IRC log of matf on 2024-06-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 12:56:10 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #matf
- 12:56:15 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/19-matf-irc
- 12:56:15 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 12:56:16 [Zakim]
- please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ
- 12:56:20 [JJ]
- Zakim, this is MATF June 19, 2024
- 12:56:20 [Zakim]
- got it, JJ
- 12:56:30 [AlainVagner]
- AlainVagner has joined #matf
- 12:56:38 [AlainVagner]
- present+
- 12:56:47 [JJ]
- agenda+ Github issues
- 12:57:00 [JJ]
- agenda+ 1.1.1 Non-text Content
- 12:57:09 [JJ]
- agenda+ 1.2.1 Audio-only and Video-only (Prerecorded)
- 12:57:15 [JJ]
- agenda+ 1.2.2 - Captions (Prerecorded)
- 12:57:24 [JJ]
- agenda+ 1.2.3 - Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded)
- 12:57:30 [JJ]
- agenda+ 1.2.4 - Captions (Live)
- 12:57:38 [JJ]
- agenda+ 1.2.5 - Audio Description (Prerecorded)
- 12:57:52 [JJ]
- zakim, agenda?
- 12:57:52 [Zakim]
- I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
- 12:57:53 [Zakim]
- 1. Github issues [from JJ]
- 12:57:53 [Zakim]
- 2. 1.1.1 Non-text Content [from JJ]
- 12:57:53 [Zakim]
- 3. 1.2.1 Audio-only and Video-only (Prerecorded) [from JJ]
- 12:57:53 [Zakim]
- 4. 1.2.2 - Captions (Prerecorded) [from JJ]
- 12:57:54 [Zakim]
- 5. 1.2.3 - Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded) [from JJ]
- 12:57:54 [Zakim]
- 6. 1.2.4 - Captions (Live) [from JJ]
- 12:57:54 [Zakim]
- 7. 1.2.5 - Audio Description (Prerecorded) [from JJ]
- 13:01:04 [Audrey]
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- 13:02:40 [quintinb]
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- 13:03:51 [julianmka]
- julianmka has joined #MATF
- 13:04:03 [Karla]
- Karla has joined #matf
- 13:04:04 [julianmka]
- present+
- 13:04:12 [Karla]
- present+
- 13:04:18 [quintinb]
- present+
- 13:04:33 [Audrey]
- present+
- 13:05:54 [Joe_Humbert]
- present+
- 13:06:09 [Aashutosh]
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- 13:07:46 [Gert]
- Gert has joined #matf
- 13:07:48 [Detlev]
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- 13:07:59 [Detlev]
- present+
- 13:08:05 [Aashutosh]
- present+
- 13:08:10 [Gert]
- present+
- 13:08:21 [gleidsonramos]
- gleidsonramos has joined #matf
- 13:08:48 [quintinb]
- scribe: quintinb
- 13:09:07 [quintinb]
- agenda+
- 13:09:15 [JJ]
- move to next agendum
- 13:09:15 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Github issues -- taken up [from JJ]
- 13:11:12 [JJ]
- move to next agendum
- 13:11:12 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- 1.1.1 Non-text Content -- taken up [from JJ]
- 13:13:30 [quintinb]
- q+
- 13:13:42 [JJ]
- ack quintinb
- 13:14:20 [JJ]
- quintin: consider other dimensions of non-text content such as haptic feedback
- 13:14:42 [quintinb]
- quintin: Just trying to help people think that mobile introduces new concepts like haptics
- 13:15:27 [Detlev]
- q+
- 13:15:39 [Aashutosh]
- q+
- 13:15:51 [quintinb]
- I suppose something like haptics falls under the "multiple means"
- 13:16:03 [Aashutosh]
- q-
- 13:16:29 [quintinb]
- q?
- 13:16:38 [julianmka]
- q+
- 13:16:46 [quintinb]
- ack Detlev
- 13:17:05 [JJ]
- ack julianmka
- 13:19:28 [quintinb]
- Julian: Emojis + Custom emojis: Would we want to offer guidance from a linguistic perspective?
- 13:21:50 [quintinb]
- Quintin: Because intention is often the key communication, and I would argue to allow people to provide their own meaning in context
- 13:22:10 [quintinb]
- Julian: It's about surrounding context
- 13:22:13 [Detlev]
- q+
- 13:22:16 [Joe_Humbert]
- q+
- 13:23:27 [quintinb]
- Julian: Another thing is how to integrate emoji into body content - e.g. using them as bullet points
- 13:23:58 [Mick]
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- 13:24:00 [JJ]
- ack Detlev
- 13:24:55 [quintinb]
- Detlev: Around context specific: Normally surrounding context is self-providing. I imagine an emoji would be better if there was a prescriptive word
- 13:25:32 [quintinb]
- That's what I live about :thumbs-up: for example - it's very well self described and non emotive
- 13:25:42 [quintinb]
- like not live
- 13:25:54 [JJ]
- ack Joe_Humbert
- 13:26:13 [quintinb]
- Joe: In terms of providing guidance - it should be separate from the main guidance
- 13:26:40 [quintinb]
- Agree
- 13:26:45 [Aashutosh]
- great idea Joe_Humbert
- 13:27:13 [quintinb]
- We should also be careful about letting "hot topics" take control
- 13:27:48 [JJ]
- move to next agendum
- 13:27:48 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- 1.2.1 Audio-only and Video-only (Prerecorded) -- taken up [from JJ]
- 13:28:38 [quintinb]
- q+
- 13:29:21 [Detlev]
- q+
- 13:30:03 [JJ]
- ack quintinb
- 13:30:08 [quintinb]
- Quintin: Is an external link along with the content sufficient? Can we include definitions of transcripts and captions? Do captions need to identify speakers and significant sounds?
- 13:31:36 [Joe_Humbert]
- Would the definitions be good updates for the larger AG in general?
- 13:34:12 [JJ]
- ack Detlev
- 13:34:14 [quintinb]
- Quintin: We should focus on the goal
- 13:35:04 [quintinb]
- Detlev: What are the different options? What is an author issue?
- 13:37:49 [quintinb]
- Quintin: We should mention to respect the OS user settings
- 13:38:42 [quintinb]
- JJ: Nothing changes, perhaps add some best practices
- 13:39:17 [JJ]
- move to next agendum
- 13:39:17 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- 1.2.2 - Captions (Prerecorded) -- taken up [from JJ]
- 13:39:29 [quintinb]
- JJ: Already partially discussed
- 13:39:46 [Detlev]
- q+
- 13:41:52 [quintinb]
- JJ: Is there a difference or difference in guidance from the Web 1.2.2?
- 13:42:07 [quintinb]
- JJ: Mostly on Web captions are not being picked up
- 13:42:27 [JJ]
- ack Detlev
- 13:42:57 [quintinb]
- Detlev: Players not picking up captions: Is this an app or browsing context?
- 13:43:53 [JJ]
- Quitin: Native players provided out-of-the-box on Android/iOS
- 13:45:37 [JJ]
- Detlev: so it's mostly guidance for the videoplayer creators vs developers
- 13:45:55 [quintinb]
- Agree
- 13:46:10 [quintinb]
- JJ: Perhaps provide guidance to facilitate understanding
- 13:46:55 [quintinb]
- move to next agendum
- 13:46:55 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- 1.2.3 - Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded) -- taken up [from JJ]
- 13:47:21 [quintinb]
- move to next agendum
- 13:47:21 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 was just opened, quintinb
- 13:47:39 [JJ]
- move to next agendum
- 13:47:39 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 was just opened, JJ
- 13:47:59 [AlainVagner]
- you can open agendum <number>
- 13:48:11 [Aashutosh]
- q+
- 13:48:17 [JJ]
- open agendum 6
- 13:48:18 [quintinb]
- JJ: Any additional understanding on 1.2.4?
- 13:48:30 [JJ]
- ack Aashutosh
- 13:48:57 [quintinb]
- Aashutosh: They need to be visible
- 13:50:23 [quintinb]
- Quintin: Highlight OS settings should be respected re: size and colours of caption font and background
- 13:50:42 [quintinb]
- Quintin: Usually vendors specify the position of captions
- 13:51:00 [quintinb]
- JJ: Add this to the application part or recommendations
- 13:51:10 [AlainVagner]
- q+
- 13:51:23 [JJ]
- ack AlainVagner
- 13:51:44 [quintinb]
- Alain: EN has extra criteria (7.1.4) and 11.7
- 13:51:47 [Detlev]
- q+
- 13:52:05 [quintinb]
- Alain: Outside of WCAG to support customization
- 13:52:20 [AlainVagner]
- EN 301 549 7.1.4 https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/301500_301599/301549/03.02.01_60/en_301549v030201p.pdf#page=35
- 13:52:27 [JJ]
- ack Detlev
- 13:53:19 [quintinb]
- Detlev: It could be trickier in mobile as there is less space for controls, etc.
- 13:54:43 [quintinb]
- JJ: How do we deal with open captions regarding guidance?
- 13:55:07 [quintinb]
- Detlev: They are a "get out of jail free" card as you can't change them post processing
- 13:55:54 [quintinb]
- JJ: Do open captions comply?
- 13:55:54 [quintinb]
- Detlev: It's not ideal, but it's something that could "get past" requirements
- 13:56:30 [quintinb]
- Quintin: If someone is using a braille display, open captions won't be helpful
- 13:58:52 [Audrey]
- the EN also has a criteria for that : 7.1.5 Spoken subtitles, really interesting for that use case.
- 14:01:45 [JJ]
- Zakim, list participants
- 14:01:45 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been AlainVagner, julianmka, Karla, quintinb, Audrey, Joe_Humbert, Detlev, Aashutosh, Gert
- 14:01:50 [JJ]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:01:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/19-matf-minutes.html JJ
- 14:25:47 [JJ]
- present+
- 14:26:54 [JJ]
- agenda 5 = 1.2.4 - Captions (Live)
- 14:27:12 [JJ]
- agenda?
- 14:27:19 [JJ]
- drop agendum 5
- 14:27:21 [JJ]
- drop agendum 6
- 14:27:23 [JJ]
- drop agendum 7
- 14:27:34 [JJ]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:27:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/19-matf-minutes.html JJ
- 14:32:40 [JJ]
- Meeting: MATF June 19, 2024
- 14:32:55 [JJ]
- Chair: Jan Jaap de Groot
- 14:33:07 [JJ]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/3f02b083-c960-4129-9443-33df88db7c5a/20240619T090000/
- 14:33:12 [JJ]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:33:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/19-matf-minutes.html JJ
- 14:37:24 [JJ]
- rrsagent, create minutes
- 14:37:25 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/19-matf-minutes.html JJ
- 14:38:31 [JJ]
- agenda?
- 14:39:27 [JJ]
- agenda 5 = 1.2.4 - Captions (Live)
- 14:39:48 [JJ]
- rrsagent, create minutes
- 14:39:49 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/19-matf-minutes.html JJ
- 15:37:34 [JJ]
- JJ has joined #matf
- 15:37:42 [JJ]
- rrsagent, bye
- 15:37:42 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items