13:48:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:48:22 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-irc
13:49:00 <addison> Meeting: I18N ⇔ CSS
13:49:07 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a1f2b55d-d2c7-40a1-a3e7-4c5eb70aa55e/20240618T070000/
13:49:07 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:49:07 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda
13:49:07 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:49:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share and Progress Reports
13:49:11 <agendabot> agenda+ Reorganization of LREQ documents
13:49:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Emphasis Skip
13:49:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Review on-going issues
13:49:23 <addison> agenda+ AOB?
13:49:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:49:40 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:00:24 <addison> addison has joined #i18n
14:00:44 <addison> present+ Addison
14:02:41 <fantasai> fantasai has joined #i18n
14:02:52 <fantasai> present+
14:04:26 <addison> addison has joined #i18n
14:05:01 <addison> agenda?
14:05:24 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:05:24 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:52 <addison> agenda+ CSS#10363
14:05:52 <gb> Issue 10363 not found
14:06:25 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:06:25 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:06:36 <gb> Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #99, #68, #35, #16, #11
14:06:41 <addison> #99
14:06:41 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/99 -> Action 99  ping unicode about emphasis skip property (see our #530) (on aphillips) due 2024-05-28
14:07:01 <addison> close #99
14:07:02 <gb> Closed -> issue #99 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/99
14:07:06 <addison> #68
14:07:06 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/68 -> Action 68  follow up with florian about testing with kindle (on aphillips) due 2024-01-25
14:07:27 <addison> close #68
14:07:27 <addison> #35
14:07:28 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35 -> Action 35 review quote character edits of CSS #5478 with CSS (on fantasai) due 2023-08-30
14:07:28 <gb> Closed -> issue #68 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/68
14:08:12 <addison> florin: did discuss with css, good solution but hasn't been edited in
14:08:41 <addison> ... are we clear that for 'q' we want parent language. for elements not-'q', is going off the parent correct??
14:09:28 <addison> ... if you e.g. added open/close quote on say blockquote
14:09:39 <addison> fantasai: pull quotes are more common like that
14:09:51 <addison> florian: if we never work off element but always off parent
14:11:10 <addison> forian: think it might be "it depends"
14:11:24 <addison> addison: only quotes?
14:11:54 <addison> action: florian: write an issue about quote auto behavior for non-q elements
14:12:03 <gb> Created -> action #107 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/107
14:12:18 <addison> close #35
14:12:19 <gb> Closed -> issue #35 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35
14:12:23 <addison> #16
14:12:24 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/16 -> Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips) due 1 Jan 2024
14:12:28 <r12a> r12a has joined #i18n
14:12:37 <addison> #11
14:12:38 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/11 -> Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal) due 18 Jul 2023
14:13:05 <addison> agenda?
14:13:05 <gb> Issue 10363 not found
14:13:08 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:13:09 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share and Progress Reports -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:13:34 <addison> florian: wg that hosts ruby expires and was extended so we can keep working
14:13:57 <addison> addison: we have folks working on a review
14:14:13 <addison> florian: did file HR review requests
14:14:48 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:14:48 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Reorganization of LREQ documents -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:15:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:15:14 <addison> present+ Richard
14:15:14 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/laoo-gap/
14:15:25 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/laoo-lreq/
14:15:51 <addison> richard: just a heads up, just published 3 more of these, kashmiri, uighur, urdu
14:16:06 <addison> ... a lot of these didn't exist before, some did exist but were manipulated
14:16:12 <addison> ... couple things going on
14:16:21 <addison> ... structure of the docs now follows a particular order
14:16:41 <addison> ... the headers and order is the same across all of them; follows my personal work on orthography
14:17:00 <addison> ... mostly list of links; some don't go anywhere useful
14:17:16 <addison> ... standard categories for the links; close to the language enablement index we used to have
14:17:31 <addison> ... that was not very helpful if you were working on a particular language/ortho
14:17:41 <addison> ... many sections like to stuff in my orthography notes
14:17:52 <florian> q+
14:17:59 <addison> ... was considering copying my stuff into these docs
14:18:05 <addison> ... linked instead.
14:18:29 <addison> richard: some of these docs are just links at the moment, but if someone decides to write stuff they can
14:18:36 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/alreq/
14:18:38 <addison> ... if you look at alreq stuff
14:18:53 <addison> ... already had loads of stuff. repurposed
14:19:09 <addison> ... at beginning of sections
14:19:23 <addison> richard: I'm finding it very helpful
14:19:26 <addison> ack next
14:19:35 <addison> florian: two pieces of feedback
14:19:47 <addison> ... inlining vs. not. this makes sense for editing
14:20:19 <addison> ... for reading, probably fine. if just looking for info. small feedback, not a strong opinion
14:20:32 <addison> ... important that info be backed up by w3c systems
14:20:58 <addison> richard: interesting idea; had other things ahead in priorities
14:21:08 <addison> ... in terms of overview
14:21:21 <addison> ... each one contains the script overview, mainly taken from my stuff
14:21:42 <addison> ... also still ave laanguage enablement index
14:23:40 <addison> richard: didn't include all that stuff for (reasons); some IP concerns
14:24:02 <addison> ack next
14:24:24 <addison> fantasai: plan is to put all content in your docs?
14:24:52 <addison> richard: no, what we are doing is pointing to my existing content rather than copying in and maintaining in two places
14:25:25 <addison> fantasai: is the plan to maintain in your docs?
14:31:40 <xfq> present+
14:32:14 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:32:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
14:34:14 <addison> agenda?
14:34:16 <gb> Issue 10363 not found
14:36:43 <xfq> present+ atsushi
14:36:52 <xfq> present+ florian
14:36:58 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:36:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
14:37:30 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
14:37:30 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- CSS#10363 -- taken up [from addison]
14:37:58 <addison> csswg-drafts#10363
14:37:58 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10363 -> Issue 10363 [css-text-3][css-text-4] Japanese small kana and `line-break: normal` (by fantasai) [css-text-3] [css-text-4] [Agenda+] [i18n-tracker] [i18n-jlreq] [Agenda+ i18n]
14:38:18 <addison> fantasai: was looking into webkit line breaking
14:38:23 <addison> ... was inconsistent
14:38:37 <addison> ... in strict, can't wrap before small kana but can in loose
14:39:01 <addison> ... this is unexpected from some japanese users, FF is already shipping
14:39:07 <addison> ... should we just change the default?
14:39:25 <addison> florian: in issue called this "proposal B"
14:39:34 <addison> ... currently not "up to you", you're supposed to break
14:39:44 <addison> florian: would support either A or B but prefer B
14:40:50 <fantasai> https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/#characters_not_starting_a_line
14:41:15 <addison> atsushi: in jlreq
14:41:38 <addison> florian: 3.1.7 in jlreq mentions small kana (in princple no line should start...)
14:41:48 <xfq> In principle, no line should begin with [...] small kana (cl-11)
14:41:51 <addison> atsushi: need to go back to jlreq folks
14:42:18 <addison> florian: please be clear we are only discussing *default* behavior, can still allow
14:42:32 <addison> fantasai: currently 50/50 in terms of implementation
14:43:28 <addison> action: atsushi: talk to jlreq about *default* behavior of line breaking with small kana (cf. csswg-drafts#10363)
14:43:28 <gb> Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe atsushi is not a valid user for w3c/i18n-actions?
14:43:44 <addison> action: himoren: talk to jlreq about *default* behavior of line breaking with small kana (cf. csswg-drafts#10363)
14:43:45 <gb> Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe himoren is not a valid user for w3c/i18n-actions?
14:43:51 <addison> gb, atsushi is himoren
14:43:51 <gb> addison, OK.
14:44:30 <addison> action: himorin: talk to jlreq about *default* behavior of line breaking with small kana (cf. csswg-drafts#10363)
14:44:31 <gb> Created -> action #108 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/108
14:44:38 <addison> gb, atsushi is himorin
14:44:38 <gb> addison, OK.
14:44:56 <r12a> #108 note https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10363
14:44:57 <gb> Added -> comment https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/108#issuecomment-2176285763
14:45:20 <r12a> #108 note https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-3/#line-break-property
14:45:21 <gb> Added -> comment https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/108#issuecomment-2176286889
14:45:33 <r12a> #108 note https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/#characters_not_starting_a_line
14:45:34 <gb> Added -> comment https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/108#issuecomment-2176287394
14:48:46 <addison> addison has joined #i18n
14:49:55 <addison> agenda?
14:49:58 <gb> Issue 10363 not found
14:50:29 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:50:29 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Emphasis Skip -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:51:22 <xfq> addison: the issue about the code points emphasis marks should skip
14:51:25 <xfq> scribe+
14:51:35 <xfq> ... about maintaining the list in Unicode
14:51:46 <xfq> ... we can't change General_Category
14:51:57 <xfq> ... but maybe we could add a property
14:52:15 <xfq> ... there are differences between punctuation and symbol
14:52:29 <xfq> ... that occured in Unicode many years ago
14:52:36 <xfq> ... maybe there's a path forward about it
14:52:44 <xfq> florian: I don't know
14:52:59 <xfq> ... I'm not excessively concerned about trying to write an initial version of it
14:53:42 <xfq> ... if we create a base set to start from there, I think we can help with that
14:53:57 <xfq> ... but the whole point to have Unicode maintain it is that they can maintain it
14:54:35 <xfq> addison: it might be more visible in the Unicode space if they were maintaining it
14:54:52 <xfq> ... other text applications that we don't know about would come along
14:54:57 <xfq> florian: absolutely
14:55:05 <xfq> ... in principle, it's generic
14:55:20 <xfq> ... if we're more specific than we should be, I don't think it's intentional
14:55:24 <xfq> addison: OK
14:56:12 <xfq> florian: the ability to switch on and off and make exceptions and tweak it in one way or another, that's on us
14:56:34 <xfq> ... but the basis about what isit supposed to apply to ought to be generic
14:56:39 <xfq> addison: I agree
14:57:18 <xfq> s/isit/is it
14:57:43 <xfq> florian: I have a very small update
14:57:59 <xfq> ... about CSS text-wrap: balance
14:58:12 <xfq> ... Chrome had not implmented yet
14:58:15 <xfq> ... I did reach out
14:58:20 <xfq> ... they say it's scheduled
14:58:35 <xfq> ... they're gonna try and fix it somewhere in autumn
14:59:12 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:00:08 <xfq> florian: in the future if there's any long living property that you want to suggest should be split into a bunch of longhands and become a shorthand
15:00:13 <xfq> ... this is not always trivial
15:00:23 <xfq> ... for object model reasons
15:00:35 <xfq> ... the WG is trying to find general solutions to that problem
15:00:46 <xfq> ... whether we will succeed remains to be seen
15:00:53 <xfq> ... it's a case by case problem at the moment
15:02:19 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:02:38 <addison> zakim, who is here?
15:02:38 <Zakim> Present: Addison, fantasai, Richard, xfq, atsushi, florian
15:02:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see addison, r12a, fantasai, RRSAgent, Zakim, atsushi, alastairc, Rachael, hsivonen, florian, agendabot, Bert, csarven, astearns, koji, eemeli, gb, xfq, Mek, hadleybeeman,
15:02:39 <Zakim> ... cwilso
15:02:43 <addison> zakim, bye
15:02:43 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, fantasai, Richard, xfq, atsushi, florian
15:02:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
15:02:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html addison