12:56:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #matf
12:56:26 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/26-matf-irc
12:56:26 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:56:27 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ
12:56:37 <JJ> Zakim, this is MATF June 26, 2024
12:56:37 <Zakim> got it, JJ
12:56:46 <JJ> present+
12:57:14 <JJ> regrets+ Karla
12:57:22 <JJ> regrets+ Audrey
12:57:29 <JJ> regrets+ Devanshu
12:57:33 <JJ> regrets+ Rachael
12:58:38 <Joe_Humbert> present+
12:59:26 <JJ> agenda+ Github
12:59:29 <julianmka> present+
12:59:34 <JJ> agenda+ 1.2.3 Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded) - Level A
12:59:40 <JJ> agenda+ 1.2.5 Audio Description (Prerecorded) - Level AA
12:59:44 <JJ> agenda+ 1.3.2 Meaningful Sequence - Level A
12:59:49 <JJ> agenda+ 1.3.3 Sensory Characteristics - Level A
12:59:56 <JJ> zakim, agenda?
12:59:56 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
12:59:57 <Zakim> 1. Github [from JJ]
12:59:57 <Zakim> 2. 1.2.3 Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded) - Level A [from JJ]
12:59:57 <Zakim> 3. 1.2.5 Audio Description (Prerecorded) - Level AA [from JJ]
12:59:57 <Zakim> 4. 1.3.2 Meaningful Sequence - Level A [from JJ]
12:59:57 <Zakim> 5. 1.3.3 Sensory Characteristics - Level A [from JJ]
13:00:04 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:00:04 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Github -- taken up [from JJ]
13:01:35 <gleidsonramos> gleidsonramos has joined #matf
13:02:24 <RacheleD> RacheleD has joined #MATF
13:02:31 <RacheleD> present +
13:02:33 <JJ> JJ: Illai Zeevi introducing himself (first meeting), talks about the initiative of Evinced for MCAG and the MATF - https://getevinced.github.io/mcag/
13:03:26 <JJ> Scribe: julianmka
13:03:44 <ToriClarkA11y> ToriClarkA11y has joined #matf
13:03:44 <Mick> Mick has joined #MATF
13:03:58 <Mick> present+
13:04:00 <Illai> Illai has joined #matf
13:04:24 <RacheleD> present+
13:05:56 <JJ> Joe: added comment on 1.3.5 input purpose: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/2#issuecomment-2191600025
13:06:51 <julianmka> Joe: mixed support for autofill data in Android. Will do further testing on other devices, other keyboard types, etc. More in Github.
13:07:03 <julianmka> s/mixed/Mixed
13:07:55 <julianmka> Another comment from Alain on 3.1.2 Language of Parts
13:08:02 <Joe_Humbert> great about the ticket for language of the parts from Alain
13:08:49 <julianmka> Illai: Language definition about language in mobile platforms is on the app level. Cannot change the lang code for a specific view. This is impossible technically.
13:09:20 <JJ> JJ: issue in Gitlab about Language of Parts: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/15#issuecomment-2178621977 + https://labs.etsi.org/rep/HF/en301549/-/issues/261
13:09:29 <Aashutosh> Aashutosh has joined #matf
13:10:49 <julianmka> JJ: Comment from Jamie about 1.4.4 -- WCAG2ICT use of "Closed functionality". Perhaps this definition might be useful for our work.
13:12:33 <julianmka> JJ: Comments on #11 Definition of Web pages and proposed definition of Views in WCAG 3 that might be useful.
13:13:06 <Jamie> Jamie has joined #matf
13:13:14 <Jamie> present+
13:13:59 <Joe_Humbert> q+
13:14:25 <julianmka> JJ: I have created new issues in Github for the 4 SCs on today's agenda.
13:14:32 <julianmka> ack Joe_Humbert
13:14:49 <JJ> WCAG issue for sets of software definition: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/11#issuecomment-2190031586
13:15:02 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Hopefully WCAG 3 work is taking some of our conversations into account
13:15:49 <julianmka> JJ: We as a Task Force can use our own definitions. We may have different definitions from WCAG2ICT, but need to find out how much latitude we have.
13:16:04 <JJ> Resize Text update about Closed Functionality: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/3
13:17:16 <julianmka> JJ: WCAG2ICT has been recognized more broadly, we hope that MATF can influence some changes in future.
13:17:58 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:17:58 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- 1.2.3 Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded) - Level A -- taken up [from JJ]
13:19:21 <julianmka> JJ: WCAG2ICT states that 1.2.3 applies directly as written. Some notes clarify other terms that might be used to audio descriptions. Interesting that "closed functionality" comes into play.
13:20:12 <julianmka> q+
13:20:22 <JJ> ack julianmka
13:20:25 <julianmka> ack julianmka
13:20:25 <ToriClarkA11y> q+
13:20:28 <Aashutosh> present+
13:20:54 <JJ> julianmka: we would produce two versions of the video, one without audio description and one with
13:21:41 <Joe_Humbert> q+
13:21:50 <julianmka> ack ToriClarkA11y
13:22:40 <julianmka> ToriClarkA11y: When I worked with video, we ran into issues between different mobile browsers and Android that didn't support additional tracks.
13:22:56 <julianmka> ToriClarkA11y: Now looking at VideoJS which seems promising.
13:23:25 <julianmka> ToriClarkA11y: Worried about closed functionailty when we cannot guarantee that functions are available.
13:23:35 <julianmka> ack Joe_Humbert
13:23:49 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Do we know which video players support audio descriptions?
13:24:34 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Android 13+ supports audio descriptions (AD) or at least there's a toggle. iOS video player supports AD.
13:25:33 <julianmka> JJ: Android Media Player doesn't support AD but Exo Player does. Would be interesting to look at other players, especially ones that handle live streaming.
13:25:42 <ToriClarkA11y> we built off of this at Airbnb IIRC: https://videojs.com/
13:26:00 <julianmka> JJ: Add an issue to Github to discuss video player options.
13:26:56 <ToriClarkA11y> q+
13:26:59 <gleidsonramos> q+
13:27:04 <JJ> ack ToriClarkA11y
13:27:47 <JJ> present+ Illai
13:28:07 <julianmka> ToriClarkA11y: Because of internationalization needs, we only supported level A and used enhanced descriptive transcripts.
13:28:15 <Aashutosh> Aashutosh has joined #matf
13:28:44 <julianmka> ToriClarkA11y: Lots of people only provide a basic transcript that doesn't include visual descriptions.
13:29:02 <julianmka> JJ: We could add supporting material about how to do transcripts well.
13:29:04 <JJ> ack gleidsonramos
13:30:04 <julianmka> gleidsonramos: We tried to use YouTube player for transcripts but the mobile embed doesn't include transcripts. Our alternative is to give a mobile button and opens a view with transcript.
13:31:19 <julianmka> JJ: Web view with an accessible video player could be a good solution for this, using an accessible media player. Benefits of this might outweigh the drawbacks of using a web view.
13:31:40 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:31:40 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- 1.2.5 Audio Description (Prerecorded) - Level AA -- taken up [from JJ]
13:33:57 <julianmka> JJ: WCAG2ICT does not include a note about closed functionality, but otherwise same interpretation.
13:34:00 <ToriClarkA11y> q+
13:34:06 <julianmka> ack ToriClarkA11y
13:34:56 <Jamie> Jamie has joined #matf
13:35:12 <Jamie> q+
13:35:29 <julianmka> ToriClarkA11y: In US, WCAG and ADA are not 1:1. Example, ADA may require extended AD while that would be AAA conformance.
13:36:49 <julianmka> JJ: Highlighting difference between AD and extended AD.
13:38:12 <julianmka> ToriClarkA11y: I've seen some players attempt the pause functionality to support extended AD but haven't seen them work reliably. Player support isn't there yet.
13:38:59 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:38:59 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JJ
13:39:03 <julianmka> q?
13:39:06 <julianmka> ack Jamie
13:39:37 <ToriClarkA11y> just different tech approach, so I wanted to acknowledge it.
13:39:39 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:39:39 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- 1.3.2 Meaningful Sequence - Level A -- taken up [from JJ]
13:40:56 <julianmka> JJ: Focus should follow a specific order to understand the screen properly. Mobile platforms allow us to modify focus order.
13:40:59 <julianmka> q+
13:41:05 <Joe_Humbert> q+
13:41:06 <Aashutosh> q+
13:41:07 <Illai> q+
13:41:10 <JJ> ack julianmka
13:41:47 <JJ> julianmka: We have worked with teams where we modify the focus order, but try not to and achieve it by grouping etc.
13:43:49 <JJ> ack Joe_Humbert
13:43:56 <julianmka> julianmka: MATF could provide supplementary documentation about mobile-specific techniques like grouping
13:45:09 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Similar experience as Julian. Reading/focus order on mobile blend together a bit. Using Accessibility elements on iOS can be problematic with dynamically loading content.
13:45:57 <julianmka> JJ: Same experience with accessibility element in iOS. Android lets you set traversal order.
13:46:17 <JJ> ack Aashutosh
13:46:17 <julianmka> ack Aashutosh
13:47:31 <julianmka> Aashutosh: Success story: Worked on app where home screen focus order was modified.
13:48:00 <julianmka> Aashutosh: Designers should indicate the intended sequence so that developers don't have to infer it.
13:48:13 <julianmka> +1 to that, Aashutosh
13:48:27 <Joe_Humbert> yes +1
13:48:52 <Jamie> +1 to Aashutosh
13:49:14 <JJ> ack Illai
13:49:14 <julianmka> JJ: Android floating action button (FAB) could be a good use case for manipulating focus order
13:50:21 <JJ> Zakim, agenda?
13:50:21 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
13:50:22 <Zakim> 4. 1.3.2 Meaningful Sequence - Level A [from JJ]
13:50:22 <Zakim> 5. 1.3.3 Sensory Characteristics - Level A [from JJ]
13:50:29 <JJ> agenda- 5
13:50:37 <julianmka> Illai: MCAG project recommends grouping to help ensure meaningful sequence.
13:51:02 <JJ> agenda+ Creating guidance
13:51:08 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:51:08 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Creating guidance -- taken up [from JJ]
13:51:45 <Joe_Humbert> q+
13:52:21 <Jamie> q+
13:52:48 <julianmka> JJ: How to handle creating guidance in Github? Each SC has an issue and a markdown file currently.
13:52:51 <julianmka> ack Joe_Humbert
13:52:51 <JJ> ack Joe_Humbert
13:52:56 <Mick> q+
13:53:42 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: In SC markdown docs, start with WCAG2ICT language and modify from there to create drafts.
13:54:05 <julianmka> q+
13:55:13 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Perhaps draft a template for guidance -- what should each document include?
13:55:20 <julianmka> ack Jamie
13:55:37 <JJ> Sorry Jamie! You are next
13:55:38 <julianmka> ack Mick
13:56:07 <julianmka> Mick: Agrees with Joe
13:56:18 <Joe_Humbert> +1 to time vote
13:57:07 <JJ> Jamie: start with the existing draft: https://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-accessibility-mapping/
13:57:43 <Joe_Humbert> +1 for acceleration and potentially more meetings
13:57:56 <JJ> 2018 updated draft: https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/
13:58:34 <Joe_Humbert> q+
13:58:50 <JJ> ack julianmka
13:58:54 <julianmka> JJ: 2018 editor's draft is already approved on some level.
13:59:45 <julianmka> ack Joe_Humbert
14:00:08 <ToriClarkA11y> +1 to Joe's recommendation
14:00:10 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Everyone review 2018 editor's draft and set up an issue to discuss
14:00:12 <Jamie> +1 to reviewing editor's draft
14:00:31 <julianmka> +1 to reviewing editor's draft
14:00:35 <julianmka> q+
14:01:34 <JJ> Sorry, seems like Zoom auto-closed on us
14:01:35 <Joe_Humbert> I goty cut off lol
14:01:58 <Jamie> +1 to breaking off into smaller group meetings
14:02:01 <julianmka> Comment I intended to give: Let's create Github issues for the non-SC topics we've talked about covering like grouping, what makes a good transcript, etc.
14:02:14 <JJ> If you have further thoughts please share here!
14:02:16 <Jamie> +1 to julian
14:02:17 <Joe_Humbert> +1 to Julian's idea
14:02:29 <julianmka> +1 to Jamie's comment about smaller groups
14:03:06 <Jamie> +1 to all th things :P
14:04:17 <JJ> Thanks all!
14:04:37 <JJ> Zakim, list participants
14:04:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been JJ, Joe_Humbert, julianmka, Mick, RacheleD, Jamie, Aashutosh, Illai
14:04:59 <JJ> present+ gleidsonramos
14:05:20 <JJ> present+ ToriClarkA11y
14:07:22 <JJ> rrsagent, make minutes
14:07:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/26-matf-minutes.html JJ
14:09:11 <JJ> what conference is this?
14:09:21 <JJ> Zakim, what conference is this?
14:09:21 <Zakim> I have been told this is MATF June 26, 2024
14:10:02 <JJ> Meeting: MATF June 26, 2024
14:10:07 <JJ> rrsagent, make minutes
14:10:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/26-matf-minutes.html JJ
14:50:05 <JJ> JJ has joined #matf
14:50:08 <JJ> rrsagent, bye
14:50:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items