Meeting minutes
Review agenda and next meeting dates
Matt_King: Primary focus today is on the "slider" test plan
Matt_King: Requests for changes to agenda?
Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with what we've got
Matt_King: Next AT Driver Subgroup meeting: Monday July 22
Matt_King: Next community group meeting: Thursday, July 25
Current status
Matt_King: As far as I can tell, the status hasn't changed since last time
Matt_King: We're at 6 plans in the candidate review phase and one in draft review
Matt_King: A couple more are coming up soon after; we'll talk more about them, later
Testing of Color Viewer Slider
Matt_King: NVDA looks all the way done in the test queue, but two testers and with no conflicts
Matt_King: I think we can mark it as final
IsaDC: I'm okay with that
IsaDC: There were some minor conflicts, but I resolved them by updating my results
IsaDC: There seem to be plenty of conflicts with JAWS
Hadi: I have 10 conflicts in total, but I haven't raised any issues, yet
Hadi: The issues may be due to an incorrect expectation on my part
Hadi: I expect that when I press "right", it reads the new value--not the current value, followed by the new value
Hadi: When you press "Home" or "End", it reads the word "Home" or "End", but it doesn't do that when you press "Page Down" or the arrow keys
Hadi: This points to an inconsistency in behavior, and I think the vendors should know that
Matt_King: For the speaking of the name of the key, that is a JAWS settings thing. If you press "page up" and it says "page up", that's not a problem
Matt_King: If you press "up arrow" and it doesn't say "arrow problem", that's not a problem, either
Matt_King: Vispero is free to make decisions about how JAWS behaves in that regard
Matt_King: Saying the old value before the new, or repeating the same value more than one--those could be valid "excess verbosity" issues, perhaps with a minor impact
Hadi: The fact that it says, "Home" or "end", those are not the reason for the conflict. I simply mentioned that
Matt_King: We'll have to look at your conflicts. I already see some of the behaviors that you're talking about
IsaDC: I marked repeated output as "excess verbosity"
Hadi: I mentioned it with the "other" feature
IsaDC: Would you change your results to explicitly specify "excess verbosity," Hadi?
Matt_King: If you make that change, Hadi, that will probably resolve the conflicts
Matt_King: For me, "INSERT + Tab" is reading role, name, value, and orientation
IsaDC: Okay, that's what I get
IsaDC: But Hadi gets the minimum and maximum values
Matt_King: What I reported just now was for forms mode
Matt_King: For virtual cursor mode, I get the min and max, also
IsaDC: I don't get those. I think I'll re-test that
Matt_King: If you don't get them, we may have a conflict
Matt_King: By the way, I wonder whether announcing the min and max should be optional. Should it be a "may" or a "should"?
IsaDC: I think it should be a "may"
Hadi: I vote for "should
IdaDC: I think Vispero would vote for "may"
Matt_King: IT seems like for "INSERT + Tab", it should be a "should", but for "Up arrow" it should be a "may"
Matt_King: I'm using JAWS version 2024.2405.83
IsaDC: I'm using 2024.2406.121
Matt_King: You have a newer version. I should update mine
Hadi: I have the same version as you, Matt_King--05
Matt_King: I think before you do any more testing, you should update to the latest version
Matt_King: This sounds like it may be an intentional change
Matt_King: Now, let's talk about Safari
Matt_King: I am able to replicate Joe_Humbert's findings for increment and decrement for slider with Safari and VoiceOver
Matt_King: My Safari version is 17.5
IsaDC: I wonder if the type of computer matters. I've observed differences between macBook Pro and macBook Air in the past
IsaDC: I'm using Safari 17
Matt_King: I wonder if there are some updates available for your Mac. Maybe Safari sometimes does get updated even without a macOS updates. It might happen with other software updates
IsaDC: I can look into that. I can also test with my macBook Air
IsaDC: because I can't reproduce the reported issue; it works fine for me
Joe_Humbert: I was able to replicate it multiple times, but there was one time where I did it, it read the value. But when I immediately tried to observe that correct behavior again, it read the wrong value, instead
Matt_King: I think maybe they introduced a bug, and I think maybe if you update Safari, you'll see the same bug, IsaDC
IsaDC: I will try that today
IsaDC: If I test it on the macBook Air and I get it, I'll update the results
Matt_King: Hopefully, we'll have all that resolved soon. We're really close with "slider"--that's great!
Disclosure plan draft
Joe_Humbert: I can test with both VoiceOver and NVDA within the next two weeks
Hadi: I can also test on the timeline of 2 weeks
Matt_King: We'll make sure those two get signedup