13:08:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-profile
13:09:03 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-profile-irc
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13:09:24 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Luca_Barbato, Daniel_Peintner, Jan_Romann
13:09:38 <kaz> regrets+ Ege
13:09:42 <kaz> regrets+ Koster
13:10:15 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
13:10:21 <kaz> regrets+ Ben
13:11:27 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:12:11 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Profile_WebConf#Profile_-_Jul_17th%2C_2024
13:12:17 <kaz> q+
13:13:10 <kaz> q-
13:13:10 <kaz> topic: Minutes
13:13:22 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/06/11-wot-profile-minutes.html June-11
13:13:37 <kaz> lb: (goes through the minutes)
13:14:20 <kaz> approved
13:14:33 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/07/09-wot-profile-minutes.html July-9
13:15:21 <kaz> present+ Ben_Francis
13:16:26 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:16:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:16:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:16:40 <kaz> approved
13:17:45 <kaz> topic: Out of box clarification
13:18:15 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/415 PR 415 - Out of the box clarification
13:18:39 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/415/files changes
13:19:39 <kaz> merged
13:20:00 <kaz> topic: Profiles for ecosystems
13:21:40 <kaz> q+
13:21:57 <kaz> q-
13:21:58 <benfrancis> q+
13:22:17 <kaz> kaz: any issues and/or documents?
13:22:33 <kaz> lb: this is an open discussion for today
13:23:29 <kaz> lb: (shows his diagram about profiles vs ecosystems)
13:24:37 <kaz> ... Protocol: HTTP, MQTT, WebTransport, WebSocket
13:24:50 <kaz> .... Data Serialization: JSON, CBOR, BSON, ProtoBuf
13:25:08 <kaz> ... Data Structure: DataSchema, DataMapping
13:25:16 <kaz> ... Meaning of Data: SAREF, SSN
13:25:30 <kaz> ... Behavior: Async Action, Affordance Relationship
13:25:45 <kaz> ... System Architecture: Security, Disovery, Onboarding
13:26:20 <kaz> ... examples of ecosystems: OPC-UA, MATTER
13:28:18 <kaz> ... initial work on OPC-UA example done
13:28:23 <kaz> ... would work on MATTER too
13:29:41 <kaz> q?
13:29:42 <kaz> q+
13:30:05 <benfrancis> https://w3c.github.io/wot-binding-templates/#platform-bindings
13:30:13 <kaz> bf: sounds to me platform design
13:30:22 <kaz> ... protocol binding and payload binding
13:30:45 <kaz> ... think it's opposite to what we've been doing for Profile
13:31:28 <kaz> ... and don't see any benefit to think about a "MATTER Profile" because MATTER itself already works for its interoperability
13:31:47 <kaz> ... also whey do we need to think about OPC-UA Profile?
13:32:10 <kaz> ... Binding Template should describe the interface for Brown-field devices
13:32:29 <kaz> lb: ecosystems do have out-of-box interoperability issues
13:32:44 <kaz> ... more about describing something
13:32:57 <kaz> ... Binding doesn't handle restriction
13:33:11 <kaz> ... Profile would be better fit for that purpose
13:33:42 <kaz> ... if the Consumer is implementing some specific Profile, you can't handle that using Binding
13:34:05 <kaz> q?
13:34:07 <kaz> ack b
13:34:47 <kaz> ... if we have a Profile exposing a Thing, you for sure know about eveything that exposes the Thing
13:34:53 <kaz> s/evey/every/
13:35:14 <kaz> ... my Thing supports this, and OPC-UA Thing supports that
13:35:46 <kaz> ... you can use WoT as the bridge for something outside WoT
13:35:55 <kaz> q?
13:35:59 <kaz> qq+ Ben
13:36:29 <kaz> bf: that's not we've been handling for Profile...
13:36:47 <kaz> ... there are two possible ways Binding and Profile
13:37:16 <kaz> ... this discussion today is rather opposite to what Profile should do for "interoperability"
13:38:00 <kaz> lb: sort of feedback we got was we should handle brown-field devices too
13:38:16 <kaz> ... they can be easily considered as "Vendor Profiles"
13:38:59 <kaz> ... we want to focus more on the interoperability part
13:39:25 <kaz> ... we use Profile to provide a good way to cover everything
13:39:33 <kaz> ... provide a bridge for WoT
13:39:53 <kaz> ... we need something that is a way forward for the bridge
13:40:22 <kaz> ... I can see your point but we need to see a good balance
13:41:14 <kaz> bf: don't think it would be helpful to just thinking about supporting subset of WoT
13:42:30 <kaz> lb: nothing prevents you to have partial way
13:42:35 <benfrancis> q?
13:44:13 <kaz> bf: all MATTER devices are already interoperable themselves
13:44:33 <kaz> lb: within one specific ecosystem all the devices are interoperable
13:45:07 <kaz> ... but if we want to involve devices from another ecosystem, we need to support interoperability
13:45:22 <kaz> ... WoT is a solution for that purpose
13:45:30 <kaz> ack b
13:45:30 <Zakim> Ben, you wanted to react to benfrancis
13:45:47 <kaz> q?
13:46:48 <benfrancis> q+
13:47:19 <kaz> kaz: clarification on what Profile does is good
13:47:40 <benfrancis> q-
13:47:45 <kaz> ... but we should clarify what Profile does and Binding does based on some specific use case and component setting
13:47:47 <kaz> ack k
13:48:11 <Tomo> q+
13:48:20 <kaz> lb: agree most parts can be handled by Binding Template
13:49:07 <kaz> ... on the other hand, we have to make sure what to be done for ecosystems
13:49:29 <kaz> ... regarding the part about MATTER
13:49:42 <kaz> ... Koster mentioned that
13:49:59 <kaz> ... regarding OPC UA, they're ready for discussion
13:50:10 <kaz> bf: but can be handled by Binding Templates
13:50:15 <kaz> lb: right
13:50:31 <kaz> ... but Binding Templates can't handle everything
13:50:33 <kaz> q?
13:50:35 <kaz> q+
13:51:09 <kaz> bf: let's describe based on a concrete use case
13:51:36 <kaz> lb: can't say much about OPC UA itself since I'm not an expert of OPC UA
13:52:36 <kaz> s/component setting/component setting. For that purpose, probably we should start with our experienced examples./
13:52:41 <kaz> miz: agree with Kaz
13:53:12 <kaz> ... what is the purpose of standardization for Profile here?
13:53:17 <kaz> s/what/but what/
13:53:54 <kaz> lb: expected it would good to think about mapping between Profile and Ecosystem
13:54:04 <kaz> ... but it seems that's not a good idea
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13:54:53 <kaz> ... if we can find a good reason for this direction, we can get a good starting point
13:54:57 <Tomo> q+
13:55:11 <kaz> ... need out of box compatibility
13:55:48 <benfrancis> q+
13:56:03 <kaz> q-
13:56:04 <kaz> qq+
13:57:10 <kaz> q-
13:57:30 <kaz> kaz: we need to clarify the pain points for interoperability with external ecosystems a bit more
13:57:30 <Tomo> q-
13:57:58 <kaz> bf: can see the argument for OPC UA Profile
13:58:12 <Tomo> +1 for kaz
13:58:57 <kaz> ... maybe OPCF might want to use a WoT Profile but don't see benefit for a possible MATTER Profile
14:00:06 <benfrancis> q?
14:00:12 <kaz> ack b
14:00:40 <kaz> lb: wanted to see what can and can't be done for MATTER too based on Koster's feedback
14:00:54 <kaz> q+
14:01:12 <kaz> ack k
14:01:53 <kaz> ... during the next meeting, we can concentrate on the OPC UA part
14:02:22 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:02:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
14:03:00 <kaz> s/[adjourned]//
14:03:11 <kaz> ... next call will be held in 2 weeks
14:03:11 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:03:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
14:06:24 <kaz> s/we need to clarify/Basically, interoperability with other ecosystems can be handled by Binding Templates, but if there are any pain points with that, we need to clarify/
14:06:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:06:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
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