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13:31:18 <dom> Present+ Sudeep, ChrisN, JuanCabaleero, Kaz, MichaelMcCool, SongXu, DanD, Dapeng, Eric, Piers, Dom
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13:31:48 <dom> Meeting: Web & Networks Interest Group Meeting
13:31:55 <dom> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-networks-ig/2024Jun/0000.html
13:32:01 <dom> Chairs: Sudeep, DanD, SongXu
13:32:14 <dom> Slideset: @@@
13:36:29 <dom> Topic: Smart Cities & Networks IG
13:36:42 <dom> Song: Thank you Kaz for joining us today to discuss Smart Cities
13:37:04 <dom> ... I would like to start by sharing China Mobile's perspective on Smart Cities and DIgital Twins
13:37:11 <dom> Slideset: ###
13:37:17 <kaz> i|Thank|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/06/smart-cities/ proposed Charter for the Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities IG|
13:37:26 <dom> [slide 2]
13:38:22 <dom> [slide 3]
13:41:01 <dom> Song: our research has shown that e.g. surveillance cameras fed into vision recognition systems requires lots of bandwidth and storage in backend systems
13:41:21 <dom> ... which could be e.g. better handled at the device level
13:41:26 <dom> [slide 4]
13:41:50 <dom> Song: we use smart cities technologies to solve traffic problems in big cities
13:42:47 <dom> ... e.g. in one of the cities with more than 2M vehicles, 900K buses, with 50K routes with lots of crossing required
13:44:01 <dom> ... we can identify 3 levels of traffic in terms of how the vehicles on the road match the city capacity: low, intermediate, excess
13:44:42 <dom> ... these levels of traffic can be mapped to average vehicle speed (from 37km/h to stuck traffic)
13:44:44 <dom> [slide 5]
13:44:54 <dom> Song: in terms of use cases for the Web & Networks IG
13:45:34 <dom> ... looking back at the 3 categories of links needed in Smart Cities: transmission is the 2nd one, key to real-time monitoring
13:45:55 <dom> ... with video data accounting to 70%+ in these scenarios
13:46:28 <dom> ... efficient transmission of the effective features of these video streams are critical
13:48:28 <dom> [slide 6]
13:50:30 <dom> Kaz: There is a proposed charter for the Smart Cities IG under Advisory Committee review, recently completed with the names of the proposed chairs
13:50:45 <dom> ... the charter lists several target topics: data management, edge cloud computing, ...
13:51:01 <dom> ... there is a summary of the scope including identifying stakeholders, running surveys, etc
13:51:11 <dom> ... most important part is to work with stakeholders incl Web & Networks IG, WoT groups
13:51:26 <dom> ... and external SDOs incl IETF, ITU-T, ISO, etc
13:51:54 <dom> ... Your input is very welcome!
13:52:45 <dom> Sudeep: looking at the intersection between Smart Cities & Web & Networks IG: the charter mentions digital twins which is interesting
13:53:05 <dom> ... I see 3 angles: distributed compute, storage (which may need decentralized storage, with privacy implications),
13:53:28 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/Talks/0419-smartcities-ka/20240419-smartcities.pdf summary about smart cities discussion so far
13:53:38 <dom> ... the kind of data (consumer data, emergency, news, surveillance, video feeds, sensor data)
13:54:11 <McCool> q+
13:54:16 <dom> ... is the IG looking at decentralized storage? different levels of transmissions based on data types?
13:54:36 <kaz> q+
13:54:51 <dom> Mickael: the primary goal of the group is to gather use cases & requirements for smart cities, which will then help drive other work
13:55:17 <dom> Kaz: indeed; as an IG, we won't be developing standards, but gathering requirements, running surveys, developing landscapes of existing standards
13:55:48 <dom> ... There may be important use cases around the points you mentioned, but the group won't be looking at the details of the standardization for these use caess
13:56:15 <dom> Michael: re distributed storage - assuming this is moving compute closer to the cameras to avoid having transmitting/storing video in a central location
13:57:04 <dom> Kaz: once we have identified requriements, we would bring them to the attention of the relevant WGs
13:57:13 <dom> s/rie/ire/
13:58:06 <dom> Eric: trade is another huge area; Verifiable Credentials and DID have been used in that space, but with every country using different software/documentation
13:58:22 <dom> ... e.g. the US has one, Singapore has their own ("TradeTrust")
13:58:34 <dom> ... to get everyone to adopt the same system around the world will be complictaed
13:58:37 <dom> s/cta/cat/
13:58:48 <dom> ... having an API that wraps around these different systems would seem to be needed
13:59:03 <dom> ... there is an opportunity here for some kind of solution to pull all those systems together
13:59:51 <dom> ... I'm wondering if that aspect should be included in the Smart Cities IG charter? given the involvement of China, Japan, Singapore in that space
14:00:16 <dom> ... This would raise the odds of getting other Asian countries to follow, along with other stakeholders
14:00:22 <dom> Kaz: I completely agree
14:00:45 <dom> ... DID and VC have started to been used in the context of COVID, tax-cuts
14:00:56 <dom> ... we still need to think about mechanisms from other countries and regions
14:01:10 <dom> ... including their SDOs
14:01:17 <dom> ... to clarify how to integrate them one with another
14:03:39 <dom> Song: the IG isn't only focused on scenarios in the physical worlds, but also the mapping between virtual and physical
14:03:50 <dom> ... I look forward to do more research on this
14:04:01 <dom> Kaz: we hope to see the group launched in July
14:04:51 <dom> [Kaz departs]
14:04:55 <dom> Present+ Louay
14:05:10 <dom> Present+ ZoltanKis
14:06:14 <dom> Sudeep: please all look at the charter and identify which topics might benefit from coordination between the two groups!
14:06:34 <dom> Topic: Cloud-Edge-Client Coordination CG
14:06:47 <dom> -> https://github.com/w3c/web-networks/blob/main/proposals/cloudedgeclientCG/charter.md CG Charter proposal
14:07:32 <dom> Dapeng: [projecting the latest proposed version of the CG charter]
14:09:12 <dom> ... one of the motivations for this CG is to make it easier for non-Member stakeholders to join the conversation, with a specific focus on this topic as defined in the charter
14:09:54 <dom> ... we've built the charter from the CG charter template - some still needs to be improved
14:10:20 <dom> ... the CG would explore the use cases and standardization of Cloud/Edge/Coordination
14:10:37 <dom> ... we'll identify real use cases, develop gap analysis, explore solutions
14:11:13 <dom> ... e.g. APIs to enable offloading of computing workloads and orchestration of the various computing resources
14:13:43 <dom> Michael: this is a draft on which we will seeking further input
14:13:57 <dom> ... we want broad input on a narrowly focused problem
14:14:31 <dom> Dapeng: I think we're close to finalize the charter
14:14:55 <dom> Sudeep: Max, you're willing to serve as chair for that CG if it gets created?
14:14:58 <dom> Dapeng: indeed
14:15:31 <dom> ChrisN: the BBC has use cases we're interested to look at with this
14:16:16 <dom> ... the scope you've described is stuff the IG can already do; what's the motivation for a CG? is this for wider participation? or to allow look into specifications?
14:16:46 <dom> Dapeng: indeed, allowing more stakeholders to join the conversation
14:17:26 <dom> Chris: should clarify that incubation is in scope then
14:19:52 <dom> dom: +1 on clarifying on the fact that the CG would write specs (not standards)
14:20:09 <dom> ... I don't suggest waiting for IG consensus - instead, move forward as soon as you're happy enough with the charter
14:21:13 <dom> Juan: regarding the CG proposals, are you looking into creating new ones or evaluating/prototyping existing ones? e.g. a number of IETF work in the space of workload orchestration
14:22:54 <dom> Michael: +1 on clarifying the scope per feedback; after one more round of editing, it should be ready for proposing the CG
14:23:34 <dom> ... a point of data: in the WoT IG/WG, we have ~20 participants; in the CG, ~200-300 participants with lots of presentations
14:23:44 <dom> ... this shows the value to get wider input from stakeholders
14:24:48 <dom> Sudeep: a CG requires support from 5 people right?
14:25:00 <dom> Dom: yes - no need for them to be member, only have a W3C account
14:25:14 <dom> Sudeep: a future call to action for IG members
14:25:41 <dom> ... the scope of that CG has intersections also with Machine Learning, WoT
14:26:30 <dom> Sudeep: I think this idea should be presented at TPAC, ideally with a demo, maybe a breakout
14:27:21 <dom> Topic: SconePro @ IETF
14:27:27 <McCool> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/session/sconepro
14:27:45 <dom> DanD: there was BOF meeting in Brisbane with links to the relevant presentation
14:27:53 <dom> ... on secure communications on network properties
14:28:08 <dom> ... it wasn't a WG-forming BOF, mostly gathering more input on the idea
14:28:28 <dom> ... at the IETF meeting in Vancouver, there is a plan for WG-forming BOF on this subjet
14:28:29 <dom> s/subjet/subject/
14:29:03 <dom> ... this was proposed initially as an extension to QUIC to enable streaming clients to police their traffic to match operator policies
14:29:30 <dom> ... With adaptive bitrates, the bitrate gets adapted to network conditions, but there are other considerations that should be taken into account
14:30:02 <dom> ... e.g. some operators differentiate their offerings by creating different plans with restriction of how much bandwidth gets used
14:30:19 <dom> ... this is currently handled by rate limiting the traffic from various devices using DPI and other techniques
14:30:51 <dom> ... which works with adaptive bitrate, but also impact non-adaptive flows, creating performance & QoE issues
14:31:09 <dom> ... the proposal is for the network to signal the maximum bitrate that particular end user device subscription should be accepting
14:31:21 <dom> ... and then the client can cap that bitrate to match
14:31:31 <dom> ... self-policing for streaming clients
14:31:54 <dom> RRSAgent, make log public
14:32:55 <McCool> (sorry, ntd due to another mtg)
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14:47:41 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:47:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/26-web-networks-minutes.html dom
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