<JMcSorley> Meeting: COGA Internationalization Subgroup Teleconference

<JMcSorley> feedback.

audio, one sec

<julierawe> I can scribe

scribe+ Chuck

<julierawe> ha, chuck beat me to it!

JMcSorley: Modified Rachael's spreadsheet.

There are headings that reflect current structure of WCAG 3 with respect to outcomes.

There are some comments in there.

JMcSorley: I think those were made by Julie.
... This was the structure I modified to help members of the internationalization group.
... <reviews template>
... We are asking them to read the description in column a, decide if the line item needs internationalization attention, or if its fine.
... We hope to see some patterns on what is in need of internationalization work.
... Then we can start addressing the need for guidance back to AG.
... What I'd like to do today is identify where the community group should target first.
... I made them aware of the process, informed them we are meeting with sub-group (today).
... Lot's of outcomes here. We may not have all the background, nor do we know which ones AG may think there's internationalization concerns.
... Which outcomes do we need to have the community group work on first?

Julierawe: 2 things. First - the process of getting feedback from community group members. Why separate copies, and individually, as opposed to adding columns to one spreadsheet? It's happening in silo.

JMcSorley: We discussed as a community group, the consensus was that people wanted to have their own tab and provide feedback on their own time.
... Just cleaner with less horizontal scroll. People can own their own comments. We did talk about doing as a group. We will probably spend time as a group. But individuals want time to review on their own.

Julierawe: For prioritizing, I went through Rachael's version, and flagged several outcomes. Most in text and wording (nearly all), will need internationalization discussion. There's quite a few in ... the section that has white spacing.

JMcSorley: I'm going to scroll to the location.
... Comments on rows 43 and 45.

Julierawe: There's some sections of WCAG3 where we know internationalization is needed. Maybe tell them to focus on text and wording first. A lot of this comes from making content usable, but some came from another sub group Jeanne's been leading.
... We can say we already know nearly all of text and wording needs internationalization review. Very likely that other topics need same review. People have nothing else to go on except for the one sentence descriptions. It's challenging. Wide range of outcomes.

John Kirkwood: Big +1 on the challenge.

Julierawe: We can say we already know some of the focus areas. These are in the beginning stages, and there's not much to look at right now.

<kirkwood> had a difficult time with the short description to make a decision

Julierawe: Trying to reduce panic would be good. Going ahead and filling those in already would be helpful in reducing anxiety.

<kirkwood> can we link to the deeper info?

JMcSorley: I appreciate you sending that note Julie, I passed that along. It was helpful to go to the document to understand the structure.
... It's helpful to know the overall general organization and to understand the state its in.
... I added a notes colum so individuals could add thoughts if they desired.
... Hopefully when we get feedback we can collect the notes by section and have everybody's comparison in a cumulative tab and find consensus.
... We do need a mechanism to guide the work to help individuals not be overwhelmed.
... Any other whole sections in addition to text and wording?

Julierawe: Prioritize text and wording for certain.
... The rest is covering a wide range, it might be nice to focus people on language intensive parts right away, and then get to other things later.
... the other section is the one that contains whitespace.

<kirkwood> What about image and media alternatives?

Julierawe: In layout section, that is the second set of outcomes? Second bucket? It does involve things that might raise questions.
... There's also familiar components and layouts. Is a component familiar in every country and dialect?

<kirkwood> +1 components

JMcSorley: 3rd user controls, 4th help and feedback.

Julierawe: taking in buckets and focusing on buckets will be far more manageable.

JMcSorley: That's what I was going to do for this exercise.

John Kirkwood: What about image and media alternatives?

JMcSorley: Yes!

Julierawe: One of those outcomes has captions in preferred language. Is that available? That's another good one.

John Kirkwood: And symbols in other languages.

Julierawe: Another important context, if anybody has been attending AG meetings and listening in on text alternatives, and how much thought has gone into coming up with a decision tree, how to describe decorative images.
... It's fascinating how much thought has gone into one outcome. So much work is needed to flesh out the others.
... We need to emphasize that we are at the early stages.
... There's lots of time for internationalization folks to weigh in.
... I mentioned the example of image alternatives to note how much thought has gone into developing the outcome. Every week there's big questions. I think we can re-assure people that there's lots of time, and we expect there is opportunity to review and develop.

JMcSorley: What I have down is text and wording is priority, I would like to have a vote on priorities. Layout, images and media, user control, help and feedback, those are the 5 that have been discussed and have comments. Any thoughts on order?

Text and wording, layout, images and media, user control, help and feedback

Julierawe: I agree with order. It's a good order.

<kirkwood> i would put image and media alternatives higher in list

Julierawe: Next step in devloping WCAG3 would be new subgroups starting in July. It's a small number, the idea that ... so far AG has been working on 2 outcomes, image alternatives and maybe focus control? We have pretty well developed outcomes that can be used as a model.
... If people want to jump in, they are starting up next month. If folks want to join, now is the time. They can get involved now if they choose, or wait and review the results if that's more comfortable.

JMcSorley: Image and media alternatives higher in the list? Where would you like it to be in the order?
... It's 3rd.
... Right in the middle.

John Kirkwood: Not certain about layout. I think that image alternatives may be higher. Where we have a symbol that indicates danger or some criticality. Other cultures may have other symbols. That aspect.

John Kirkwood: where understanding of a non text symbol is critical. Maybe higher in the list.

JMcSorley: OK, any other thoughts?

Julierawe: +1

<tburtin> +1

JMcSorley: <list in order>

<julierawe> +1

<Frankie> +1

<JMcSorley> Order: Text & Wording, Image & Media Alternatives, Layout, User Control, Help & Feedback

<JMcSorley> +1

<julierawe> +1

<tburtin> +1

<kirkwood> +1

<Frankie> +1

JMcSorley: That's really helpful, I'll get that communication out today.
... Good for next meeting 3rd of July.
... Looking at Lisa's draft.

<julierawe> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/subgroups-june-24/

Julierawe: Jan you mentioned that you would reach out to community group, July 3rd. Here's link to new subgroup survey.

JMcSorley: Closes July 8th. New subgroups would start end of July. Maybe share this survey? One of these subgroups may be good for internationalization representation.

Julierawe: This survey will close soon after your next community group meeting. Maybe share in next communication, ahead of the next meeting.

JMcSorley: We'll add that to the list and point it out.
... <sharing screen of Lisa's draft email>
... This was just recently put together. Not yet polished.
... This isn't the only way to get the word out, we could post something on wiki page as well. Feel free to edit. Everyone should be able to edit.
... I want to have 2 outcomes. Look at this from perspective of email draft. And I would like to have ideas on other forms of communication besides email.
... Please review email for 2-3 minutes.

queue jeopardy music

Julierawe: Do you want gut reactions?

JMcSorley: I'm going to take notes in the document.
... Yes gut reactions and what should be included. Does need lots of editing.

Kirkwood: My gut reaction is run it through ai to make it inspirational or appealing to people that want to make a big effective change for w3c and cognitive accessibility.

Julierawe: We should draft a subject line. We need and want help, subject line is great place to do it. The 1st paragraph is a bit overwhelming. Too many links.
... We can maybe redo some of the links.

JMcSorley: Any thoughts on an appealing subject line?

Julierawe: "We need your help for X". "We are recruiting new members for X". straightforward.
... Maybe mention how quickly we want to hear back from interested members. Maybe create some urgency to respond.
... Sometimes if you get an email and it doesn't appear urgent, you never get back to it.

GUILTY!

Kirkwood: Be inspirational and have some urgency. Tell a well renowned AI that, and see what comes out.

JMcSorley: Anything that anybody thinks is missing from the email?

Julierawe: I wonder if there's something on time commitment?
... What the current draft does well is show importance. Maybe a sentence on the time commitment that indicates this is not going to be a huge time commitment unless you really want to be that involved.

Kirkwood: Estimated time commitment.

<julierawe> chuck Don't set the bar too low or else you'll spend every meeting explaining what the group has been doing

<JMcSorley> Chuck: Don't set the bar too low so that you don't spend too much time in meetings catching people up, which can be detrimental to the group's progress

JMcSorley: We also had some ideas in the charter document about participation. We are trying to come up with bulleted list on what expertise and background we are seeking. Should that be included?

<julierawe> A short bulleted list would be great!

JMcSorley: For example, people who are fluent in languages other than english, have expertise with working with individuals with disabilities. Is that too much?

Kirkwood: We are talking specifically cognitive?

JMcSorley: We are providing feedback with an emphasis on accessibility guidance for internationalization concerns.

Kirkwood: Sometimes I have an issue with being too heavy on the disability side of things. Lot's of people have lived experience with aging that have cognitive needs. What we are doing speaks to this.
... Anyone helping out a family member.
... Let's be open to that community.

JMcSorley: Good point. It's tricky. We haven't really explained it sufficiently in our charter document. That will need some additional work. May be too messy to put in this email.

Kirkwood: If you have experience with helping an aging individual, you can help with this!
... Lots of people are already doing this.

JMcSorley: Will try to express this is a short way.
... One of the things the internationalization group commented on, fluency with language other than english, not as important as people with linguistic expertise.
... That's really important for providing adequate guidance. We want that experience, but that's not our only need.

Kirkwood: But it'd defiinitely important to recruit for.

JMcSorley: We have some with that background already. Would be great to have more, from other parts of the world.

Kirkwood: W3C is dealing with very large orgs that have that in their current structure. You have to have localization and internationalization, or you run into troubles that put the company at risk.

JMcSorley: This has been helpful, thank you all for this feedback!

Discuss agenda items for the next Internationalization Accessibility Community Group meeting on Wednesday, July 3, 2024.

<JMcSorley> Google Doc Notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TeGEsD1JVf7L9bFW3_e7YTnqtmUnpTldJhD6N16ElAU/edit?usp=sharing

JMcSorley: Rachael recommends we keep this as a running doc.
... Particularly due to challenges with irc.
... Look at everyone's comments on the draft, we are hoping to turn that into our charter document. That's item #1.
... Do you feel that when we send that out, should I include COGA? Or just community group?

JulieRawe: I think that might also be good to include a deadline. We want to put this in front of community group members and inform Coga, AG, Internationalization TF, and let everyone know we are going to finalize the wording.

Happy to help scribe!

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Default Present: EA, tburtin, Jennie, Becca_Monteleone, Rain, Jan, julierawe, kirkwood, Lionel, Chuck, Frankie
Present: EA, tburtin, Jennie, Becca_Monteleone, Rain, Jan, julierawe, kirkwood, Lionel, Chuck, Frankie
Regrets: Lisa
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