IRC log of forms on 2024-05-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/31-forms-irc
13:42:37 [Steven]
rrsagent, make logs public
13:43:54 [Steven]
Meeting: XForms Weekly Teleconference
13:43:58 [Steven]
Chair: Steven
13:44:04 [Steven]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2024May/0008
13:44:16 [Steven]
Previous Meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/05/17-forms-minutes
13:44:29 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:44:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/31-forms-minutes.html Steven
13:56:52 [ebruchez_]
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13:57:28 [Alain]
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13:59:03 [Steven]
Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
14:01:07 [Steven]
Topic: Prague [Regrets for next week]
14:01:41 [Steven]
Steven: I will be at Prague, XForms tutorial, and ixml talk
14:02:02 [Steven]
Alain: I will be remote
14:02:10 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION Steven MIPs on controls
14:02:10 [Steven]
https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_2.0#Property_Attributes
14:02:20 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2024May/0010.html
14:03:20 [Steven]
Steven: Are MIPs allowed on containers as well as core controls
14:03:25 [Steven]
Erik: I think in general yes.
14:03:32 [Steven]
[Alain nods]
14:04:21 [Steven]
Erik: <group ref="..." readonly="true">
14:04:34 [Steven]
... inheritance might work differently
14:05:04 [Steven]
Steven: So I'll add it, and we can see what ramifications it has
14:05:45 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION: Steven spec text for 'initial' MIP
14:05:45 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2024May/0009.html
14:06:42 [Steven]
Erik: I agree that it is like @calculate.
14:08:12 [Steven]
... It has to happen very early.
14:08:26 [Steven]
Steven: initial and calculate bite each other.
14:09:17 [Steven]
... I assume initial happens before the first update
14:10:55 [Steven]
Erik: We do it in our implementation just before the first calculate
14:11:18 [Steven]
... right after whitespace processing.
14:13:20 [Steven]
Steven: So intiial has an ordering dependency like recalculate
14:14:16 [Steven]
Erik: Initial values are done only once; the code is in the update, with evaluation of iinitial only done on the first update.
14:14:51 [Steven]
Steven: So you treat it like a calculate, but you do it only once.
14:15:33 [Steven]
Steven: And if you have an initial and a caalculate, you do the initial before the calculate?
14:15:35 [Steven]
Erik: Yes.
14:17:08 [Steven]
Steven: Does it work if you have no <instance/> but <binds/>?
14:18:06 [Steven]
... If not, then initial will never be avaialable. If so then we have to work out if initial happens
14:18:23 [Steven]
s/avaialable/available/
14:18:41 [Steven]
Erik: We don't say that binds are disallowed...
14:20:03 [Steven]
Steven: Does that mean that initial happens on the next update?
14:20:28 [Steven]
Erik: the spec may be a bit underspecified on this point.
14:21:24 [Steven]
Steven: It sounds like we need an extra update after UI initialisation
14:21:55 [Steven]
Erik: We don't implement this bit actually
14:22:08 [Steven]
Alain: I do, but I haven't tested it with binds
14:23:36 [Steven]
Steven: Why don't we just drop the model construction from the UI?
14:23:52 [Steven]
Erik: I would support deprecating or deleting
14:23:55 [Steven]
Alain: I agree
14:26:08 [Steven]
RESOLUTION: Remove the automatic creatiion of instances during UI construct from XForms
14:26:52 [Steven]
Steven: Last question about initial on <insert/>
14:27:24 [Steven]
Erik: It can be useful.
14:27:41 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to remove auto generation of instances from spec
14:28:02 [Steven]
Topic: AOB
14:28:09 [Steven]
[None]
14:28:26 [Steven]
[Adjourn]
14:28:47 [Steven]
RRSagent, make minutes
14:28:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/31-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:29:32 [Steven]
s/creatiion/creation
14:29:56 [Steven]
s/intiial/initial/G
14:30:15 [Steven]
s/iinitial/initial/G
14:30:35 [Steven]
s/caalculate/calculate
14:31:07 [Steven]
RRSagent, make minutes
14:31:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/31-forms-minutes.html Steven
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