13:44:47 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 13:44:51 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/11-i18n-irc 13:45:00 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 13:45:08 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b40424a9-1664-4b61-965c-27712bb6a648/20240711T150000/ 13:45:08 clear agenda 13:45:08 agenda+ Agenda Review 13:45:08 agenda+ Action Items 13:45:09 agenda+ Info Share 13:45:11 agenda+ RADAR Review 13:45:13 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 13:45:13 Chair: Addison Phillips 13:45:16 agenda+ PR Review 13:45:18 agenda+ AOB? 13:45:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/11-i18n-minutes.html addison 13:47:02 agenda+ Latest developments in the lreq area 13:59:07 present+ Addison 14:00:17 present+ Richard, Atsushi 14:01:06 present+ Fuqiao 14:03:21 JcK has joined #i18n 14:03:37 scribe: xfq 14:03:42 rrsagent, make minutes 14:03:44 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/11-i18n-minutes.html xfq 14:04:18 zakim, take up agendum 1 14:04:18 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:04:20 agenda? 14:04:40 present+ Bert 14:04:44 present+ JcK 14:04:51 zakim, take up agendum 2 14:04:51 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:05:06 #106 14:05:06 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/106 -> Action 106 write to ietf group about rfc9457 (on aphillips) due 2024-06-20 14:05:46 #93 14:05:47 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/93 -> Action 93 create best practices for consumers in string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-04-25 14:06:01 #90 14:06:01 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/90 -> Action 90 steal some of henri's text from scroll-to-text-fragment for string-search (on aphillips) due 2024-04-18 14:06:04 addison: #106, I realized that for whatever reason I wasn't subscribed to any list with my current email address 14:06:11 #89 14:06:12 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89 -> Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on xfq) due 2024-04-18 14:06:14 ... I have the email about halfway composed 14:06:26 #79 14:06:26 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/79 -> Action 79 schedule a follow-up call with WHATNOT in ~April (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07 14:06:28 ... I hope to finish that today 14:06:36 #78 14:06:36 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/78 -> Action 78 compare infra to i18n-glossary export list and report back (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07 14:07:13 #33 14:07:13 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips) 14:07:20 ... #78, keep that around until we have a chance to discuss things with that with WHATNOT 14:07:35 #8 14:07:36 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8 -> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 14:07:37 ... #33, I closed a couple this week 14:07:41 #7 14:07:42 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023 14:08:01 #4 14:08:02 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips, r12a) due 27 Jul 2023 14:08:23 zakim, take up agendum 3 14:08:23 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:09:04 addison: Unicode Technology Workshop 2 14:09:19 ... I was thinking of submitting a session or talk from a W3C topic 14:09:25 ... like string-meta 14:09:42 ... anybody have any info to share? 14:10:40 ... one of the things that happened when I resubscribe myself to various IETF lists was I showed up to the 1st piece of action item on the BCP 47 dev list 14:10:43 ... in like a year 14:11:04 ... some people are trying to work on a new extension for BCP 47 based on some ISO standard 14:11:34 ... the ISO standard has something to do with language varieties 14:12:33 ... I don't know what those language varieties mean 14:12:48 JcK: I looked at it very briefly 14:13:33 zakim, take up agendum 4 14:13:35 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:13:42 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1 14:14:01 addison: we have a new incoming request 14:14:07 ... Guidance on Applying WCAG 2 to Non-Web Information and Communications Technologies (WCAG2ICT) 14:14:25 ... does anybody want to shepherd this? 14:15:39 https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/ 14:16:28 xfq: this is not a completely new doc 14:16:36 ... I found a 2012 version of it 14:16:56 zakim, take up agendum 5 14:16:56 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:17:05 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending 14:17:10 xfq: I'll review wcag2ict-22 14:17:50 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1880 14:17:51 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1880 -> Issue 1880 Internationalization Checklist (by w3cbot) [tracker] [wg:das] [s:vibration] 14:18:03 agenda? 14:18:10 zakim, take up agendum 8 14:18:10 agendum 8 -- Latest developments in the lreq area -- taken up [from addison] 14:18:28 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/wiki/LReq-documents 14:19:15 r12a: this page lists all of the docs that I've been working on over the past 2 weeks 14:19:19 ... and it shows the status 14:19:41 ... we were due to publish a few docs on Tuesday, but I pulled plug on that 14:20:13 ... because as I finally got to the Arabic stuff I realized that we had a situation 14:20:26 ... since we're now doing things by script rather than by language 14:21:00 ... there was a mismatch between the existing layout requirements doc and the lreq doc which ha s links in it 14:21:45 ... the Latin stuff we'd been talking about, taking the text from the dpub people 14:22:02 ... we now have a much cleaner model 14:22:08 ... it's much easier to maintain this model 14:22:18 ... and it's quite a useful model as well 14:22:25 ... we now have a gap analysis document 14:22:39 ... which is the same as the gap analysis document as before 14:22:53 ... and we have the script resources document 14:23:05 ... and that is just a list of links basically 14:23:18 ... in some cases we have one or more other documents 14:23:26 ... which are the old layout requirements 14:23:45 ... and perhaps who knows in the future, some new layout requirements as well 14:24:08 addison: do we want to have a different name for the linky documents? 14:24:29 ... we have a history of calling layout requirements the ones with the prose in them 14:25:16 r12a: the linky stuff, which I'm calling Arabic Script Resources, or Latin Script Resources 14:25:31 addison: short names are somewhat forever 14:25:54 ... are you happy calling script resources lreq? 14:26:00 r12a: yeah, I think that's fine 14:26:20 ... because these are layout requirements resources 14:27:22 addison: we have a resolution to publish some of these script resources documents 14:27:31 ... is your proposal to add some others to that list? 14:28:10 r12a: the next step is to publish some FP Draft Notes this week 14:28:35 ... which is my proposal for the set that we should publish next Tuesday 14:28:44 arab-lreq, hani-lreq, latn-lreq, latn-gap, beng-lreq, deva-lreq 14:28:47 ... I'll put the list ^ 14:29:07 addison: I think we mostly approved them, but some of them look new 14:29:10 ... Bengali 14:29:21 r12a: Chinese is new 14:29:59 q+ 14:30:35 r12a: about Tamil and Tibetan 14:30:49 ... they have basically nothing in the document 14:31:00 q+ 14:31:02 ... I'd like to keep the URLs alive 14:31:09 ack next 14:31:25 xfq: since richard mentioned chinese in the set of documents 14:31:27 https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/619#issuecomment-2119208421 14:31:28 https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/619 -> Issue 619 Feedback on Chinese Layout Requirements Links (Draft) (by eisoch) 14:31:33 ... want to mention we have an open issue ^ 14:31:47 ... about the chinese document that you might want to review before publication 14:32:02 richard: can you summarize? 14:32:15 xfq: it's about number of characters 14:32:27 ... people think that it's weird to refer to the CLDR list 14:32:52 ... don't know where that is from, CN, TW, HK, etc. have regulations about what is considered "roughly common" chinese characters 14:32:58 ... better to link to these resources 14:33:05 ... another comment is about combining marks 14:33:15 ... doc mentions no chinese marks 14:33:25 ... but some people mention there are some about tones 14:33:43 ... could say "chinese has no commonly used" or not in daily use or something 14:34:15 richard: there is a section at the top that gives the "flavor" of the section 14:34:28 xfq: good if there are no factual inaccuracies 14:34:36 richard: can make some changes 14:34:59 ... about combining marks, so the tone marks are used with the Han characters?? or used with pinyin? 14:35:08 xfq: used with ideographs 14:35:13 ... will find examples 14:35:33 ack next 14:36:21 catalan, dutch, french, german, hungarian 14:36:29 proposed: publish arab-lreq, hani-lreq, latn-lreq, latn-gap, beng-lreq, deva-lreq as FPWD 14:36:39 +1 14:36:40 +1 14:36:45 s/catalan, dutch, french, german, hungarian// 14:36:47 +1 14:36:50 +1 14:37:17 +1 14:37:17 +1 14:37:20 RESOLVED: publish arab-lreq, hani-lreq, latn-lreq, latn-gap, beng-lreq, deva-lreq as FPWD 14:37:54 catalan, dutch, french, german, hungarian 14:38:03 uighur gap 14:38:03 uighur lreq 14:38:03 urdu gap 14:38:05 urdu lreq 14:38:07 kashmiri gap 14:38:08 r12a: these are all gap analysis documents 14:38:09 kashmiri lreq 14:39:47 addison: is that a thing we need to vote on? 14:39:59 ... because we'd be changing the status 14:40:21 r12a: I don't know whether we need to vote either, but I thought at least I should mention it 14:40:42 addison: does anyone object to us converting all of these to historic? 14:41:01 RESOLVED: convert any of catalan, dutch, french, german, hungarian, uighur gap/lreq, urdu gap/lreq, kashmiri gap/lreq to historic 14:42:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/11-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:42:46 r12a: I've been through every one of these documents this week and rewritten the introduction 14:42:50 ... and the abstract 14:42:52 agenda? 14:42:54 ... and the sotd 14:42:59 ... to make it clearer 14:43:26 zakim, take up agendum 6 14:43:26 agendum 6 -- PR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:43:30 ... we're getting some new things coming through as well 14:43:37 ... so there'll be a set of documents 14:43:44 ... Myanmar, Sundanese etc. 14:43:49 https://github.com/aphillips/i18n-drafts/blob/gh-pages/articles/language-negotiation/language-negotiation.md 14:43:53 addison: PRs in progress 14:44:31 s/Myanmar/Cyrillic, Myanmar/ 14:44:36 addison: will fix the list structure if/when we convert this to HTML 14:44:58 ... there was a question because I used the terms language and locale negotiation 14:45:08 ... so I've added defs to clarify 14:45:15 ... they are the same thing really 14:45:27 ... I continue to welcome comments on this 14:45:31 https://deploy-preview-591--i18n-drafts.netlify.app/questions/qa-direction-native.html 14:45:37 ... it's getting closer to being ready 14:45:58 ... the second one is "How can I use direction metadata in native APIs?" 14:46:13 ... I have incorporated the comments 14:47:34 r12a: it's a bit strange that the "Leave a comment" comment in "FURTHER READING" doesn't actually appear to do anything 14:48:01 ... you could just duplicate the stuff that's behind the real "Leave a comment" 14:49:49 action: xfq: publish qa-direction-native to website after addison finishes the tweak 14:49:56 Created -> action #111 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/111 14:50:03 https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/aphillips/string-meta/pull/87.html#bp-consumers 14:50:53 addison: the red box in there would be replaced with a link to the thing I just gave an action to xfq to publish 14:51:06 ... is there anything left to do before I merge it? 14:51:50 r12a: you didn't use bdi 14:51:57 ... you just use an ordinary span element 14:52:03 ... I was wondering why 14:52:19 addison: it's to show that any element could do this 14:52:39 ... if you want me to highlight bdi, I could do that 14:52:59 r12a: we're sort of getting into tutorial, don't we? 14:53:05 ... my recommendation would be to use bdi 14:53:54 addison: should I take the span off and just make it look like You are currently reading {$title} 14:54:06 ... and then show it with bdi after the insert 14:54:40 ... I'll make changes 14:54:53 ... is this example getting so long that it should just be text? 14:55:00 ... is the yellow box doing any good? 14:55:47 ... r12a, you have a preference that we don't have a section with a bunch of prose @@ 14:56:39 ... I'll do another round 14:56:52 agenda? 14:57:03 zakim, take up agendum 7 14:57:03 agendum 7 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:57:41 rrsagent, make minutes 14:57:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/11-i18n-minutes.html xfq 14:57:49 zakim, make minutes 14:57:49 I don't understand 'make minutes', addison 14:57:49 rrsagent, make minutes 14:57:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/11-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:57:56 zakim, who is here? 14:57:56 Present: Addison, Richard, Atsushi, Fuqiao, Bert, JcK 14:57:58 On IRC I see JcK, RRSAgent, Zakim, addison, gb, r12a, atsushi, florian, astearns, hadleybeeman, cwilso, Rachael, koji, hsivonen, alastairc, csarven, Mek, fantasai, agendabot, Bert, 14:57:58 ... eemeli, xfq 14:58:02 zakim, bye 14:58:02 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Richard, Atsushi, Fuqiao, Bert, JcK 14:58:02 Zakim has left #i18n 15:03:07 bigbluehat has joined #i18n