11:02:13 RRSAgent has joined #wot-script 11:02:17 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-irc 11:02:18 meeting: WoT Scripting API 11:03:17 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Jan_Romann, Luca_Barbato, Tomoaki_Mizushima 11:03:48 Tomo has joined #wot-script 11:05:21 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi 11:07:37 rrsagent, please draft the minutes 11:07:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html JKRhb 11:07:52 dape has joined #wot-script 11:08:12 rrsagent, make log public 11:08:25 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Scripting_API_WebConf#July_8%2C_2024 11:08:32 present+ Daniel_Peintner 11:08:36 cris has joined #wot-script 11:08:49 scribenick: JKRhb 11:08:50 scribenick: JKRhb 11:09:24 topic: Minutes Review 11:09:38 -> https://www.w3.org/2024/06/10-wot-script-minutes.html June-10 11:09:55 ca: Let's have a look at the previous minutes, checked them before the call, they looked fine 11:10:09 ... last time, we updated the Wiki, discussed some PRs 11:10:25 ... some non-technical ones, discussed some aspects of the discovery method 11:10:34 ... if there are no objections, minutes are approved 11:10:44 No objections, minutes are approved 11:10:51 topic: Agenda Review 11:11:00 ca: Let's see which PRs we have pending 11:11:11 ... I think we can quickly resolve a bunch of those 11:11:28 ... (updates the Wiki with the respective links) 11:12:13 rrsagent, make log public 11:12:17 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:12:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz 11:12:24 zkis has joined #wot-script 11:12:28 present+ Zoltan_Kis 11:12:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:12:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz 11:12:54 chair: Cristiano 11:13:04 ... did you make any progress on the PR on the exploreDirectory method, Jan? 11:13:33 jr: made some changes, needs some more work, though 11:13:40 ca: Then we can discuss it next 11:13:44 ... time 11:13:54 ca: Then let's look at the issues 11:14:21 ... looks like there haven't been any updates, maybe we can check next time when there have been changes 11:14:23 i/did you make any/subtopic: PR 551/ 11:14:25 topic: PRs 11:14:33 subtopic: PR 556 11:14:36 https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/556 11:14:44 i|did you make any|-> Add clarifications for discover method| 11:14:59 s/it next/it next time/ 11:15:05 s/... time// 11:15:06 ca: There was a discussion in the TD taskforce about the new ReSpec feature for enabling dark mode 11:15:18 i/Then let's look at the/subtopic: Issues/ 11:15:26 ... pretty trivial changes, approved by Daniel 11:15:38 ... hearing no objections, can merge as is 11:15:43 Merged 11:15:46 ca: One down 11:15:49 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/556|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/556 chore: enable dark mode support| 11:15:54 subtopic: PR 557 11:16:30 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/557 PR 557 - fix(ThingDiscoveryProcess): clarify usage of url field| 11:16:35 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:16:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz 11:17:10 q+ 11:18:05 jr: Just updates the documentation for the URL field of the ThingDiscoveryProcess 11:18:38 ca: I think this is better, just improves documentation, pretty trivial 11:19:09 jr: Maybe we can create a second constructor to set the url field, I think that might better 11:20:35 zk: It is a better pattern to use a factory or an asynchronous method, we can discuss this in another context, however 11:20:56 ... mostly depends how developers should use it 11:21:19 ca: Where are we creating this object, in the exploreDirectory method? 11:23:07 zk: Need to connect this to the broader developer story, we had another PR on discovery 11:23:34 ... should do it a bigger PR if we want to change the developer story 11:23:36 q+ 11:23:44 ack zk 11:24:33 q+ 11:24:48 ack j 11:25:36 jr: Tried to generalize this, as the interface was used both by the exploreDirectory and the discover method 11:26:02 ca: In my mind this should accept the url as a first parameter 11:27:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:27:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz 11:27:39 q+ 11:28:09 zk: If we want to use a url with the discover method, we might need to differentiate between directory and non-directory URLs 11:28:25 ack zkis 11:28:30 ... are the use cases for discovering from multiple directories? 11:29:11 ... having the exploreDirectory method as a convenience method is good from a developer's point of view 11:29:31 lb: Sometimes we want to be able to just discover things around us 11:30:19 ... we need to consider that when we are using wide-area discovery and find directories in the local network, we might just want to have the whole list compressed 11:30:56 ... maybe we want to have two methods, one of which provides a flat list and one that provides a structured list with additional data 11:30:57 s|Add clarifications for discover method|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/551 Add clarifications for discover method| 11:30:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:31:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz 11:31:54 ... we also need to consider that these methods might be asynchronous, so we might provide a query and the discoverer might decide how to process the results 11:32:41 ... if we look at the API of the mDNS implementation, there might be implementations that go into one direction or into another, so we might need to decide in which direction we want to go 11:33:05 ca: Maybe we can provide a default, but still make it possible to use the other 11:33:32 zk: We can integrate it into the developer story, can define how recursive discovery works 11:33:56 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/JKRhb/wot-scripting-api/pull/557.html#example-discover-things-via-directory Example 10: Discover Thing via directory from the Preview 11:34:42 ca: So you could get the Thing Descriptions for the directory and then follow them based on a query or you could simply get the TDD TDs 11:35:33 lb: That might work with mDNS, but might not work anymore with other discovery methods such as DID or CoRE Links, the latter of which kind of works like a DID document 11:35:52 ca: So you mean that we might lose some information when we use these two approaches 11:36:15 lb: Let's recap then: We have mDNS, CoRE Link Format, DID 11:36:32 ... we then also have well-known URIs, which we can gloss over 11:37:01 ... we can provide configurations that can then be processed 11:37:31 zk: So the question is then if we have Thing Descriptions corresponding with these introduction methods 11:37:44 ... and if and how we can represent those in the Scripting API 11:38:48 lb: It should always be possible to express these as Thing Descriptions 11:39:27 ca: This is a bit weird for me, as the forms are not fitting 11:39:47 ... as you are also not sure whether you are communicating with a REST-based interface (?) 11:41:29 lb: This would force us to refine the TDD API, although I would not like implementations to support SPARQL by default 11:42:28 zk: I think we should not assume that we always have a gateway directory, but it should always be possible to interact with it 11:43:37 ca: What I like about this idea of a local Thing Directory is that I had some use cases corresponding with that and we would not need to specify the URL 11:44:29 ... you would have the same API locally as for any other TDD 11:44:44 zk: That was the idea behind the discover method 11:45:12 ca: We can simply map the discover method to the API defined in the Discovery specification 11:45:46 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-discovery/#exploration-directory WoT Discovery - 7.3 Thing Description Directory 11:45:49 zk: We can just use it via specifying a "local" string 11:45:52 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:45:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz 11:46:00 ca: We can explore this idea 11:46:01 dape has joined #wot-script 11:46:56 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-discovery/#exploration-directory-api WoT Discovery - 7.3.2 Directory Service API 11:47:19 ... would get rid of the other discover method 11:47:37 zk: Only thing is that the local TDD would be a singleton 11:48:11 ca: That would probably be a detail in the algorithm, staying you would always return the same instance if you call the method twice 11:48:31 q+ 11:48:55 ack luca_barbato 11:49:08 ... you would only instantiate a new object if you are interacting with non-local directory 11:49:32 q+ 11:49:38 zk: We need to also think about what we mean with discovery session and what happens if we stop it 11:50:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:50:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz 11:51:58 ack JKRhb 11:52:05 ack kaz 11:52:33 ca: We have an Events API, where we could also listen for certain events, generally the interface abstracts away the actual introduction methods 11:53:50 kaz: Very important topic, need to think about how to assign IDs to individual discovery instances, also looks to me if the current Discovery specification is not concrete enough for purposes like the Scripting API, so we need to clarify this 11:54:34 ca: Just to clarify: You mean with the ID mechanism that you need to have a way to differentiate Thing Discovery processes 11:55:00 kaz: We have IDs in TDs, but also IDs for JavaScript objects for example, should be clarified 11:55:19 q+ 11:55:46 q? 11:55:49 ca: This relationship definitely needs to be clarified and simplified in the Discovery specification, at the moment IDs are also not mandatory for TDs 11:56:18 kaz: The place where this relationship is defined needs to be found 11:56:35 s/found/clarified too/ 11:56:53 zk: We can also have a one-to-one mapping of the Discovery specification to the Scripting API 11:57:25 s/too/too (WoT Discovery spec, WoT Scripting API spec or something else?)/ 11:57:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:57:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz 11:57:40 ca: We need more implementation experience, also discussed this with Ege that this could be a topic for the plugfest in November 11:58:16 zk: I think we should make some example use cases for IoT scenarios 11:59:04 ... the other use case is then also using it from a web page, which we don't have covered yet fully, although we currently mostly cover Node.js 11:59:19 ca: Then back to the main topic, I think we can merge this PR 11:59:25 topic: Issues 11:59:48 ca: We have these three issues here left, which we really need to discuss next time 12:00:08 ... for now we are out of time, though 12:00:13 [adjourned] 12:00:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:00:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/08-wot-script-minutes.html kaz 13:57:39 Zakim has left #wot-script