W3C

– DRAFT –
MATF June 26, 2024

26 June 2024

Attendees

Present
Aashutosh, gleidsonramos, Illai, Jamie, JJ, Joe_Humbert, julianmka, Mick, RacheleD, ToriClarkA11y
Regrets
Audrey, Devanshu, Karla, Rachael
Chair
-
Scribe
julianmka

Meeting minutes

Github

<JJ> JJ: Illai Zeevi introducing himself (first meeting), talks about the initiative of Evinced for MCAG and the MATF - https://getevinced.github.io/mcag/

<JJ> Joe: added comment on 1.3.5 input purpose: w3c/matf#2 (comment)

Joe: Mixed support for autofill data in Android. Will do further testing on other devices, other keyboard types, etc. More in Github.

Another comment from Alain on 3.1.2 Language of Parts

<Joe_Humbert> great about the ticket for language of the parts from Alain

Illai: Language definition about language in mobile platforms is on the app level. Cannot change the lang code for a specific view. This is impossible technically.

<JJ> JJ: issue in Gitlab about Language of Parts: w3c/matf#15 (comment) + https://labs.etsi.org/rep/HF/en301549/-/issues/261

JJ: Comment from Jamie about 1.4.4 -- WCAG2ICT use of "Closed functionality". Perhaps this definition might be useful for our work.

JJ: Comments on #11 Definition of Web pages and proposed definition of Views in WCAG 3 that might be useful.

JJ: I have created new issues in Github for the 4 SCs on today's agenda.

<JJ> WCAG issue for sets of software definition: w3c/matf#11 (comment)

Joe_Humbert: Hopefully WCAG 3 work is taking some of our conversations into account

JJ: We as a Task Force can use our own definitions. We may have different definitions from WCAG2ICT, but need to find out how much latitude we have.

<JJ> Resize Text update about Closed Functionality: w3c/matf#3

JJ: WCAG2ICT has been recognized more broadly, we hope that MATF can influence some changes in future.

1.2.3 Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded) - Level A

JJ: WCAG2ICT states that 1.2.3 applies directly as written. Some notes clarify other terms that might be used to audio descriptions. Interesting that "closed functionality" comes into play.

<JJ> julianmka: we would produce two versions of the video, one without audio description and one with

ToriClarkA11y: When I worked with video, we ran into issues between different mobile browsers and Android that didn't support additional tracks.

ToriClarkA11y: Now looking at VideoJS which seems promising.

ToriClarkA11y: Worried about closed functionailty when we cannot guarantee that functions are available.

Joe_Humbert: Do we know which video players support audio descriptions?

Joe_Humbert: Android 13+ supports audio descriptions (AD) or at least there's a toggle. iOS video player supports AD.

JJ: Android Media Player doesn't support AD but Exo Player does. Would be interesting to look at other players, especially ones that handle live streaming.

<ToriClarkA11y> we built off of this at Airbnb IIRC: https://videojs.com/

JJ: Add an issue to Github to discuss video player options.

ToriClarkA11y: Because of internationalization needs, we only supported level A and used enhanced descriptive transcripts.

ToriClarkA11y: Lots of people only provide a basic transcript that doesn't include visual descriptions.

JJ: We could add supporting material about how to do transcripts well.

gleidsonramos: We tried to use YouTube player for transcripts but the mobile embed doesn't include transcripts. Our alternative is to give a mobile button and opens a view with transcript.

JJ: Web view with an accessible video player could be a good solution for this, using an accessible media player. Benefits of this might outweigh the drawbacks of using a web view.

1.2.5 Audio Description (Prerecorded) - Level AA

JJ: WCAG2ICT does not include a note about closed functionality, but otherwise same interpretation.

ToriClarkA11y: In US, WCAG and ADA are not 1:1. Example, ADA may require extended AD while that would be AAA conformance.

JJ: Highlighting difference between AD and extended AD.

ToriClarkA11y: I've seen some players attempt the pause functionality to support extended AD but haven't seen them work reliably. Player support isn't there yet.

<ToriClarkA11y> just different tech approach, so I wanted to acknowledge it.

1.3.2 Meaningful Sequence - Level A

JJ: Focus should follow a specific order to understand the screen properly. Mobile platforms allow us to modify focus order.

<JJ> julianmka: We have worked with teams where we modify the focus order, but try not to and achieve it by grouping etc.

julianmka: MATF could provide supplementary documentation about mobile-specific techniques like grouping

Joe_Humbert: Similar experience as Julian. Reading/focus order on mobile blend together a bit. Using Accessibility elements on iOS can be problematic with dynamically loading content.

JJ: Same experience with accessibility element in iOS. Android lets you set traversal order.

Aashutosh: Success story: Worked on app where home screen focus order was modified.

Aashutosh: Designers should indicate the intended sequence so that developers don't have to infer it.

+1 to that, Aashutosh

<Joe_Humbert> yes +1

<Jamie> +1 to Aashutosh

JJ: Android floating action button (FAB) could be a good use case for manipulating focus order

Illai: MCAG project recommends grouping to help ensure meaningful sequence.

Creating guidance

JJ: How to handle creating guidance in Github? Each SC has an issue and a markdown file currently.

Joe_Humbert: In SC markdown docs, start with WCAG2ICT language and modify from there to create drafts.

Joe_Humbert: Perhaps draft a template for guidance -- what should each document include?

<JJ> Sorry Jamie! You are next

Mick: Agrees with Joe

<Joe_Humbert> +1 to time vote

<JJ> Jamie: start with the existing draft: https://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-accessibility-mapping/

<Joe_Humbert> +1 for acceleration and potentially more meetings

<JJ> 2018 updated draft: https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/

JJ: 2018 editor's draft is already approved on some level.

<ToriClarkA11y> +1 to Joe's recommendation

Joe_Humbert: Everyone review 2018 editor's draft and set up an issue to discuss

<Jamie> +1 to reviewing editor's draft

+1 to reviewing editor's draft

<JJ> Sorry, seems like Zoom auto-closed on us

<Joe_Humbert> I goty cut off lol

<Jamie> +1 to breaking off into smaller group meetings

Comment I intended to give: Let's create Github issues for the non-SC topics we've talked about covering like grouping, what makes a good transcript, etc.

<JJ> If you have further thoughts please share here!

<Jamie> +1 to julian

<Joe_Humbert> +1 to Julian's idea

+1 to Jamie's comment about smaller groups

<Jamie> +1 to all th things :P

<JJ> Thanks all!

<JJ> what conference is this?

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/mixed/Mixed

Maybe present: Joe

All speakers: Aashutosh, gleidsonramos, Illai, JJ, Joe, Joe_Humbert, julianmka, Mick, ToriClarkA11y

Active on IRC: Aashutosh, gleidsonramos, Illai, Jamie, JJ, Joe_Humbert, julianmka, Mick, RacheleD, ToriClarkA11y