IRC log of wot-script on 2024-07-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:02:13 [RRSAgent]
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11:02:17 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-irc
11:02:18 [kaz]
meeting: WoT Scripting API
11:03:17 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Jan_Romann, Luca_Barbato, Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:03:48 [Tomo]
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11:05:21 [kaz]
present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
11:07:37 [JKRhb]
rrsagent, please draft the minutes
11:07:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html JKRhb
11:07:52 [dape]
dape has joined #wot-script
11:08:12 [JKRhb]
rrsagent, make log public
11:08:25 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Scripting_API_WebConf#July_8%2C_2024
11:08:32 [kaz]
present+ Daniel_Peintner
11:08:36 [cris]
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11:08:49 [kaz]
scribenick: JKRhb
11:08:50 [JKRhb]
scribenick: JKRhb
11:09:24 [JKRhb]
topic: Minutes Review
11:09:38 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2024/06/10-wot-script-minutes.html June-10
11:09:55 [JKRhb]
ca: Let's have a look at the previous minutes, checked them before the call, they looked fine
11:10:09 [JKRhb]
... last time, we updated the Wiki, discussed some PRs
11:10:25 [JKRhb]
... some non-technical ones, discussed some aspects of the discovery method
11:10:34 [JKRhb]
... if there are no objections, minutes are approved
11:10:44 [JKRhb]
No objections, minutes are approved
11:10:51 [JKRhb]
topic: Agenda Review
11:11:00 [JKRhb]
ca: Let's see which PRs we have pending
11:11:11 [JKRhb]
... I think we can quickly resolve a bunch of those
11:11:28 [JKRhb]
... (updates the Wiki with the respective links)
11:12:13 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
11:12:17 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:12:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:12:24 [zkis]
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11:12:28 [kaz]
present+ Zoltan_Kis
11:12:30 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:12:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:12:54 [kaz]
chair: Cristiano
11:13:04 [JKRhb]
... did you make any progress on the PR on the exploreDirectory method, Jan?
11:13:33 [JKRhb]
jr: made some changes, needs some more work, though
11:13:40 [JKRhb]
ca: Then we can discuss it next
11:13:44 [JKRhb]
... time
11:13:54 [JKRhb]
ca: Then let's look at the issues
11:14:21 [JKRhb]
... looks like there haven't been any updates, maybe we can check next time when there have been changes
11:14:23 [kaz]
i/did you make any/subtopic: PR 551/
11:14:25 [JKRhb]
topic: PRs
11:14:33 [JKRhb]
subtopic: PR 556
11:14:36 [cris]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/556
11:14:44 [kaz]
i|did you make any|-> Add clarifications for discover method|
11:14:59 [kaz]
s/it next/it next time/
11:15:05 [kaz]
s/... time//
11:15:06 [JKRhb]
ca: There was a discussion in the TD taskforce about the new ReSpec feature for enabling dark mode
11:15:18 [kaz]
i/Then let's look at the/subtopic: Issues/
11:15:26 [JKRhb]
... pretty trivial changes, approved by Daniel
11:15:38 [JKRhb]
... hearing no objections, can merge as is
11:15:43 [JKRhb]
Merged
11:15:46 [JKRhb]
ca: One down
11:15:49 [kaz]
s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/556|-">https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/556|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/556 chore: enable dark mode support|
11:15:54 [JKRhb]
subtopic: PR 557
11:16:30 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/557 PR 557 - fix(ThingDiscoveryProcess): clarify usage of url field|
11:16:35 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:16:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:17:10 [zkis]
q+
11:18:05 [JKRhb]
jr: Just updates the documentation for the URL field of the ThingDiscoveryProcess
11:18:38 [JKRhb]
ca: I think this is better, just improves documentation, pretty trivial
11:19:09 [JKRhb]
jr: Maybe we can create a second constructor to set the url field, I think that might better
11:20:35 [JKRhb]
zk: It is a better pattern to use a factory or an asynchronous method, we can discuss this in another context, however
11:20:56 [JKRhb]
... mostly depends how developers should use it
11:21:19 [JKRhb]
ca: Where are we creating this object, in the exploreDirectory method?
11:23:07 [JKRhb]
zk: Need to connect this to the broader developer story, we had another PR on discovery
11:23:34 [JKRhb]
... should do it a bigger PR if we want to change the developer story
11:23:36 [JKRhb]
q+
11:23:44 [zkis]
ack zk
11:24:33 [zkis]
q+
11:24:48 [JKRhb]
ack j
11:25:36 [JKRhb]
jr: Tried to generalize this, as the interface was used both by the exploreDirectory and the discover method
11:26:02 [JKRhb]
ca: In my mind this should accept the url as a first parameter
11:27:07 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:27:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:27:39 [luca_barbato]
q+
11:28:09 [JKRhb]
zk: If we want to use a url with the discover method, we might need to differentiate between directory and non-directory URLs
11:28:25 [dape]
ack zkis
11:28:30 [JKRhb]
... are the use cases for discovering from multiple directories?
11:29:11 [JKRhb]
... having the exploreDirectory method as a convenience method is good from a developer's point of view
11:29:31 [JKRhb]
lb: Sometimes we want to be able to just discover things around us
11:30:19 [JKRhb]
... we need to consider that when we are using wide-area discovery and find directories in the local network, we might just want to have the whole list compressed
11:30:56 [JKRhb]
... maybe we want to have two methods, one of which provides a flat list and one that provides a structured list with additional data
11:30:57 [kaz]
s|Add clarifications for discover method|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/551 Add clarifications for discover method|
11:30:59 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:31:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:31:54 [JKRhb]
... we also need to consider that these methods might be asynchronous, so we might provide a query and the discoverer might decide how to process the results
11:32:41 [JKRhb]
... if we look at the API of the mDNS implementation, there might be implementations that go into one direction or into another, so we might need to decide in which direction we want to go
11:33:05 [JKRhb]
ca: Maybe we can provide a default, but still make it possible to use the other
11:33:32 [JKRhb]
zk: We can integrate it into the developer story, can define how recursive discovery works
11:33:56 [kaz]
-> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/JKRhb/wot-scripting-api/pull/557.html#example-discover-things-via-directory Example 10: Discover Thing via directory from the Preview
11:34:42 [JKRhb]
ca: So you could get the Thing Descriptions for the directory and then follow them based on a query or you could simply get the TDD TDs
11:35:33 [JKRhb]
lb: That might work with mDNS, but might not work anymore with other discovery methods such as DID or CoRE Links, the latter of which kind of works like a DID document
11:35:52 [JKRhb]
ca: So you mean that we might lose some information when we use these two approaches
11:36:15 [JKRhb]
lb: Let's recap then: We have mDNS, CoRE Link Format, DID
11:36:32 [JKRhb]
... we then also have well-known URIs, which we can gloss over
11:37:01 [JKRhb]
... we can provide configurations that can then be processed
11:37:31 [JKRhb]
zk: So the question is then if we have Thing Descriptions corresponding with these introduction methods
11:37:44 [JKRhb]
... and if and how we can represent those in the Scripting API
11:38:48 [JKRhb]
lb: It should always be possible to express these as Thing Descriptions
11:39:27 [JKRhb]
ca: This is a bit weird for me, as the forms are not fitting
11:39:47 [JKRhb]
... as you are also not sure whether you are communicating with a REST-based interface (?)
11:41:29 [JKRhb]
lb: This would force us to refine the TDD API, although I would not like implementations to support SPARQL by default
11:42:28 [JKRhb]
zk: I think we should not assume that we always have a gateway directory, but it should always be possible to interact with it
11:43:37 [JKRhb]
ca: What I like about this idea of a local Thing Directory is that I had some use cases corresponding with that and we would not need to specify the URL
11:44:29 [JKRhb]
... you would have the same API locally as for any other TDD
11:44:44 [JKRhb]
zk: That was the idea behind the discover method
11:45:12 [JKRhb]
ca: We can simply map the discover method to the API defined in the Discovery specification
11:45:46 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-discovery/#exploration-directory WoT Discovery - 7.3 Thing Description Directory
11:45:49 [JKRhb]
zk: We can just use it via specifying a "local" string
11:45:52 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:45:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:46:00 [JKRhb]
ca: We can explore this idea
11:46:01 [dape]
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11:46:56 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-discovery/#exploration-directory-api WoT Discovery - 7.3.2 Directory Service API
11:47:19 [JKRhb]
... would get rid of the other discover method
11:47:37 [JKRhb]
zk: Only thing is that the local TDD would be a singleton
11:48:11 [JKRhb]
ca: That would probably be a detail in the algorithm, staying you would always return the same instance if you call the method twice
11:48:31 [JKRhb]
q+
11:48:55 [dape]
ack luca_barbato
11:49:08 [JKRhb]
... you would only instantiate a new object if you are interacting with non-local directory
11:49:32 [kaz]
q+
11:49:38 [JKRhb]
zk: We need to also think about what we mean with discovery session and what happens if we stop it
11:50:08 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:50:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:51:58 [dape]
ack JKRhb
11:52:05 [dape]
ack kaz
11:52:33 [JKRhb]
ca: We have an Events API, where we could also listen for certain events, generally the interface abstracts away the actual introduction methods
11:53:50 [JKRhb]
kaz: Very important topic, need to think about how to assign IDs to individual discovery instances, also looks to me if the current Discovery specification is not concrete enough for purposes like the Scripting API, so we need to clarify this
11:54:34 [JKRhb]
ca: Just to clarify: You mean with the ID mechanism that you need to have a way to differentiate Thing Discovery processes
11:55:00 [JKRhb]
kaz: We have IDs in TDs, but also IDs for JavaScript objects for example, should be clarified
11:55:19 [zkis]
q+
11:55:46 [kaz]
q?
11:55:49 [JKRhb]
ca: This relationship definitely needs to be clarified and simplified in the Discovery specification, at the moment IDs are also not mandatory for TDs
11:56:18 [JKRhb]
kaz: The place where this relationship is defined needs to be found
11:56:35 [kaz]
s/found/clarified too/
11:56:53 [JKRhb]
zk: We can also have a one-to-one mapping of the Discovery specification to the Scripting API
11:57:25 [kaz]
s/too/too (WoT Discovery spec, WoT Scripting API spec or something else?)/
11:57:32 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:57:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:57:40 [JKRhb]
ca: We need more implementation experience, also discussed this with Ege that this could be a topic for the plugfest in November
11:58:16 [JKRhb]
zk: I think we should make some example use cases for IoT scenarios
11:59:04 [JKRhb]
... the other use case is then also using it from a web page, which we don't have covered yet fully, although we currently mostly cover Node.js
11:59:19 [JKRhb]
ca: Then back to the main topic, I think we can merge this PR
11:59:25 [JKRhb]
topic: Issues
11:59:48 [JKRhb]
ca: We have these three issues here left, which we really need to discuss next time
12:00:08 [JKRhb]
... for now we are out of time, though
12:00:13 [JKRhb]
[adjourned]
12:00:26 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:00:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
13:57:39 [Zakim]
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