IRC log of i18n on 2024-06-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:48:18 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #i18n
- 13:48:22 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-irc
- 13:49:00 [addison]
- Meeting: I18N ⇔ CSS
- 13:49:07 [agendabot]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a1f2b55d-d2c7-40a1-a3e7-4c5eb70aa55e/20240618T070000/
- 13:49:07 [agendabot]
- clear agenda
- 13:49:07 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Agenda
- 13:49:07 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Action Items
- 13:49:09 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Info Share and Progress Reports
- 13:49:11 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Reorganization of LREQ documents
- 13:49:14 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Emphasis Skip
- 13:49:16 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Review on-going issues
- 13:49:23 [addison]
- agenda+ AOB?
- 13:49:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 13:49:40 [addison]
- Chair: Addison Phillips
- 14:00:24 [addison]
- addison has joined #i18n
- 14:00:44 [addison]
- present+ Addison
- 14:02:41 [fantasai]
- fantasai has joined #i18n
- 14:02:52 [fantasai]
- present+
- 14:04:26 [addison]
- addison has joined #i18n
- 14:05:01 [addison]
- agenda?
- 14:05:24 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 14:05:24 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Agenda -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 14:05:52 [addison]
- agenda+ CSS#10363
- 14:05:52 [gb]
- Issue 10363 not found
- 14:06:25 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 2
- 14:06:25 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 14:06:36 [gb]
- Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #99, #68, #35, #16, #11
- 14:06:41 [addison]
- #99
- 14:06:41 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/99 -> Action 99 ping unicode about emphasis skip property (see our #530) (on aphillips) due 2024-05-28
- 14:07:01 [addison]
- close #99
- 14:07:02 [gb]
- Closed -> issue #99 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/99
- 14:07:06 [addison]
- #68
- 14:07:06 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/68 -> Action 68 follow up with florian about testing with kindle (on aphillips) due 2024-01-25
- 14:07:27 [addison]
- close #68
- 14:07:27 [addison]
- #35
- 14:07:28 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35 -> Action 35 review quote character edits of CSS #5478 with CSS (on fantasai) due 2023-08-30
- 14:07:28 [gb]
- Closed -> issue #68 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/68
- 14:08:12 [addison]
- florin: did discuss with css, good solution but hasn't been edited in
- 14:08:41 [addison]
- ... are we clear that for 'q' we want parent language. for elements not-'q', is going off the parent correct??
- 14:09:28 [addison]
- ... if you e.g. added open/close quote on say blockquote
- 14:09:39 [addison]
- fantasai: pull quotes are more common like that
- 14:09:51 [addison]
- florian: if we never work off element but always off parent
- 14:11:10 [addison]
- forian: think it might be "it depends"
- 14:11:24 [addison]
- addison: only quotes?
- 14:11:54 [addison]
- action: florian: write an issue about quote auto behavior for non-q elements
- 14:12:03 [gb]
- Created -> action #107 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/107
- 14:12:18 [addison]
- close #35
- 14:12:19 [gb]
- Closed -> issue #35 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35
- 14:12:23 [addison]
- #16
- 14:12:24 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/16 -> Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips) due 1 Jan 2024
- 14:12:28 [r12a]
- r12a has joined #i18n
- 14:12:37 [addison]
- #11
- 14:12:38 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/11 -> Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal) due 18 Jul 2023
- 14:13:05 [addison]
- agenda?
- 14:13:05 [gb]
- Issue 10363 not found
- 14:13:08 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 3
- 14:13:09 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Info Share and Progress Reports -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 14:13:34 [addison]
- florian: wg that hosts ruby expires and was extended so we can keep working
- 14:13:57 [addison]
- addison: we have folks working on a review
- 14:14:13 [addison]
- florian: did file HR review requests
- 14:14:48 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 14:14:48 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- Reorganization of LREQ documents -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 14:15:06 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 14:15:14 [addison]
- present+ Richard
- 14:15:14 [r12a]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/laoo-gap/
- 14:15:25 [r12a]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/laoo-lreq/
- 14:15:51 [addison]
- richard: just a heads up, just published 3 more of these, kashmiri, uighur, urdu
- 14:16:06 [addison]
- ... a lot of these didn't exist before, some did exist but were manipulated
- 14:16:12 [addison]
- ... couple things going on
- 14:16:21 [addison]
- ... structure of the docs now follows a particular order
- 14:16:41 [addison]
- ... the headers and order is the same across all of them; follows my personal work on orthography
- 14:17:00 [addison]
- ... mostly list of links; some don't go anywhere useful
- 14:17:16 [addison]
- ... standard categories for the links; close to the language enablement index we used to have
- 14:17:31 [addison]
- ... that was not very helpful if you were working on a particular language/ortho
- 14:17:41 [addison]
- ... many sections like to stuff in my orthography notes
- 14:17:52 [florian]
- q+
- 14:17:59 [addison]
- ... was considering copying my stuff into these docs
- 14:18:05 [addison]
- ... linked instead.
- 14:18:29 [addison]
- richard: some of these docs are just links at the moment, but if someone decides to write stuff they can
- 14:18:36 [r12a]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/alreq/
- 14:18:38 [addison]
- ... if you look at alreq stuff
- 14:18:53 [addison]
- ... already had loads of stuff. repurposed
- 14:19:09 [addison]
- ... at beginning of sections
- 14:19:23 [addison]
- richard: I'm finding it very helpful
- 14:19:26 [addison]
- ack next
- 14:19:35 [addison]
- florian: two pieces of feedback
- 14:19:47 [addison]
- ... inlining vs. not. this makes sense for editing
- 14:20:19 [addison]
- ... for reading, probably fine. if just looking for info. small feedback, not a strong opinion
- 14:20:32 [addison]
- ... important that info be backed up by w3c systems
- 14:20:58 [addison]
- richard: interesting idea; had other things ahead in priorities
- 14:21:08 [addison]
- ... in terms of overview
- 14:21:21 [addison]
- ... each one contains the script overview, mainly taken from my stuff
- 14:21:42 [addison]
- ... also still ave laanguage enablement index
- 14:23:40 [addison]
- richard: didn't include all that stuff for (reasons); some IP concerns
- 14:24:02 [addison]
- ack next
- 14:24:24 [addison]
- fantasai: plan is to put all content in your docs?
- 14:24:52 [addison]
- richard: no, what we are doing is pointing to my existing content rather than copying in and maintaining in two places
- 14:25:25 [addison]
- fantasai: is the plan to maintain in your docs?
- 14:31:40 [xfq]
- present+
- 14:32:14 [xfq]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:32:16 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
- 14:34:14 [addison]
- agenda?
- 14:34:16 [gb]
- Issue 10363 not found
- 14:36:43 [xfq]
- present+ atsushi
- 14:36:52 [xfq]
- present+ florian
- 14:36:58 [xfq]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:36:59 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
- 14:37:30 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 8
- 14:37:30 [Zakim]
- agendum 8 -- CSS#10363 -- taken up [from addison]
- 14:37:58 [addison]
- csswg-drafts#10363
- 14:37:58 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10363 -> Issue 10363 [css-text-3][css-text-4] Japanese small kana and `line-break: normal` (by fantasai) [css-text-3] [css-text-4] [Agenda+] [i18n-tracker] [i18n-jlreq] [Agenda+ i18n]
- 14:38:18 [addison]
- fantasai: was looking into webkit line breaking
- 14:38:23 [addison]
- ... was inconsistent
- 14:38:37 [addison]
- ... in strict, can't wrap before small kana but can in loose
- 14:39:01 [addison]
- ... this is unexpected from some japanese users, FF is already shipping
- 14:39:07 [addison]
- ... should we just change the default?
- 14:39:25 [addison]
- florian: in issue called this "proposal B"
- 14:39:34 [addison]
- ... currently not "up to you", you're supposed to break
- 14:39:44 [addison]
- florian: would support either A or B but prefer B
- 14:40:50 [fantasai]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/#characters_not_starting_a_line
- 14:41:15 [addison]
- atsushi: in jlreq
- 14:41:38 [addison]
- florian: 3.1.7 in jlreq mentions small kana (in princple no line should start...)
- 14:41:48 [xfq]
- In principle, no line should begin with [...] small kana (cl-11)
- 14:41:51 [addison]
- atsushi: need to go back to jlreq folks
- 14:42:18 [addison]
- florian: please be clear we are only discussing *default* behavior, can still allow
- 14:42:32 [addison]
- fantasai: currently 50/50 in terms of implementation
- 14:43:28 [addison]
- action: atsushi: talk to jlreq about *default* behavior of line breaking with small kana (cf. csswg-drafts#10363)
- 14:43:28 [gb]
- Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe atsushi is not a valid user for w3c/i18n-actions?
- 14:43:44 [addison]
- action: himoren: talk to jlreq about *default* behavior of line breaking with small kana (cf. csswg-drafts#10363)
- 14:43:45 [gb]
- Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe himoren is not a valid user for w3c/i18n-actions?
- 14:43:51 [addison]
- gb, atsushi is himoren
- 14:43:51 [gb]
- addison, OK.
- 14:44:30 [addison]
- action: himorin: talk to jlreq about *default* behavior of line breaking with small kana (cf. csswg-drafts#10363)
- 14:44:31 [gb]
- Created -> action #108 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/108
- 14:44:38 [addison]
- gb, atsushi is himorin
- 14:44:38 [gb]
- addison, OK.
- 14:44:56 [r12a]
- #108 note https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10363
- 14:44:57 [gb]
- Added -> comment https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/108#issuecomment-2176285763
- 14:45:20 [r12a]
- #108 note https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-3/#line-break-property
- 14:45:21 [gb]
- Added -> comment https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/108#issuecomment-2176286889
- 14:45:33 [r12a]
- #108 note https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/#characters_not_starting_a_line
- 14:45:34 [gb]
- Added -> comment https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/108#issuecomment-2176287394
- 14:48:46 [addison]
- addison has joined #i18n
- 14:49:55 [addison]
- agenda?
- 14:49:58 [gb]
- Issue 10363 not found
- 14:50:29 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 5
- 14:50:29 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- Emphasis Skip -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 14:51:22 [xfq]
- addison: the issue about the code points emphasis marks should skip
- 14:51:25 [xfq]
- scribe+
- 14:51:35 [xfq]
- ... about maintaining the list in Unicode
- 14:51:46 [xfq]
- ... we can't change General_Category
- 14:51:57 [xfq]
- ... but maybe we could add a property
- 14:52:15 [xfq]
- ... there are differences between punctuation and symbol
- 14:52:29 [xfq]
- ... that occured in Unicode many years ago
- 14:52:36 [xfq]
- ... maybe there's a path forward about it
- 14:52:44 [xfq]
- florian: I don't know
- 14:52:59 [xfq]
- ... I'm not excessively concerned about trying to write an initial version of it
- 14:53:42 [xfq]
- ... if we create a base set to start from there, I think we can help with that
- 14:53:57 [xfq]
- ... but the whole point to have Unicode maintain it is that they can maintain it
- 14:54:35 [xfq]
- addison: it might be more visible in the Unicode space if they were maintaining it
- 14:54:52 [xfq]
- ... other text applications that we don't know about would come along
- 14:54:57 [xfq]
- florian: absolutely
- 14:55:05 [xfq]
- ... in principle, it's generic
- 14:55:20 [xfq]
- ... if we're more specific than we should be, I don't think it's intentional
- 14:55:24 [xfq]
- addison: OK
- 14:56:12 [xfq]
- florian: the ability to switch on and off and make exceptions and tweak it in one way or another, that's on us
- 14:56:34 [xfq]
- ... but the basis about what isit supposed to apply to ought to be generic
- 14:56:39 [xfq]
- addison: I agree
- 14:57:18 [xfq]
- s/isit/is it
- 14:57:43 [xfq]
- florian: I have a very small update
- 14:57:59 [xfq]
- ... about CSS text-wrap: balance
- 14:58:12 [xfq]
- ... Chrome had not implmented yet
- 14:58:15 [xfq]
- ... I did reach out
- 14:58:20 [xfq]
- ... they say it's scheduled
- 14:58:35 [xfq]
- ... they're gonna try and fix it somewhere in autumn
- 14:59:12 [xfq]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:59:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
- 15:00:08 [xfq]
- florian: in the future if there's any long living property that you want to suggest should be split into a bunch of longhands and become a shorthand
- 15:00:13 [xfq]
- ... this is not always trivial
- 15:00:23 [xfq]
- ... for object model reasons
- 15:00:35 [xfq]
- ... the WG is trying to find general solutions to that problem
- 15:00:46 [xfq]
- ... whether we will succeed remains to be seen
- 15:00:53 [xfq]
- ... it's a case by case problem at the moment
- 15:02:19 [xfq]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:02:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
- 15:02:38 [addison]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:02:38 [Zakim]
- Present: Addison, fantasai, Richard, xfq, atsushi, florian
- 15:02:39 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see addison, r12a, fantasai, RRSAgent, Zakim, atsushi, alastairc, Rachael, hsivonen, florian, agendabot, Bert, csarven, astearns, koji, eemeli, gb, xfq, Mek, hadleybeeman,
- 15:02:39 [Zakim]
- ... cwilso
- 15:02:43 [addison]
- zakim, bye
- 15:02:43 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, fantasai, Richard, xfq, atsushi, florian
- 15:02:43 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #i18n
- 15:02:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/18-i18n-minutes.html addison