11:55:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
11:55:15 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/06-coga-irc
11:55:15 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:55:16 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
11:55:23 <rashmi> present+
11:55:59 <rashmi> agenda+ discuss editorial changes needed(wordsmithing) for proposal 10, proposal 11, Proposal 8 to move to editor's draft in GitHub
11:56:44 <rashmi> agenda+ To discuss the commits in Github branches MH_Proposal2_LimitTopics, MH_Proposal5_6_7_Search for added proposals (2, 5-6-7, 9, 12)
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12:01:17 <lisa> agenda?
12:01:33 <lisa> close item 3
12:01:39 <lisa> close item 4
12:02:05 <lisa> agenda?
12:02:21 <lisa> next item
12:03:11 <rashmi> Discussing Proposal 10 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.ltk4x1p6kttz
12:04:35 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.ltk4x1p6kttz
12:04:47 <lisa> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#make-short-critical-paths-pattern
13:12:30 <rashmi> RRSAgent, make minutes -
13:12:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes -', rashmi.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:12:35 <rashmi> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:12:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/06-coga-minutes.html rashmi
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15:02:10 <Rain> Rain has joined #coga
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15:02:33 <Frankie> present+
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15:03:44 <julierawe4> invite, zakim +Clear Language
15:03:52 <julierawe4> zakim, start meeting
15:03:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:03:59 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:03:59 <julierawe4> chair: julierawe
15:04:02 <Rain> present+
15:04:09 <julierawe4> Meeting: Clear Language and WCAG 3 coordination
15:04:22 <julierawe4> date: 06 06 2024
15:04:23 <julierawe4> zakim, clear agenda
15:04:23 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:04:34 <julierawe4> agenda+ WCAG 3 conformance update
15:05:49 <julierawe4> agenda+ AG survey
15:05:50 <JohnRochford> present+
15:06:07 <julierawe4> agenda next
15:06:16 <julierawe4> zakim, next item
15:06:16 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- WCAG 3 conformance update -- taken up [from julierawe4]
15:06:52 <julierawe4> https://www.w3.org/2024/06/04-ag-minutes.html
15:07:03 <julierawe4> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17VJvnm5UQW4WUzIoo9QNPVGfePgaZa8ifZWs-wtmv7E/edit#slide=id.p
15:10:02 <julierawe4> One possible way AG could do conformance:
15:10:02 <julierawe4> Bronze - All Requirements
15:10:02 <julierawe4> Silver - Bronze + 50% of Best Practices
15:10:02 <julierawe4> Gold - Bronze + 75% of Best Practices and 50% of Assertions
15:15:45 <julierawe4> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Requirements_Survey/?login
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15:20:46 <Rain> Discussed challenges with the survey:
15:20:47 <tburtin> present+
15:21:08 <Rain> Julie: doesn't really know what all the things are, so cannot really make a binary choice of whether or not each thing should be a baseline requirement
15:21:47 <Rain> Rain: very concerned that this survey is not viable for someone with a reading disability (personally will not be able to fill this out)
15:22:18 <Rain> Julie: maybe we can send an email to the AG co-chairs to share that this survey is really really hard to use and process and should not be a determinant for our baseline
15:22:25 <Rain> Julie: will especially hurt COGA work
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15:24:37 <Rain> Julie: also recognizing that not everyone knows enough to make decisions
15:25:29 <Rain> Julie: perhaps a more useful exercise would be to have the people who have been working on them to make more nuanced recomendations
15:25:44 <Rain> ... so that we don't have people weighing in on things they don't know anything about
15:33:48 <Rain> John R: what is the next step?
15:34:11 <Rain> Julie: write to AG chairs on behalf of group with the following points:
15:34:19 <Rain> 1. survey is inaccessible as created
15:34:23 <Rain> 2. propose a different way
15:34:27 <Rain> Different way includes
15:34:59 <Rain> have individuals in the subgroups who worked on each of these make the initial recommendation of which are part of baseline, and which are best practices
15:35:17 <Rain> so that the decisions are being made by people with knowledge who can make recommendation
15:37:50 <julierawe4> Rain: An intermediate solution might be to do a survey on each question so people can indicat on each outcome to say I don't have enough knowlege to make a decision
15:39:08 <julierawe4> Frankie: This survey is so overwhelming and it's not easy to comment
15:39:17 <julierawe4> Frankie: I don't think this is the most effective way to move forward
15:39:42 <julierawe4> Frankie: This could lead to drawing a line of what gets tested and what doesn't
15:40:41 <julierawe4> Frankie: People often complain that cognitive/language issues are hard to test, but that may be because they don't have experience in those areas
15:40:51 <julierawe4> Frankie: experience on how to make testable/repeatable
15:41:32 <julierawe4> Tiffany: I talk to the AG chairs a lot because I need clarification
15:42:06 <julierawe4> Tiffany: For this survey, they likely did not give the specific headings or groups in order to generalize or hide it because some of the conversations have been pretty heated lately
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15:42:43 <julierawe0> present+
15:42:51 <julierawe0> IRC just kicked me out for no reason, ugh
15:45:16 <julierawe0> Can you all see what I'm typing?
15:45:24 <tburtin> I can now
15:46:24 <julierawe0> John R: I suggest we draft the email, look at it together, then send
15:46:35 <julierawe0> Julie: I will draft after this meeting and send to you all
15:46:46 <julierawe0> John R: Include a deadline to respond or else assume you're fine with it
15:47:56 <julierawe0> Tiffany: I believe that John Kirkwood did raise a lot of concerns on Tuesday so you might want to include him in this draft message
15:48:04 <julierawe0> zakim, next item
15:48:04 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- AG survey -- taken up [from julierawe4]
15:48:34 <julierawe0> Tiffany: It's a balance--the chairs do seem to understand that we need a balance of automated testing and user testing
15:50:31 <julierawe0> Tiffany: I've already spent 2 hours and still not done
15:51:25 <julierawe0> Julie: I am going to uncheck all of my boxes and say not to count my survey results
15:53:23 <julierawe0> Tiffany: Suggest sharing with COGA that we are raising concerns with AG chairs about the survey
15:54:29 <julierawe0> Julie: I will send the draft as a google doc to our small group
15:54:38 <julierawe0> rrsagent, make minutes
15:54:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/06-coga-minutes.html julierawe0
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