IRC log of web-networks on 2024-06-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/26-web-networks-irc
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Present+ Sudeep, ChrisN, JuanCabaleero, Kaz, MichaelMcCool, SongXu, DanD, Dapeng, Eric, Piers, Dom
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13:31:48 [dom]
Meeting: Web & Networks Interest Group Meeting
13:31:55 [dom]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-networks-ig/2024Jun/0000.html
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Chairs: Sudeep, DanD, SongXu
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Slideset: @@@
13:36:29 [dom]
Topic: Smart Cities & Networks IG
13:36:42 [dom]
Song: Thank you Kaz for joining us today to discuss Smart Cities
13:37:04 [dom]
... I would like to start by sharing China Mobile's perspective on Smart Cities and DIgital Twins
13:37:11 [dom]
Slideset: ###
13:37:17 [kaz]
i|Thank|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/06/smart-cities/ proposed Charter for the Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities IG|
13:37:26 [dom]
[slide 2]
13:38:22 [dom]
[slide 3]
13:41:01 [dom]
Song: our research has shown that e.g. surveillance cameras fed into vision recognition systems requires lots of bandwidth and storage in backend systems
13:41:21 [dom]
... which could be e.g. better handled at the device level
13:41:26 [dom]
[slide 4]
13:41:50 [dom]
Song: we use smart cities technologies to solve traffic problems in big cities
13:42:47 [dom]
... e.g. in one of the cities with more than 2M vehicles, 900K buses, with 50K routes with lots of crossing required
13:44:01 [dom]
... we can identify 3 levels of traffic in terms of how the vehicles on the road match the city capacity: low, intermediate, excess
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... these levels of traffic can be mapped to average vehicle speed (from 37km/h to stuck traffic)
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[slide 5]
13:44:54 [dom]
Song: in terms of use cases for the Web & Networks IG
13:45:34 [dom]
... looking back at the 3 categories of links needed in Smart Cities: transmission is the 2nd one, key to real-time monitoring
13:45:55 [dom]
... with video data accounting to 70%+ in these scenarios
13:46:28 [dom]
... efficient transmission of the effective features of these video streams are critical
13:48:28 [dom]
[slide 6]
13:50:30 [dom]
Kaz: There is a proposed charter for the Smart Cities IG under Advisory Committee review, recently completed with the names of the proposed chairs
13:50:45 [dom]
... the charter lists several target topics: data management, edge cloud computing, ...
13:51:01 [dom]
... there is a summary of the scope including identifying stakeholders, running surveys, etc
13:51:11 [dom]
... most important part is to work with stakeholders incl Web & Networks IG, WoT groups
13:51:26 [dom]
... and external SDOs incl IETF, ITU-T, ISO, etc
13:51:54 [dom]
... Your input is very welcome!
13:52:45 [dom]
Sudeep: looking at the intersection between Smart Cities & Web & Networks IG: the charter mentions digital twins which is interesting
13:53:05 [dom]
... I see 3 angles: distributed compute, storage (which may need decentralized storage, with privacy implications),
13:53:28 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2024/Talks/0419-smartcities-ka/20240419-smartcities.pdf summary about smart cities discussion so far
13:53:38 [dom]
... the kind of data (consumer data, emergency, news, surveillance, video feeds, sensor data)
13:54:11 [McCool]
q+
13:54:16 [dom]
... is the IG looking at decentralized storage? different levels of transmissions based on data types?
13:54:36 [kaz]
q+
13:54:51 [dom]
Mickael: the primary goal of the group is to gather use cases & requirements for smart cities, which will then help drive other work
13:55:17 [dom]
Kaz: indeed; as an IG, we won't be developing standards, but gathering requirements, running surveys, developing landscapes of existing standards
13:55:48 [dom]
... There may be important use cases around the points you mentioned, but the group won't be looking at the details of the standardization for these use caess
13:56:15 [dom]
Michael: re distributed storage - assuming this is moving compute closer to the cameras to avoid having transmitting/storing video in a central location
13:57:04 [dom]
Kaz: once we have identified requriements, we would bring them to the attention of the relevant WGs
13:57:13 [dom]
s/rie/ire/
13:58:06 [dom]
Eric: trade is another huge area; Verifiable Credentials and DID have been used in that space, but with every country using different software/documentation
13:58:22 [dom]
... e.g. the US has one, Singapore has their own ("TradeTrust")
13:58:34 [dom]
... to get everyone to adopt the same system around the world will be complictaed
13:58:37 [dom]
s/cta/cat/
13:58:48 [dom]
... having an API that wraps around these different systems would seem to be needed
13:59:03 [dom]
... there is an opportunity here for some kind of solution to pull all those systems together
13:59:51 [dom]
... I'm wondering if that aspect should be included in the Smart Cities IG charter? given the involvement of China, Japan, Singapore in that space
14:00:16 [dom]
... This would raise the odds of getting other Asian countries to follow, along with other stakeholders
14:00:22 [dom]
Kaz: I completely agree
14:00:45 [dom]
... DID and VC have started to been used in the context of COVID, tax-cuts
14:00:56 [dom]
... we still need to think about mechanisms from other countries and regions
14:01:10 [dom]
... including their SDOs
14:01:17 [dom]
... to clarify how to integrate them one with another
14:03:39 [dom]
Song: the IG isn't only focused on scenarios in the physical worlds, but also the mapping between virtual and physical
14:03:50 [dom]
... I look forward to do more research on this
14:04:01 [dom]
Kaz: we hope to see the group launched in July
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[Kaz departs]
14:04:55 [dom]
Present+ Louay
14:05:10 [dom]
Present+ ZoltanKis
14:06:14 [dom]
Sudeep: please all look at the charter and identify which topics might benefit from coordination between the two groups!
14:06:34 [dom]
Topic: Cloud-Edge-Client Coordination CG
14:06:47 [dom]
-> https://github.com/w3c/web-networks/blob/main/proposals/cloudedgeclientCG/charter.md CG Charter proposal
14:07:32 [dom]
Dapeng: [projecting the latest proposed version of the CG charter]
14:09:12 [dom]
... one of the motivations for this CG is to make it easier for non-Member stakeholders to join the conversation, with a specific focus on this topic as defined in the charter
14:09:54 [dom]
... we've built the charter from the CG charter template - some still needs to be improved
14:10:20 [dom]
... the CG would explore the use cases and standardization of Cloud/Edge/Coordination
14:10:37 [dom]
... we'll identify real use cases, develop gap analysis, explore solutions
14:11:13 [dom]
... e.g. APIs to enable offloading of computing workloads and orchestration of the various computing resources
14:13:43 [dom]
Michael: this is a draft on which we will seeking further input
14:13:57 [dom]
... we want broad input on a narrowly focused problem
14:14:31 [dom]
Dapeng: I think we're close to finalize the charter
14:14:55 [dom]
Sudeep: Max, you're willing to serve as chair for that CG if it gets created?
14:14:58 [dom]
Dapeng: indeed
14:15:31 [dom]
ChrisN: the BBC has use cases we're interested to look at with this
14:16:16 [dom]
... the scope you've described is stuff the IG can already do; what's the motivation for a CG? is this for wider participation? or to allow look into specifications?
14:16:46 [dom]
Dapeng: indeed, allowing more stakeholders to join the conversation
14:17:26 [dom]
Chris: should clarify that incubation is in scope then
14:19:52 [dom]
dom: +1 on clarifying on the fact that the CG would write specs (not standards)
14:20:09 [dom]
... I don't suggest waiting for IG consensus - instead, move forward as soon as you're happy enough with the charter
14:21:13 [dom]
Juan: regarding the CG proposals, are you looking into creating new ones or evaluating/prototyping existing ones? e.g. a number of IETF work in the space of workload orchestration
14:22:54 [dom]
Michael: +1 on clarifying the scope per feedback; after one more round of editing, it should be ready for proposing the CG
14:23:34 [dom]
... a point of data: in the WoT IG/WG, we have ~20 participants; in the CG, ~200-300 participants with lots of presentations
14:23:44 [dom]
... this shows the value to get wider input from stakeholders
14:24:48 [dom]
Sudeep: a CG requires support from 5 people right?
14:25:00 [dom]
Dom: yes - no need for them to be member, only have a W3C account
14:25:14 [dom]
Sudeep: a future call to action for IG members
14:25:41 [dom]
... the scope of that CG has intersections also with Machine Learning, WoT
14:26:30 [dom]
Sudeep: I think this idea should be presented at TPAC, ideally with a demo, maybe a breakout
14:27:21 [dom]
Topic: SconePro @ IETF
14:27:27 [McCool]
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/session/sconepro
14:27:45 [dom]
DanD: there was BOF meeting in Brisbane with links to the relevant presentation
14:27:53 [dom]
... on secure communications on network properties
14:28:08 [dom]
... it wasn't a WG-forming BOF, mostly gathering more input on the idea
14:28:28 [dom]
... at the IETF meeting in Vancouver, there is a plan for WG-forming BOF on this subjet
14:28:29 [dom]
s/subjet/subject/
14:29:03 [dom]
... this was proposed initially as an extension to QUIC to enable streaming clients to police their traffic to match operator policies
14:29:30 [dom]
... With adaptive bitrates, the bitrate gets adapted to network conditions, but there are other considerations that should be taken into account
14:30:02 [dom]
... e.g. some operators differentiate their offerings by creating different plans with restriction of how much bandwidth gets used
14:30:19 [dom]
... this is currently handled by rate limiting the traffic from various devices using DPI and other techniques
14:30:51 [dom]
... which works with adaptive bitrate, but also impact non-adaptive flows, creating performance & QoE issues
14:31:09 [dom]
... the proposal is for the network to signal the maximum bitrate that particular end user device subscription should be accepting
14:31:21 [dom]
... and then the client can cap that bitrate to match
14:31:31 [dom]
... self-policing for streaming clients
14:31:54 [dom]
RRSAgent, make log public
14:32:55 [McCool]
(sorry, ntd due to another mtg)
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RRSAgent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/26-web-networks-minutes.html dom
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