IRC log of web-networks on 2024-06-26
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/26-web-networks-irc
- 13:04:54 [Zakim]
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- 13:06:28 [sudeep]
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- 13:31:18 [dom]
- Present+ Sudeep, ChrisN, JuanCabaleero, Kaz, MichaelMcCool, SongXu, DanD, Dapeng, Eric, Piers, Dom
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- 13:31:48 [dom]
- Meeting: Web & Networks Interest Group Meeting
- 13:31:55 [dom]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-networks-ig/2024Jun/0000.html
- 13:32:01 [dom]
- Chairs: Sudeep, DanD, SongXu
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- Slideset: @@@
- 13:36:29 [dom]
- Topic: Smart Cities & Networks IG
- 13:36:42 [dom]
- Song: Thank you Kaz for joining us today to discuss Smart Cities
- 13:37:04 [dom]
- ... I would like to start by sharing China Mobile's perspective on Smart Cities and DIgital Twins
- 13:37:11 [dom]
- Slideset: ###
- 13:37:17 [kaz]
- i|Thank|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/06/smart-cities/ proposed Charter for the Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities IG|
- 13:37:26 [dom]
- [slide 2]
- 13:38:22 [dom]
- [slide 3]
- 13:41:01 [dom]
- Song: our research has shown that e.g. surveillance cameras fed into vision recognition systems requires lots of bandwidth and storage in backend systems
- 13:41:21 [dom]
- ... which could be e.g. better handled at the device level
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- [slide 4]
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- Song: we use smart cities technologies to solve traffic problems in big cities
- 13:42:47 [dom]
- ... e.g. in one of the cities with more than 2M vehicles, 900K buses, with 50K routes with lots of crossing required
- 13:44:01 [dom]
- ... we can identify 3 levels of traffic in terms of how the vehicles on the road match the city capacity: low, intermediate, excess
- 13:44:42 [dom]
- ... these levels of traffic can be mapped to average vehicle speed (from 37km/h to stuck traffic)
- 13:44:44 [dom]
- [slide 5]
- 13:44:54 [dom]
- Song: in terms of use cases for the Web & Networks IG
- 13:45:34 [dom]
- ... looking back at the 3 categories of links needed in Smart Cities: transmission is the 2nd one, key to real-time monitoring
- 13:45:55 [dom]
- ... with video data accounting to 70%+ in these scenarios
- 13:46:28 [dom]
- ... efficient transmission of the effective features of these video streams are critical
- 13:48:28 [dom]
- [slide 6]
- 13:50:30 [dom]
- Kaz: There is a proposed charter for the Smart Cities IG under Advisory Committee review, recently completed with the names of the proposed chairs
- 13:50:45 [dom]
- ... the charter lists several target topics: data management, edge cloud computing, ...
- 13:51:01 [dom]
- ... there is a summary of the scope including identifying stakeholders, running surveys, etc
- 13:51:11 [dom]
- ... most important part is to work with stakeholders incl Web & Networks IG, WoT groups
- 13:51:26 [dom]
- ... and external SDOs incl IETF, ITU-T, ISO, etc
- 13:51:54 [dom]
- ... Your input is very welcome!
- 13:52:45 [dom]
- Sudeep: looking at the intersection between Smart Cities & Web & Networks IG: the charter mentions digital twins which is interesting
- 13:53:05 [dom]
- ... I see 3 angles: distributed compute, storage (which may need decentralized storage, with privacy implications),
- 13:53:28 [kaz]
- -> https://www.w3.org/2024/Talks/0419-smartcities-ka/20240419-smartcities.pdf summary about smart cities discussion so far
- 13:53:38 [dom]
- ... the kind of data (consumer data, emergency, news, surveillance, video feeds, sensor data)
- 13:54:11 [McCool]
- q+
- 13:54:16 [dom]
- ... is the IG looking at decentralized storage? different levels of transmissions based on data types?
- 13:54:36 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:54:51 [dom]
- Mickael: the primary goal of the group is to gather use cases & requirements for smart cities, which will then help drive other work
- 13:55:17 [dom]
- Kaz: indeed; as an IG, we won't be developing standards, but gathering requirements, running surveys, developing landscapes of existing standards
- 13:55:48 [dom]
- ... There may be important use cases around the points you mentioned, but the group won't be looking at the details of the standardization for these use caess
- 13:56:15 [dom]
- Michael: re distributed storage - assuming this is moving compute closer to the cameras to avoid having transmitting/storing video in a central location
- 13:57:04 [dom]
- Kaz: once we have identified requriements, we would bring them to the attention of the relevant WGs
- 13:57:13 [dom]
- s/rie/ire/
- 13:58:06 [dom]
- Eric: trade is another huge area; Verifiable Credentials and DID have been used in that space, but with every country using different software/documentation
- 13:58:22 [dom]
- ... e.g. the US has one, Singapore has their own ("TradeTrust")
- 13:58:34 [dom]
- ... to get everyone to adopt the same system around the world will be complictaed
- 13:58:37 [dom]
- s/cta/cat/
- 13:58:48 [dom]
- ... having an API that wraps around these different systems would seem to be needed
- 13:59:03 [dom]
- ... there is an opportunity here for some kind of solution to pull all those systems together
- 13:59:51 [dom]
- ... I'm wondering if that aspect should be included in the Smart Cities IG charter? given the involvement of China, Japan, Singapore in that space
- 14:00:16 [dom]
- ... This would raise the odds of getting other Asian countries to follow, along with other stakeholders
- 14:00:22 [dom]
- Kaz: I completely agree
- 14:00:45 [dom]
- ... DID and VC have started to been used in the context of COVID, tax-cuts
- 14:00:56 [dom]
- ... we still need to think about mechanisms from other countries and regions
- 14:01:10 [dom]
- ... including their SDOs
- 14:01:17 [dom]
- ... to clarify how to integrate them one with another
- 14:03:39 [dom]
- Song: the IG isn't only focused on scenarios in the physical worlds, but also the mapping between virtual and physical
- 14:03:50 [dom]
- ... I look forward to do more research on this
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- Kaz: we hope to see the group launched in July
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- [Kaz departs]
- 14:04:55 [dom]
- Present+ Louay
- 14:05:10 [dom]
- Present+ ZoltanKis
- 14:06:14 [dom]
- Sudeep: please all look at the charter and identify which topics might benefit from coordination between the two groups!
- 14:06:34 [dom]
- Topic: Cloud-Edge-Client Coordination CG
- 14:06:47 [dom]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/web-networks/blob/main/proposals/cloudedgeclientCG/charter.md CG Charter proposal
- 14:07:32 [dom]
- Dapeng: [projecting the latest proposed version of the CG charter]
- 14:09:12 [dom]
- ... one of the motivations for this CG is to make it easier for non-Member stakeholders to join the conversation, with a specific focus on this topic as defined in the charter
- 14:09:54 [dom]
- ... we've built the charter from the CG charter template - some still needs to be improved
- 14:10:20 [dom]
- ... the CG would explore the use cases and standardization of Cloud/Edge/Coordination
- 14:10:37 [dom]
- ... we'll identify real use cases, develop gap analysis, explore solutions
- 14:11:13 [dom]
- ... e.g. APIs to enable offloading of computing workloads and orchestration of the various computing resources
- 14:13:43 [dom]
- Michael: this is a draft on which we will seeking further input
- 14:13:57 [dom]
- ... we want broad input on a narrowly focused problem
- 14:14:31 [dom]
- Dapeng: I think we're close to finalize the charter
- 14:14:55 [dom]
- Sudeep: Max, you're willing to serve as chair for that CG if it gets created?
- 14:14:58 [dom]
- Dapeng: indeed
- 14:15:31 [dom]
- ChrisN: the BBC has use cases we're interested to look at with this
- 14:16:16 [dom]
- ... the scope you've described is stuff the IG can already do; what's the motivation for a CG? is this for wider participation? or to allow look into specifications?
- 14:16:46 [dom]
- Dapeng: indeed, allowing more stakeholders to join the conversation
- 14:17:26 [dom]
- Chris: should clarify that incubation is in scope then
- 14:19:52 [dom]
- dom: +1 on clarifying on the fact that the CG would write specs (not standards)
- 14:20:09 [dom]
- ... I don't suggest waiting for IG consensus - instead, move forward as soon as you're happy enough with the charter
- 14:21:13 [dom]
- Juan: regarding the CG proposals, are you looking into creating new ones or evaluating/prototyping existing ones? e.g. a number of IETF work in the space of workload orchestration
- 14:22:54 [dom]
- Michael: +1 on clarifying the scope per feedback; after one more round of editing, it should be ready for proposing the CG
- 14:23:34 [dom]
- ... a point of data: in the WoT IG/WG, we have ~20 participants; in the CG, ~200-300 participants with lots of presentations
- 14:23:44 [dom]
- ... this shows the value to get wider input from stakeholders
- 14:24:48 [dom]
- Sudeep: a CG requires support from 5 people right?
- 14:25:00 [dom]
- Dom: yes - no need for them to be member, only have a W3C account
- 14:25:14 [dom]
- Sudeep: a future call to action for IG members
- 14:25:41 [dom]
- ... the scope of that CG has intersections also with Machine Learning, WoT
- 14:26:30 [dom]
- Sudeep: I think this idea should be presented at TPAC, ideally with a demo, maybe a breakout
- 14:27:21 [dom]
- Topic: SconePro @ IETF
- 14:27:27 [McCool]
- https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/session/sconepro
- 14:27:45 [dom]
- DanD: there was BOF meeting in Brisbane with links to the relevant presentation
- 14:27:53 [dom]
- ... on secure communications on network properties
- 14:28:08 [dom]
- ... it wasn't a WG-forming BOF, mostly gathering more input on the idea
- 14:28:28 [dom]
- ... at the IETF meeting in Vancouver, there is a plan for WG-forming BOF on this subjet
- 14:28:29 [dom]
- s/subjet/subject/
- 14:29:03 [dom]
- ... this was proposed initially as an extension to QUIC to enable streaming clients to police their traffic to match operator policies
- 14:29:30 [dom]
- ... With adaptive bitrates, the bitrate gets adapted to network conditions, but there are other considerations that should be taken into account
- 14:30:02 [dom]
- ... e.g. some operators differentiate their offerings by creating different plans with restriction of how much bandwidth gets used
- 14:30:19 [dom]
- ... this is currently handled by rate limiting the traffic from various devices using DPI and other techniques
- 14:30:51 [dom]
- ... which works with adaptive bitrate, but also impact non-adaptive flows, creating performance & QoE issues
- 14:31:09 [dom]
- ... the proposal is for the network to signal the maximum bitrate that particular end user device subscription should be accepting
- 14:31:21 [dom]
- ... and then the client can cap that bitrate to match
- 14:31:31 [dom]
- ... self-policing for streaming clients
- 14:31:54 [dom]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 14:32:55 [McCool]
- (sorry, ntd due to another mtg)
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- RRSAgent, draft minutes
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- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/26-web-networks-minutes.html dom
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