there is personalization of web pages on one hand and privacy on the other, not just in case of i18n.
14:46:21 <Bert> addison: I'll watch for comments for another week and make proposals for how to handle existing comments.
14:47:02 <Bert> r12a: Tutorials in general link to articles. You can write "go and see this article".
14:48:07 <Bert> addison: Unicode will have Unicode Technical Workshop 2.
14:48:22 <Bert> ... A bit like a Unicode Conference, but different.
14:48:33 <Bert> ... I proposed a topic.
14:48:55 <Bert> ... I'm looking for coauthors, contributors.
14:48:59 <addison> addison has joined #i18n
14:49:35 <addison> https://github.com/unicode-org/message-format-wg/blob/main/exploration/bidi-usability.md
14:54:06 <addison> agenda?
14:54:15 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
14:54:15 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:54:28 <Bert> addison: Anything else?
14:54:30 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/issues/4
14:54:31 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/issues/4 -> Issue 4 TAG discussion pointer (by r12a)
14:54:58 <Bert> xfq: This string meta issue ^^ is a pointer to a TAG discussionm which is closed.
14:55:11 <Bert> ... We might want to close our issue, too.
14:55:17 <Bert> r12a: Sounds good.
14:55:50 <Bert> addison: Do want another TAG review of string meta? We changed direction somewhat since we last told them what we wanted to do.
14:56:32 <Bert> xfq: We converted some text from the explainer to the main document. Do we want them to review the main document?
14:56:51 <Bert> addison: It seems like we should get a horizontal review.
14:57:06 <Bert> xfq: Yes, could be useful.
14:57:24 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
14:57:32 <Bert> addison: I'll close this issue and make one for tracking review.
14:57:56 <Bert> JcK: Probable regrets for next week.
14:58:21 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:01:08 <bigbluehat> bigbluehat has joined #i18n