17:00:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-at
17:00:15 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/05-aria-at-irc
17:00:22 <jugglinmike> rrsagent, make log public
17:01:16 <jugglinmike> Zakim, start the meeting
17:01:16 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:01:18 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jugglinmike
17:01:37 <jugglinmike> meeting: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group Weekly Teleconference
17:01:51 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
17:01:57 <jugglinmike> present+ hadi
17:02:03 <jugglinmike> present+ IsaDC
17:02:07 <jugglinmike> present+ howard-e
17:03:07 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria-at
17:03:16 <mmoss> mmoss has joined #aria-at
17:04:58 <howard-e> howard-e has joined #aria-at
17:05:02 <howard-e> present+
17:05:19 <jugglinmike> present+ Matt_King
17:05:27 <mmoss> present+
17:05:27 <jugglinmike> present+ mmoss
17:05:32 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
17:06:31 <jugglinmike> Topic: Review agenda and next meeting dates
17:06:34 <jugglinmike> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/June-5,-2024-Agenda
17:06:42 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Requests for changes to agenda?
17:06:48 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll keep it as-is
17:06:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Next AT Driver Subgroup meeting: Monday June 10
17:07:03 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Next community group meeting: Thursday June 13
17:07:15 <jugglinmike> Topic: Current status
17:07:22 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Goal: 6 recommended plans by June 30
17:07:33 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We're at risk in that goal, though we're making good progress
17:07:40 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: 5 plans in candidate review
17:07:55 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: three are in good shape--alert, command button, link: Approved by Vispero
17:08:14 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: As for the other two, toggle button and radio group, review is in-progress
17:08:33 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Slider and menu button are in the queue; they'll be coming up later on
17:08:45 <jugglinmike> Topic: NVDA Bot issues
17:08:53 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think everything here is resolved, but I just wanted to verify
17:10:48 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1070 seems to be resolved
17:12:00 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: I haven't had an opportunity to run anything with the NVDA bot since it was updated to the latest release of NVDA back in early May
17:12:19 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: That's because we manually corrected the problems which resulted from the use of the old versions
17:12:48 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Okay, in that case, I'll close the issue related to the version of NVDA being used by the NVDA bot
17:12:59 <jugglinmike> Topic: Check in on dialog testing
17:13:14 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Feedback: "Bump into the top edge of a modal dialog" (Modal Dialog Example, Test 8, V24.05.09) · Issue #1079 · w3c/aria-at
17:13:20 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1079
17:13:29 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: IsaDC and I have been discussing this offline
17:13:50 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I've been writing a comment regarding some of my thoughts, but I didn't have time to post that comment prior to this meeting
17:14:22 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: We're going to change the previous test--not only the nested dialog, but also bumping to the top of a "main" dialog?
17:14:31 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Yeah, we want to change both the top and the bottom.
17:14:52 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: ...but rather than taking up meeting time, I'll add the comment and we can proceed from there
17:15:24 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Conflicting JAWS results: "Close a modal dialog" Test 2 in V24.05.09 · Issue #1078 · w3c/aria-at
17:15:32 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1078
17:15:43 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It appears Hadi had an unusual experience with JAWS
17:16:12 <jugglinmike> Hadi: Yes! I tested three times, I closed the entire browser and restarted it. Nothing seems to change the outcome
17:16:28 <jugglinmike> Hadi: IsaDC didn't witness the same behavior as I did.
17:16:37 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: That's right; JAWS passed all the tests for me
17:16:53 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think we should compare the versions of JAWS and Chrome that Hadi and IsaDC are using
17:17:46 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: My browser just got updated; it's now at version 124.
17:18:04 <jugglinmike> Hadi: I don't have access to my testing machine, now, but I believe Chrome was at 125 for me
17:18:20 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Ah, yes, Chrome is at 125 for me, too.
17:18:31 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: Hadi and I are both using Windows 11
17:19:25 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: On the 13th of May, we received an update for JAWS. Hadi and I both used the previous version.
17:19:54 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: When you used default settings, do you use "insert", "space", followed by "Z"?
17:19:56 <jugglinmike> Hadi: Yes
17:20:37 <jugglinmike> Hadi: I also try to reduce the risk of other factors impacting the results: I close other processes and make the browser window full screen
17:20:48 <jugglinmike> Hadi: The only thing I change is to increase the speaking speed
17:21:03 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I just ran the test again, and I still get the same result as IsaDC
17:21:37 <jugglinmike> Hadi: I will be glad to test it again when I am in my home office. I'll let you know via e-mail whether the problem persisted
17:27:46 <jugglinmike> Hadi: Matt_King you can change my results for now. I'll test tonight, and I'll let you know what I find this time
17:28:10 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Conflicting VoiceOver test results: "Close a modal dialog" (Modal Dialog Example, Test 6, V24.05.09) · Issue #1071 · w3c/aria-at
17:28:19 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1071
17:28:28 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think we may be ready to close this
17:28:48 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There was a discussion about whether or not it should say "main"
17:28:53 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We discussed this last time
17:29:01 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: That's right, and I modified my results
17:29:39 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Great; I'll close the issue
17:29:51 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Conflicting VoiceOver test results: "Navigate to the top of a modal dialog" (Modal Dialog Example, Test 14, V24.05.09) · Issue #1072 · w3c/aria-at
17:30:04 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1072
17:30:31 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This is another VoiceOver conflict
17:30:43 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: We are fixing this. I didn't advance the test plan yet
17:30:53 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I don't think we needed test plan changes for this one
17:31:05 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: the conflict was: how should we record the fact that the cursor didn't move?
17:31:18 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I believe the resolution was that we were going to modify Joe's results
17:31:37 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It looks like Joe did that because the app no longer reports conflicts
17:31:58 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: That's right. Now, there's only the issue about bumping
17:33:27 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Bumping was a separate issue at the top of issue #1079 (we were summarizing everything related to dialog)
17:33:31 <jugglinmike> topic: Review upcoming test queue and report page changes
17:34:04 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: New test queue in sandbox https://aria-at-app-sandbox.bocoup.com/test-queue-2
17:34:21 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The test queue will change next week in some really cool ways
17:34:40 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: IsaDC and I have both looked at this, and we agreed that we should deploy the heading and landmark structure as-is
17:35:06 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: When this change comes out next week, the test queue is going to look different
17:35:31 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Right now, we have a table for JAWS and Chrome, a table for NVDA and Chrome, and a table for Safari and VoiceOver--all with headings for each
17:36:09 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: If you look at the new version available in the sandbox, you'll find that instead of having headings related to browser+screen reader combinations, you'll find headings for each test plan
17:36:59 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: If there are multiple versions of the same test plan in the test queue at the same time, under the level 2 heading, there is a button which is named for each version of the test plan and which expands with the relevant table
17:37:59 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The biggest difference for testers is that because the test plan name doesn't have a column, you need to go to the actions section to find the button for "start testing"
17:38:12 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Otherwise, the table is largely the same as what you're used to; it's just organized differently
17:38:44 <jugglinmike> Hadi: Is there a reason the name of the test plan is not a link?
17:39:14 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That's because each test plan section describes multiple AT-browser combinations
17:40:52 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: In the future, it might be nice to have a filter like "show only test plans assigned to me"
17:42:42 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Please give it a try, and be sure to share feedback on the usability in the coming weeks
17:52:02 <jugglinmike> Topic: APIs to support stakeholder use cases
17:52:17 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Problem: We don't offer a robust way for AT vendors to integrate and maintain aria-at tests in their CI.
17:55:33 <jugglinmike> scribe+ Matt_King
17:55:41 <Matt_King> TOPIC: VoiceOver and Safari Automation
17:55:49 <jugglinmike> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/blob/625a22e13bd117c4bb8f7ecdb5e97454f9e935ac/tests/support.json#L91
17:58:23 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
17:58:40 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: In macOS 13, there was a "quickNavOn" setting, and the way to toggle it was the arrow keys
17:59:14 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Then we added "singleLetterQuickNavOn" (and Off) and "arrowKeyQuickNavOn" (and Off) to support macOS 14
17:59:48 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We kept the older setting in the JSON to continue to be compatible with macOS 13
18:00:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: in the most recent test files, we are only using the newest settings which are arrownav on/ff and letternav on/off
18:02:59 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: I will submit a patch to extend the instructions for "quickNavOn" and "quickNavOff" to say something like, "when using macOS 13 and earlier"
18:03:17 <jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting
18:03:17 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, hadi, IsaDC, howard-e, Matt_King, mmoss
18:03:19 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:03:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/05-aria-at-minutes.html Zakim
18:03:27 <jugglinmike> RRSAgent, leave
18:03:27 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
18:03:27 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:03:27 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-at