14:30:38 RRSAgent has joined #coga 14:30:42 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/03-coga-irc 14:30:42 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:30:43 Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 14:31:05 regrets+ Becca, Jennie, Eric 14:31:34 agenda+ agenda+ updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc 14:31:46 scribe: Jan 14:33:16 agenda+ issue papers at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PrlyRHkxQKdiIZDQwsgbfchNgY14o0vRT3f_L7fXlxo/edit#gid=0 and the github draft is at Rawgit issues papers draft https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/issue-papers-v2/issue-papers/index.html 14:35:53 agenda+n reminders about this weeks subgroup meetings and working session on color patern 14:37:11 agenda+ suggestions for new patterns . See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#heading=h.pr256dw1yojn 14:51:36 agenda? 14:59:58 JMcSorley has joined #coga 15:00:22 scribe+ JMcSorley 15:00:48 Rain has joined #coga 15:00:53 present+ 15:01:01 next item 15:01:10 rashmi has joined #coga 15:01:51 Lisa: As a reminder, we decided we would try this month to make an editor's draft of 4 issue papers. We have a bit more time to try to get things go with the editor's draft for User Testing for Making Content Usable. 15:02:09 present+ 15:02:17 Lisa: It makes sense to get an editor's draft of the issues papers first and then the editor's draft of Making Content Usable. 15:02:25 kirkwood has joined #COGA 15:02:28 present+ Jan 15:02:43 Frankie has joined #coga 15:02:48 present+ 15:02:59 present+ 15:03:52 Lisa: We are going to spend a bit more time covering action items. We have 2 issue papers. Becca is leading one and she sent her regrets today. The other one, I need to get into GitHub. 15:04:44 Lisa: Tiffany and E.A. were going to work on a draft of symbols paper and Lisa will put it into GitHub after everyone has reviewed it. 15:05:08 Tiffany: E.A. was going to do most of the updates and I was going to review, so I will need to check with her. 15:05:27 Lisa: We need to make a decision if we're going to work on it for this draft. 15:05:54 Lisa: We also need help with search review for literary review. 15:06:12 q? 15:06:20 Lisa: We're all supposed to be doing literary reviews. If we need another working session, let me know. 15:06:41 Lisa: I have to put issue papers into GitHub. 15:07:04 Lisa: Supported Decision Making is an important one - people agreed to do a section of this paper. 15:07:08 suported decion making draft is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9N-_3l-d6t0ppZcIIZ98k00x7ZE7h3ayq0OCX9Ycu4/edit#heading=h.rhs6n8lpznbz 15:08:06 q+ 15:08:34 Lisa: We would like the Supported Decision Making to get out soon because it's so important. We pulled out some work that John had done with Jeannie on guardianship and I highlighted sections that need to be added. There are people listed in the document who were going to fill things in. If we're stuck with this, we could make a working session. 15:08:34 Would that be helpful, or can you do this independently. 15:08:56 Lisa: If you have trouble putting in references, you can just put them in an email and someone else can list them in the document. 15:09:00 ack next 15:09:38 John: That sounds reasonable. Can you generally characterize how much it has evolved since Jeannie and I worked on it. We did a lot of research, so just wondering if there have been changes. 15:10:49 Lisa: We changed if from Guardianship and expanded it to be in an issue paper format for a wide audience, not just the W3C and we changed the name to Supported Decision Making. Two sources - one out of the mental health group and the other the work that John and Jeannie did on guardianship. 15:12:08 Lisa: We had a meeting to review the Supported Decision Making document - we changed the table of contents. We moved things so that it's in a broader format so that it works as a companion for mental health or the safety issue paper, etc. 15:12:26 EA has joined #coga 15:12:38 present+ 15:12:50 Lisa: We added some structure and some content, such as "current solutions online". Most supported decision making tends to be for minors, so that is problematic. 15:14:05 Lisa: One thing we need to flesh out is that there is a lack of autonomy and there are other sections that need additional research. There are principles of decision making that needs more work and we have examples of where it can help. We have the section on legal and privacy and the section on mental health and social media. 15:14:52 Lisa: We added history to look at how guardianship has changed around the world. 15:15:52 Lisa: We all voted that we want to push this paper in - I could schedule in the next week - even during the COGA time, that people could fill in as we go. Would that be useful? 15:15:58 q? 15:16:56 John: Jeannie and I had to boil down the larger issues to how it could apply to the W3C process. So there's some research that Jeannie would understand and there's some great research that would work for the larger issue, so it would be great to have a meeting with Jeannie on this. 15:17:11 Justine has joined #coga 15:17:18 tburtin has joined #coga 15:17:28 present+ 15:17:51 Lisa: We did have a meeting with Jeannie on this. This is an issue paper for any content provider and not for the W3C. Do you (John) feel comfortable with this direction? 15:18:17 John: I feel comfortable with it, but I think we need to keep things at a high level for how it's addressed legally around the world. 15:19:10 Lisa: The legal section is relatively short, but appendix 3 is related to laws around the world, but it was move to an appendix because it's out of date. We could rewrite it and do all the work, or we could rename it to historical support around the world. 15:19:29 Frankie: What date are we trying to complete this and where in the list is this in terms of priority> 15:21:01 Lisa: I am going to open timelines - it's not the priorities that have changed, it's the order of publication. For July, we want to have a structure of the new version ready for user testing and the first editor's draft of content useable. We are also planning to have a first editor's drat of issue papers at that time. 15:21:25 Lisa: We would like to have 4 or 5. I have one up so far. 15:21:41 *4 or 5 issue papers 15:23:31 issue papers branch in github https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/issue-papers-v2/issue-papers/index.html 15:23:36 Lisa: We can publish four or five modules - this is where our papers would go. 15:24:01 Q? 15:24:43 q? 15:24:52 q+ 15:25:00 ack next 15:25:25 Frankie: We want 4-5 issue papers - is that in addition to the 3 on the cover document? 15:25:47 Lisa: The 3 are included in the 4-5 we need. 15:26:03 Frankie: What would be the next paper that would be able to be completed? 15:26:30 Lisa: No, it's not as close to being done, but it's one that we wanted to prioritize it. 15:26:54 Lisa: E.A. has joined, so we can get an update on the symbols page. 15:27:19 Lisa: The sooner we can get the Supported Decision Making into an editor's draft, the sooner we will be able to get feedback. 15:27:49 E.A. We discovered that symbolizing text by putting words above and below - in the research, this was found to not be helpful. 15:29:54 E.A The issue paper will not be changed per se - you can use the label to help find symbols for specific meanings. We have a dilemma that makes it hard to change the issue paper that will work, other than making a comment at the end. We know what the research is say and we know how good it CAN be when you put a symbol next to text, but we're not 15:29:54 sure how to close it out because of the contradictory information in the research. 15:31:08 Lisa: I can't find the google doc in our action items or in the issue paper table. 15:31:37 Lisa: The rest of the paper seems to be out of date regarding what Adapt is doing. 15:31:50 E.A. Yes, no one ever did this, but it's possible with AI. 15:33:17 Adapt 15:33:20 Lisa: It seems like we need an update. We could just not publish an update, or we could update based on the Google Doc. There's something wrong about pointing to semantics that no one is supporting when Adapt is further along. 15:34:12 Lisa: Adapt came out of personalization - it is in the APA space - after the first issue papers, we had suggestions for new syntax. We proposed it to ARIA and we made some demos and tested it and then that because the personalization group, that then became Adapt. 15:35:28 E.A. The first thing I will do is take out the experimental language that Tiffany and I did and I will put it into a new document that we can share with everyone. 15:35:55 Lisa: Yes, that will work. Then we can point to the old paper and point people to Adapt. 15:37:10 E.A. I need to get Tiffany's permission to do this because we were exploring new technologies. There is an element in the old one that is fine - the explanation of why this is needed has not changed, but technology has made great advances, so people might address this in different ways now. 15:37:35 Lisa: It's a bit of a scary thing, but let's see the issue paper and discuss it as a group. I think that's the next step. 15:37:54 Lisa: Do you agree, or do you just want to keep the three of us looking at this. 15:38:30 E.A.: I am just trying to think about the best way of sharing everything with everyone now. I will have to find a folder to share it with COGA. 15:38:49 https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1i7L_7aPkmzsZjdLo-9adKbpGpiqaxod3?usp=share_link 15:38:52 Lisa: We have a folder - if you go to useful links, and go to COGA shared drive. 15:39:18 Tiffany: It won't allow me to get to that drive - it tells me I don't have permission. 15:39:33 Rain: This is my drive. 15:39:45 Lisa: Can you add Tiffany? 15:40:15 Rain: Yes - I think we couldn't make it open to anyone who has the link because we were sharing published research papers. 15:41:06 Lisa: We need to decide if we want to include the symbol paper and update it for the July editor's draft? 15:41:58 Do we want to have an editor's draft ready to send out soon - which means we will have to push ourselves to get it into the draft in July? 15:42:14 The other decision we need to make is: Lisa: Does anyone else want a working meeting on Supported Decision Making? 15:42:41 Lisa: How do we feel about pushing in supported decision making into the editor's draft? 15:43:16 Q? 15:43:54 Symbol users with Speech, Language and Literacy Difficulties Research Tracking https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L9-Wo2a78Ahuu3Q-16iyJUY8vp0pr4GWanylj6j3q7Q/edit#heading=h.tq3x4qwxxtd2 15:44:08 Frankie: From my perspective, my time is limited in June, so I am trying to find where to spend that time. If others can focus on supported decision making, I can do that, but I won't be able to support other work in June. 15:44:52 Lisa: Can you give everyone an update on how people make changes in GitHub for Content Usable? 15:45:23 *Julie - update on putting content into GitHub 15:46:09 couldn’t ai do that? 15:46:47 Julie: Frankie and I put something together, including questions about the goal of the style guide. We need to integrate some resources we got from Lisa, but I should be able to make progress on that this week. 15:47:11 Julie: We are hoping that we can make something short enough that it will be manageable by people. 15:47:28 Lisa: Do you need Frankie's help? 15:47:44 Julie: I would love to have Frankie review what I put together? 15:47:55 Lisa: Going back to the issue paper discussion. 15:48:23 Lisa: We really do need the style guide, but if you don't think we can get a draft this week, I can try to take a stab at it. 15:49:00 Julie: It may not be applicable to this particular issue paper - the way we refer to people with disabilities - I could focus on the rest of it - everything except the disability terminolody? 15:49:17 Lisa: Yes, you can make a note that this will be addressed later. 15:50:04 Lisa: We have Supported Decision Making - Triggers is also not done. 15:50:29 Lisa: How do we feel about pushing ourselves to get Supported Decision Making into an Editor's Draft? 15:50:52 q+ 15:51:02 ack next 15:51:06 agenda? 15:51:29 next item 15:51:42 John: I am trying to get my head around the possible overlap with Getting Help and Supported Decision Making - should we combine them in some way - especially with AI coming into play. 15:51:56 Lisa: I agree that AI has a role and we need to add that to the draft. 15:51:57 julierawe has joined #coga 15:52:05 present+ 15:52:08 q+ 15:52:28 John: The second thing with the AI topic - we need to tackle the issue of being consistent in our voice - this might be an opportunity to use AI to help us with this. 15:52:50 ack next 15:53:10 Lisa: Please +1 if you feel we should try working on Supported Decision Making 15:53:34 +1 15:53:48 Frankie has joined #coga 15:54:05 +1 15:54:15 next item 15:54:21 Lisa: If you think it needs more discussion, put in a 0 if you think it should not be in the July draft, put in a -1 15:54:35 0 needs work 15:54:53 0 needs work 15:55:14 0 15:55:22 0 15:55:23 Tomorrow's AG's discussion will continue an interesting discussion about conformance. Here are the minutes from last week's AG discussion about conformance: https://www.w3.org/2024/05/28-ag-minutes.html 15:55:28 -1 needs work and more time to do that work based on availability 15:57:02 Lisa: I am not seeing consensus on the issue paper, so let's try, but if we can't get it done, then that's fine. We can look at where we are in 3 weeks. 15:57:13 John: The color thing is on Thursday, I can't make it. 15:57:48 Rain: We can do an initial pass, but it might make sense to find another time when John can join. Maybe we should cancel the Thursday call and find another time. 15:57:58 Rain: I will try to reschedule. 15:58:13 Lisa: We also wanted to find some time for doing findability. 15:58:59 Julie: We have a clear language meeting on Thursday - I put in the IRC the information about the AG discussion about conformance - it's very interesting to see some of the things their considering. 15:59:49 ag muinits: https://www.w3.org/2024/05/28-ag-minutes.html 15:59:54 present+ 15:59:59 Julie: if you go into the AG meeting from last week, they put together an interesting slide deck - I recommend tuning into tomorrow's AG meeting if you're interested in what their discussing about conformance. 16:00:40 The conformance discussion will continue at tomorrow's AG meeting, so COGA folks may want to join at 11am ET at https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag 16:03:59 present+ 16:04:21 RRSAgent, publish minutes 16:04:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/03-coga-minutes.html lisa 16:28:15 kirkwood has joined #COGA 17:12:48 kirkwood has joined #COGA 17:59:49 kirkwood has joined #COGA 19:41:57 kirkwood has joined #COGA 21:07:26 kirkwood has joined #COGA 22:20:48 kirkwood has joined #COGA 22:43:25 kirkwood has joined #COGA