– DRAFT –
AGWG Teleconference

<alastairc> Review consolidation - including moving the adjustment requirements https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/101

ag: welcome everyone.

Announcements

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/TPAC/

ac: TPAC 2024 registration is now open: https://www.w3.org/2024/09/TPAC/
… early bird ticket time.

chuck: Guidance on Applying WCAG 2 to Non-Web Information and Communications Technologies (WCAG2ICT) was approved.

<bruce_bailey> WCAG2ICT email: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-announce/2024JulSep/0000.html

Maryjo: it is out for review. comments due by august 5
… next publication will be as a note.

WCAG 2.x issues https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2-issues/2024Jun/0009.html

<mbgower> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/56/views/1

ac: email went out 24 Jun 2024 . one normative change.
… Change <ol> to <ul> when no order is intended (normative)
… #3756<w3c/wcag#3756>

<bruce_bailey> AG WG email: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2024AprJun/0143.html

mg: will pick them up as a cfc. No date in mind yet.
… we are queuing them up.
… 10 things for WG approval.
… please provide feedback. For proposed substantive or editorial changes. Give a thumbs up on the pull request description to agree. (We are looking for >4)
… Or provide feedback in the Conversation to request changes
… Based on feedback, those changes will be merged or brought back for another review.
… For proposed draft responses to issues, give a thumbs up or comment.

<alastairc> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2-issues/2024Jun/0009.html

ac: we have one normative change.
… please review proposed changes.

mg: the email has info on how participate in future task force work.

mg: we have reduced the number of issues. we are making progress.

Review consolidation - including moving the adjustment requirements https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/101

ac: on open discussion on Consolidating Outcomes.
… we have a proposal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GL-jyZ7CuYb-fms_jTKEe1YTAUZAH0EXkU3yqbRg5f4/edit#heading=h.8n8glns7lrs4
… user control outcomes move them into other appropriate areas.

detlev: aim to distribute all of them? and have just a few left?

ac: there is a balance. We don't have place to put some of them.
… color may end up in 2 of 3 places. It may cause some duplication.
… any thoughts?

detlev: idea would be to split them where needed.
… likely can be a clear split.

<Detlev> that may be a good reason to distribute them - agree

ac: can have preq. so they are related. So it might not work if they are all separated.

gn: themes need to be protected against manipulation by browser. Don't see how 2 really connect.

ac: perquisite or baseline could say something about respecting user prefs.
… trying to construct decision trees in the right place.

gn: if app provides themes, then this exceeds the baseline requirements?

ac: yes.
… make a progression from user agents to author responsibility.

<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/101

ac: please add your comments to the discussion.

rm: address top 3 outcomes?

bruce: It feels to me like a category error to have seizure triggers in the same grouping as Avoiding Motion and Audio Shifting.
… they are not safety issues.

<kirkwood> disagree, they are safety issues, no?

<Jon_avila> Motion does cause physical effects for people

<tburtin> I disagree from lived experience. They can cause significant harm.

bruce: from what I have hear, they can be significant issues.
… we may be able to make some distinctions.

<ToddL> Inaccessible motion and animation triggers migraine headaches in my instance, so it does harm

rain: we had number of people on the task force who have direct experience and research.
… it is possible for some people to experience similar levels of harm as flashing.

<GN015> What is "lived experience" in this context?

<alastairc> GN015 - it's a phrase to mean: Someone who has experienced it in their day to day life.

<bruce_bailey> thank you

rain: risk of fainting could be potentially life-threatening.

<kirkwood> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631498/

<GN015> I see, thank you.

<Zakim> mbgower, you wanted to say isn't this a system requirement for mono?

mg: not sure how you would measure the threshold.
… is it an author responsibility?

<Jon_avila> It's an author responsibility when using platform mono would loss functionality.

ac: could be system. could be an author.

TheoHale: what is the criteria?
… may not fit in the category but may be harder to define and figure out.

ac: some outcomes may be met automatically.

<Zakim> mbgower, you wanted to say that then isn't the requirement something like a non-audio indicator of location-specific sound

ac: we are approaching this differently than WCAG 2.

mg: audio shifting is in not these ones. We need to be concerned with an outcome for what the information conveys.

<mbgower> In other words, doing no harm is the top requirement, but another requirement which is NOT as critical is 'provide the information another way'

<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/101

mg: doing no harm is the top requirement.

Review Template for the subgroups https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MHJwOWJhGZS4zZYiF9ufNfxTmqFf6bf07vNHAAgfylE/edit

ac: will be assigning people to the subgroups.

<kirkwood> link to survey?

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/subgroups-june-24/

<Chuck> The survey is presently open until July 8

ac: we will be filling in the outcome template.
… subgroup will review the previous scratch pad. Gather examples. Construct a decision tree. Fill in the methods.
… Bring back to the AGWG.
… We have 2 conformance models to test.
… how do we categorize each method.?
… Prerequisite (small subset) Safety Issues, Needed for AT to work, likely to prevent task completion even with ideal AT support.
… Baseline (larger subset) -

Baseline (larger subset) - Author provided methods that aren’t currently met by AT, applicable to all sites and products.
… Enhanced: Can be met in other ways, or may be domain specific.

<alastairc> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17VJvnm5UQW4WUzIoo9QNPVGfePgaZa8ifZWs-wtmv7E/edit#slide=id.g2e950361df5_0_27

ac: we can start going through an example.
… make a copy of the template.
… look at the scratchpad and find the outcomes.
… go through the information and create a Decision Tree.
… could be very basic.

<Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to ask for a scribe change

ac: Any questions?

<laura> s/prerequisits/prerequisites/

ac: please sign up for a subgroup.

Bruce: some of the subgroup work will be a tis meeting time?
… it is a consideration.

<laura> s/think its realistic /think it is realistic /

<alastairc> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fw0-q4_iZPZ44_PmvUbJBH8CtQtxwXEXlJ3jac1T5JY/edit?gid=1073399112#gid=1073399112

<alastairc> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cNu7Un_pa-rTKKIosLB6cS6Ic8QArGELJkINchvaUME/edit#heading=h.8n8glns7lrs4

<alastairc> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Njhx88F2LhwcElu74Jgynx-cRmLJkQONt9hGBJ9Cm8/edit#heading=h.qai4hld5jxjt

<alastairc> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MHJwOWJhGZS4zZYiF9ufNfxTmqFf6bf07vNHAAgfylE/edit

<mbgower> it's made by a German director, but speaking of clean cities in Japan, this beautiful quiet film about a public toilet cleaner was one of my favourite films this past year https://www.perfectdays-movie.jp/en/