14:04:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:04:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-irc
14:04:14 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
14:04:20 <kaz> regrets+ Ege, Koster
14:04:44 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Mahda_Noura, Jan_Romann, Luca_Barbato
14:06:37 <kaz> chair: Mahda
14:06:51 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:07:18 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_17_and_18%2C_2024
14:07:22 <dape> scribe: dape
14:08:13 <dape> MN: Agenda mostly about tooling
14:08:29 <dape> TOPIC: Agenda Review
14:09:07 <JKRhb> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:09:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
14:09:12 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:09:13 <JKRhb> rrsagent, make log public
14:09:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:09:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:09:22 <dape> MN: Wednesday meeting, https://www.w3.org/2024/07/10-wot-td-minutes.html
14:09:29 <dape> ... Kaz applied some changes already
14:09:59 <dape> ... I spotted "@@@"
14:10:13 <dape> Kaz: We need Cristianos explanation
14:10:19 <dape> ... we can remove also
14:10:47 <dape> MN: Thursday meeting, https://www.w3.org/2024/07/11-wot-td-minutes.html
14:10:48 <kaz> (just removed)
14:10:57 <kaz> s/(just removed)//
14:10:57 <dape> ... any objections approving the minutes
14:11:04 <dape> ... none -> minutes are approved
14:11:13 <kaz> s/Thursday/(just removed)/
14:11:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:11:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:11:27 <dape> TOPIC: TD
14:11:30 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Toolchain Discussion
14:11:47 <kaz> s/TOPIC: Agenda Review//
14:11:51 <dape> MN: Current process is to finally generate HTML document
14:11:59 <dape> ... some parts are manually written
14:12:01 <kaz> i/Agenda most/topic: Agenda Review/
14:12:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:12:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:12:19 <dape> ... some tables, images etc are automatically generated from resources like ontology et cetera
14:12:37 <dape> ... current process requires to setup ontology
14:12:53 <dape> ... it is tedious
14:13:08 <dape> ... SHACL/SHAPE difficult to construct
14:13:10 <kaz> i|Current|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description11/ Mahda shows the WoT Thing Description 1.1 spec|
14:13:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:13:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:13:25 <dape> ... JSON schema validation file is different again
14:14:00 <dape> ... we require template files based on STTL
14:14:17 <dape> ... difficult to maintain ... not a huge community
14:14:25 <kaz> q?
14:14:44 <kaz> q+
14:14:49 <dape> ... that's why we look for a better solution
14:15:02 <mahda> https://ns.inria.fr/sparql-template/
14:15:04 <kaz> q-
14:15:19 <dape> MN: Is motivation clear?
14:15:28 <dape> q+
14:15:38 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:15:52 <kaz> s|template/|template/ SPARQL Template|
14:16:08 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
14:16:09 <dape> DP: new tooling for new documents only, right?
14:16:13 <dape> MN: Yes
14:16:28 <dape> ... new resources in similar shape
14:16:30 <kaz> ack d
14:16:40 <mahda> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp
14:16:41 <dape> MN: <opens repo>
14:16:56 <dape> ... that is the current project with the new toolchain
14:17:12 <dape> ... there is a diagram about main idea
14:17:39 <dape> ... we agreed to use LinkML
14:17:56 <dape> ... LinkML based on object-oriented programming concept
14:18:09 <dape> ... easier for most people
14:18:26 <dape> ... single source of truth in LinkML
14:18:48 <dape> ... output resources are generated like JSON Schema, SHACL, ...
14:19:02 <dape> ... 2nd step if for generating HTML
14:19:23 <dape> .... currently we use the template mechanism which we would like to replace
14:19:58 <dape> ... static file index.template.html uses the placeholder which we fill in
14:20:53 <dape> ... the 2nd step would use the generated resources and the html file to generate final TD HTML file
14:21:03 <dape> ... the repo can be used already
14:21:08 <kaz> q+
14:21:14 <dape> ... there is a quickstarter in the readme
14:21:29 <dape> MN: <showing the process>
14:21:54 <dape> Kaz: readme page summarizes whole mechanism. That is great
14:22:12 <dape> q?
14:22:12 <kaz> q-
14:22:29 <dape> MN: back to process
14:22:44 <dape> ... main.py is starting point
14:23:06 <dape> ... script to generate
14:23:14 <dape> ... so far we need to bring concepts to LinkML
14:24:04 <dape> ... repo has "resources" directory with LinkML  schemas
14:24:22 <dape> ... we can define own types
14:24:49 <dape> ... first draft ready for our schemas is available
14:25:11 <dape> ... besides that we have index.template.html
14:25:19 <dape> ... with placeholders
14:25:46 <dape> ... there also test files in "test" directory
14:26:35 <dape> MN: The process generated merged LinkML file which could be hosted later somewhere
14:26:46 <dape> ... now we are in the test phase
14:27:16 <dape> ... basic tests pass... for example w.r.t. the JSON schema
14:27:47 <dape> ... more complicated ones pass also
14:27:56 <dape> ... but there is still a lot to do
14:28:11 <dape> ... we have lots of test-cases
14:28:14 <dape> q+
14:28:16 <JKRhb> q+
14:28:48 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
14:28:55 <cris> q+
14:28:58 <dape> DP: Part of a CI test pipeline in the end?
14:29:08 <dape> MN: Yes
14:29:19 <dape> ... generation, testing etc
14:29:21 <dape> ack dape
14:29:24 <kaz> ack d
14:29:37 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
14:29:42 <kaz> ack jk
14:30:05 <dape> JR: For the document generation. DO we still use index.html or bikeshed ?
14:30:22 <dape> MN: No plan yet ... still working on JSON schema generation
14:30:34 <dape> ... LinkML is work in progress also
14:30:46 <dape> ... parts we need are worked on
14:31:09 <dape> ... anyway, later we can look at bikeshed also
14:31:10 <kaz> -> https://speced.github.io/bikeshed/ Bikeshed Documentation
14:31:20 <dape> ack JKRhb
14:32:08 <dape> CA: Congrats. I like it
14:32:17 <dape> ... about testing
14:32:27 <dape> ... we used to have validation folder in old repo
14:32:34 <kaz> q+
14:32:38 <dape> ... can you make use of it?
14:33:16 <dape> MN: I considered valid vs. invalid TDs ... but testing pipeline is not in place yet
14:33:46 <dape> ... we can use the "old" script in the future ...
14:33:58 <dape> CA: Let's see how it goes
14:34:22 <dape> CA: Bikeshed is python-based ... maybe we go along that
14:34:33 <luca_barbato> q+
14:34:39 <dape> ... what is the advantage of bikeshed?
14:34:49 <kaz> ack cr
14:35:00 <dape> LB: Question: What is the alternative ?
14:35:11 <dape> CA: Staying with ReSpec ?
14:35:44 <dape> LB: Bikeshed takes in extended markdown and produces HTML (or PDF)
14:35:58 <dape> ... can be still annotated with ReSpec
14:36:05 <JKRhb> q+
14:36:06 <dape> ... but we can use Markdown
14:36:38 <dape> MN: we use mkdocs already
14:36:54 <dape> LB: LinkML can produce Markdown
14:37:27 <dape> ... we can convert index.html to Ginger and LinkML can fill in what we want
14:38:03 <dape> ... OR LinkML is producing Markdown, which we can fill in later
14:38:09 <dape> ... several possible steps
14:38:23 <cris> q+
14:38:27 <dape> MN: Luca, maybe you can draft your proposal
14:38:53 <dape> ... I have still concerns w.r.t. the placeholders and how to replace them
14:39:24 <dape> LB: Are we okay with converting everything to Markdown?
14:39:37 <dape> ... this is the first step
14:39:40 <kaz> q?
14:39:40 <dape> q+
14:40:33 <kaz> ack lu
14:40:39 <dape> LB: I can try to look at how we can integrate
14:41:02 <dape> ... Markdown seems better to me
14:41:39 <dape> MN: Maybe we can convert HTML to Markdown also?
14:41:40 <dape> q?
14:41:57 <dape> ... but let's wait for Luca
14:42:39 <dape> Kaz: Given that we don't have both the main editors ... we don't need to make conclusion
14:42:53 <dape> ... we need to think about compatibility
14:43:14 <dape> ... not everyone is used to it and we should be careful
14:43:15 <dape> ack kaz
14:43:15 <JKRhb> q-
14:43:24 <dape> MN: agree, no resolutions today
14:43:29 <dape> q?
14:43:36 <dape> ack cris
14:44:04 <dape> CA: If we have HTML already .. it is an effort to move it to Markdown
14:44:21 <JKRhb> q+
14:44:37 <kaz> q+
14:44:55 <dape> ... there are templating mechanisms
14:45:27 <dape> LB: Markdown is easier to handle ..
14:45:56 <JKRhb> q-
14:46:17 <dape> ... LinkML has Markdown generator
14:46:55 <dape> ... have PR ready
14:47:10 <dape> LB: <sharing screen>
14:47:55 <dape> ... at the moment mermaid rendering is not working correctly
14:48:54 <dape> ... could write python to fill in placeholders
14:49:12 <dape> ... OR use Markdown output so that it fits our needs
14:49:48 <dape> MN: Would be good test it
14:50:49 <dape> DP: Somewhat similar comment to Cristianos ... would stick to HTML for now.. look at it step by step
14:50:59 <dape> ack dape
14:51:20 <dape> Kaz: Agree with Daniel
14:51:32 <dape> ... would ask opinions from Koster and Ege
14:51:51 <dape> ... and talk with other working groups using bikeshed
14:51:54 <dape> ack kaz
14:52:09 <mahda> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp/issues/29
14:52:09 <dape> MN: Issue 29 in tmp repo
14:52:34 <dape> MN: in LinkML composition can be used like anyOf etc
14:52:56 <dape> ... I modeled security field
14:54:01 <dape> ... LinkML adds type:string also ion JSON schema
14:54:17 <dape> ... composition term is the issue
14:54:32 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp/issues/29|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp/issues/29 LinkML JSON Schema Generator|
14:54:32 <dape> ... it is of type object
14:54:51 <dape> .... in the case of composition ... convert to object
14:54:54 <cris> q+
14:55:06 <dape> ... maybe propose fix to LinkML
14:55:36 <dape> ... I wanted to discuss how we can proceed
14:55:46 <mahda> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp/issues/28
14:56:03 <dape> MN: Issue 28 is similar.. w.r.t. additionalProperties
14:56:25 <dape> ... shall we do post processing ..or fixing LinkML
14:56:32 <dape> q?
14:56:36 <dape> q+
14:57:07 <dape> CA: w.r.t. issue 29 ...
14:57:19 <dape> ... can we define security is undefined
14:57:39 <dape> MN: can use range: any ... forces it to be object
14:58:02 <dape> ... in some case it works fine
14:58:16 <dape> ... in the forms cases it does not work
14:59:09 <dape> CA: I am surprised that JSON schema is valid in first place
14:59:42 <dape> MN:  Yes, not valid
15:00:28 <dape> CA: Workaround possible ... with post processing.. if no fix on LinkML side
15:01:39 <kaz> q+ to whisper we're out of time :)
15:01:47 <kaz> ack cr
15:01:49 <kaz> ack da
15:02:05 <dape> DP: should fix LinkML in the ideal case :-)
15:02:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:02:20 <dape> ... at least try to open issues
15:02:38 <dape> .... w.r.t. forms .. we should not use the same type
15:02:43 <dape> MN: Yes fixed that
15:03:00 <dape> ... with title ... sometimes mandatory ..sometimes not
15:03:54 <kaz> i|LinkML JSON Schema Generator|subtopic: Issue 29|
15:04:19 <dape> ... ontology should have just one concept of title .. not several ones
15:04:21 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp/issues/28|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp/issues/28 Issue 28 - Model JSON Schema keyword additionalProperties in LinkML|
15:04:42 <dape> MN: anything urgent?
15:04:47 <kaz> i|Model JSON Schema keyword additionalProperties in LinkML|subtopic: Issue 28|
15:04:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:04:58 <dape> ... closing -> out of time
15:05:02 <dape> [adjourned]
15:05:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:05:27 <kaz> s/Koster and Ege/Koster and Ege too/
15:06:37 <kaz> s/and talk with other working groups using bikeshed/then if we as the whole TD TF would like to go for using Bikeshed, we can ask other groups who are already using Bikeshed about their tooling and know-how./
15:06:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:06:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
17:02:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td