Meeting minutes
Review agenda and next meeting dates
https://
Matt_King: Requests for changes to agenda?
Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll keep it as-is
Matt_King: Next AT Driver Subgroup meeting: Monday June 10
Matt_King: Next community group meeting: Thursday June 13
Current status
Matt_King: Goal: 6 recommended plans by June 30
Matt_King: We're at risk in that goal, though we're making good progress
Matt_King: 5 plans in candidate review
Matt_King: three are in good shape--alert, command button, link: Approved by Vispero
Matt_King: As for the other two, toggle button and radio group, review is in-progress
Matt_King: Slider and menu button are in the queue; they'll be coming up later on
NVDA Bot issues
Matt_King: I think everything here is resolved, but I just wanted to verify
Matt_King: w3c/
IsaDC: I haven't had an opportunity to run anything with the NVDA bot since it was updated to the latest release of NVDA back in early May
IsaDC: That's because we manually corrected the problems which resulted from the use of the old versions
Matt_King: Okay, in that case, I'll close the issue related to the version of NVDA being used by the NVDA bot
Check in on dialog testing
Feedback: "Bump into the top edge of a modal dialog" (Modal Dialog Example, Test 8, V24.05.09) · Issue #1079 · w3c/aria-at
github: w3c/
Matt_King: IsaDC and I have been discussing this offline
Matt_King: I've been writing a comment regarding some of my thoughts, but I didn't have time to post that comment prior to this meeting
IsaDC: We're going to change the previous test--not only the nested dialog, but also bumping to the top of a "main" dialog?
Matt_King: Yeah, we want to change both the top and the bottom.
Matt_King: ...but rather than taking up meeting time, I'll add the comment and we can proceed from there
Conflicting JAWS results: "Close a modal dialog" Test 2 in V24.05.09 · Issue #1078 · w3c/aria-at
github: w3c/
Matt_King: It appears Hadi had an unusual experience with JAWS
Hadi: Yes! I tested three times, I closed the entire browser and restarted it. Nothing seems to change the outcome
Hadi: IsaDC didn't witness the same behavior as I did.
IsaDC: That's right; JAWS passed all the tests for me
Matt_King: I think we should compare the versions of JAWS and Chrome that Hadi and IsaDC are using
Matt_King: My browser just got updated; it's now at version 124.
Hadi: I don't have access to my testing machine, now, but I believe Chrome was at 125 for me
Matt_King: Ah, yes, Chrome is at 125 for me, too.
IsaDC: Hadi and I are both using Windows 11
IsaDC: On the 13th of May, we received an update for JAWS. Hadi and I both used the previous version.
Matt_King: When you used default settings, do you use "insert", "space", followed by "Z"?
Hadi: Yes
Hadi: I also try to reduce the risk of other factors impacting the results: I close other processes and make the browser window full screen
Hadi: The only thing I change is to increase the speaking speed
Matt_King: I just ran the test again, and I still get the same result as IsaDC
Hadi: I will be glad to test it again when I am in my home office. I'll let you know via e-mail whether the problem persisted
Hadi: Matt_King you can change my results for now. I'll test tonight, and I'll let you know what I find this time
Conflicting VoiceOver test results: "Close a modal dialog" (Modal Dialog Example, Test 6, V24.05.09) · Issue #1071 · w3c/aria-at
github: w3c/
Matt_King: I think we may be ready to close this
Matt_King: There was a discussion about whether or not it should say "main"
Matt_King: We discussed this last time
IsaDC: That's right, and I modified my results
Matt_King: Great; I'll close the issue
Conflicting VoiceOver test results: "Navigate to the top of a modal dialog" (Modal Dialog Example, Test 14, V24.05.09) · Issue #1072 · w3c/aria-at
github: w3c/
Matt_King: This is another VoiceOver conflict
IsaDC: We are fixing this. I didn't advance the test plan yet
Matt_King: I don't think we needed test plan changes for this one
Matt_King: the conflict was: how should we record the fact that the cursor didn't move?
Matt_King: I believe the resolution was that we were going to modify Joe's results
Matt_King: It looks like Joe did that because the app no longer reports conflicts
IsaDC: That's right. Now, there's only the issue about bumping
Matt_King: Bumping was a separate issue at the top of issue #1079 (we were summarizing everything related to dialog)
Review upcoming test queue and report page changes
Matt_King: New test queue in sandbox https://
Matt_King: The test queue will change next week in some really cool ways
Matt_King: IsaDC and I have both looked at this, and we agreed that we should deploy the heading and landmark structure as-is
Matt_King: When this change comes out next week, the test queue is going to look different
Matt_King: Right now, we have a table for JAWS and Chrome, a table for NVDA and Chrome, and a table for Safari and VoiceOver--all with headings for each
Matt_King: If you look at the new version available in the sandbox, you'll find that instead of having headings related to browser+screen reader combinations, you'll find headings for each test plan
Matt_King: If there are multiple versions of the same test plan in the test queue at the same time, under the level 2 heading, there is a button which is named for each version of the test plan and which expands with the relevant table
Matt_King: The biggest difference for testers is that because the test plan name doesn't have a column, you need to go to the actions section to find the button for "start testing"
Matt_King: Otherwise, the table is largely the same as what you're used to; it's just organized differently
Hadi: Is there a reason the name of the test plan is not a link?
Matt_King: That's because each test plan section describes multiple AT-browser combinations
Matt_King: In the future, it might be nice to have a filter like "show only test plans assigned to me"
Matt_King: Please give it a try, and be sure to share feedback on the usability in the coming weeks
APIs to support stakeholder use cases
Matt_King: Problem: We don't offer a robust way for AT vendors to integrate and maintain aria-at tests in their CI.
VoiceOver and Safari Automation
https://
Matt_King: In macOS 13, there was a "quickNavOn" setting, and the way to toggle it was the arrow keys
Matt_King: Then we added "singleLetterQuickNavOn" (and Off) and "arrowKeyQuickNavOn" (and Off) to support macOS 14
Matt_King: We kept the older setting in the JSON to continue to be compatible with macOS 13
Matt_King: in the most recent test files, we are only using the newest settings which are arrownav on/ff and letternav on/off
jugglinmike: I will submit a patch to extend the instructions for "quickNavOn" and "quickNavOff" to say something like, "when using macOS 13 and earlier"