Meeting minutes
<janina> Date 18 Jun 2024
Introductions. Updates.
Lionel_Wolberger: Reviews COGA participation
Lionel_Wolberger: We met with COGA but did not have time to discuss symbols. They invited us for a return visit to discuss same.
Lionel_Wolberger: Suggests check for open items?
Russell: Issue 240 conversation continues
Lionel: Link, w3c/
matatk: We believe we've addressed WHAT concerns by our post
matatk: We're awaiting their response
matatk: How long do we give them?
matatk: It's summertime, it could be weeks!
. need to provide agenda to TPAC
matatk: Gentle nudging might be providing details for our TPAC agenda which symbols will certainly be agendad
matatk: On the side we should read COGA doc for any design showstoppers
Russell: Had very positive Unicode meeting; good support for getting Bliss in asap
Russell: Notes unicode is volunteer maintained
Russell: So we're somewhat detained by maintainer availability
Russell: Registry we're part of was not maintained, so a bit of extra work
Russell: Wouldn't expect asking unicode to maintain would be suboptimal
Lionel_Wolberger: we're interested in normative and scalable
... this emoji registry is likely not sufficiently normative for our use
janina: The user agent will likely rely on unicode values, but the registry will likely be W3C hosted as we have been planning
… and will better support authoring as a result
Issue 240 Finalizations
Symbols explainer
Lionel_Wolberger: symbols are variously called AAC symbols, glyphs, pictograms, emojis, icons, emoticons, logograms, ideograms
… Icons: Looking at the bottom of this GMail I see a tiny paperclip and a padlock. These are icons, simplified drawings meant to represent functions like attaching a file or securing data. Click them, and they do their job. In the screen reader they receive whatever label was assigned by the Google team.
… emojis are supported in all chat and documents
… AAC Symbols (ARASAAC): In hospitals and therapeutic settings, you’ll find symbol boards with small cartoons. These are used for communication, where users touch a square to express needs or thoughts. All hospitals offer a drawing of a cup of water, meant to indicate thirst--but the drawing is different in each locale.
… Wingdings and Unicode: Unicode and ASCII are character sets for computer displays, including everything from letters and numbers to scissors and bells.
… Bliss Symbolics: An entire language of non-alphanumeric glyphs curated by an international community. These symbols can convey complex messages
… one member of the community was translating the Bible into Bliss Symbolics
… Our work in dealing with symbols has been challenging, here are some of the reasons
Russell: Some symbols are not intended to be tiny
only some?
Lionel_Wolberger: No Universal Term: We haven’t agreed on a single word for these things.
… Lack of Universal Semantics: What means something in one context might be meaningless or confusing in another.
… Audience Confusion: Try explaining the potential benefits of universal semantics for these symbols, without these general terms
… Our goal is to create specifications for content authors to add semantic metadata to symbols.
… or encode the symbols with semantic metadata
Russell: Add 'logogram' to the list of potential terms
janina: We do need a good taxonomical structure, and words that communicate well
… we think this will make a big splash so we need good words
… but it may be very hard to pin it down
… I think hieroglyphs should work, would like to explore why it does not
… I don't think we are 'adding semantic' data
… we are seeking to embed lexical meaning into web content, as that is what happens when you transform ARASAAC to another symbol set
Russell: We are trying to come up with a word that covers all these different terms, of things that serve different purposes and are different subsets
janina: Lexical meaning is the meaning that the dictionary conveys
Well known destinations
Discussing WKD with COGA
Lionel_Wolberger: They didn't not like it!
matatk: They did like it!
matatk: Have notes from call ...\
matatk: Caught 5 specific questions/comments/interventions
Lionel_Wolberger: COGA excited to have systematic access to WKD: Very concerned for help and support; now in WCAG 2.2
Lionel_Wolberger: Expressed in various ways
Lionel_Wolberger: Raised two focus concerns
Lionel_Wolberger: What about a URI with many services? Which do you show?
Lionel_Wolberger: Also interested to jump to location on page
Lionel_Wolberger: Avoid banner, ads, etc
janina: And grey out everything else--even if they didn't articulate that in this telecon
matatk: little to add ...
matatk: Have 5 to review but touch on these themes
matatk: Help: Content on page? Chatbot? Human? What kind of help
matatk: Keen to continue a conversation with us
Abhinav: Please spell out the problem with multiple services on a single FQDN
matatk: 5 questions re frame of reference/inclusion questions
matatk: Present the user with a term they expect
matatk: If help says "sign-in"; is it OK for us to generadize to login?
matatk: A site should be aware--but they may not be
Lionel_Wolberger: 'should be aware' -- the site, having configured the well-known url, should be quite aware of which pages are on offer
matatk: Next divergence between what people expect and what they will get
matatk: The broad WKD, like 'help' could lead to chat, phone, email, or a FAQ.
matatk: We noted help and support module coming; but we need to be design mindful now
… users will want to know what to expect when they reach a well known destination
~m
matatk: Location on the page. Would like the destination to resolve to a location on the page
matatk: 3 Where on the page; was interpreted different ways
… location also can refer to where the WKD list is
… we would like it in the user agent
matatk: Highlighting the relevant content was raised
matatk: 4 about search destination ...
matatk: Noted that search is sometimes with a chatbot
matatk: So a matter of setting expectations
matatk: 5 about subsites ...
matatk: Had the example of hotel
… We have had a use case of a hotel that also has a spa, which login is supported?
matatk: We heard of bank site, once logged in home page might be your personal account once logged in
matatk: Call noted COGA documentation on returning to beginning of a process interaction -- but that doesn't have a URI
matatk: What we go with needs to be defined by our use cases
<Zakim> janina, you wanted to suggest we can't be responsible for ambiguous information publishing design patterns
Abhinav: Question about a chat bot
… how can we know what kind of support is found for a particular site
Lionel_Wolberger: Site owners will decide!
matatk: IA thoughts for next time!
Abhinav: we can write paragraphs on what the standard will expect