W3C

– DRAFT –
(MEETING TITLE)

30 May 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, Erich Bremer, EricP, Gaurav Vaidya, Jim Balhoff
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

DICOM

eric: Anytime you have a null, in programming you have to do a dance to get around it, because if Sally and Bob both have null in the birthdate predicate, you have to use a null guard in your code, to exclude the case when the value is a fhir:null sentinal.
… .But if you use a bnode, SPARQL won't treat them as the same. So that's a benefit of using a bnode for SPARQL in that case.

jim: bnode seems like a good thing, but I don't think you can have a union of a an object type and a datatype.
… We couldn't use a bnode for the null if it's a datatype property.

eric: Because in DL datatype and object properties are disjoint.
… We tend to use lists when we want to round trip, and want to use sentinal types, so the transfer representation becomes something we can't reason over.
… Because we have RDF lists, we're already outside of what works well in OWL.

jim: Could always use a bnode standoff: [ rdf:value 45 ], [ rdf:value fhir:null ].

eric: Maybe we need a transform for OWL, one optimized for query and one for inference.

eric: Already optimized more for SPARQL.

dbooth: Already going down that path.

dbooth: What do you think would be easiest to process, Erich?

erich: Interesting:

awslabs/SPARQL-CDTs

https://awslabs.github.io/SPARQL-CDTs/spec/latest.html

(Discussion about CDT)

eric: If we had a dataset with 2 graphs g1 and g2, and they shared a bnode, _:b1 , they could be written out, g1 as RDFXML and g2 as Turtle. When you parse them again, you'd tell the parser to unify the _:b1 to reconstruct the orignal dataset.

eric: There isn't a way to indicate which bnodes should be treated as the same (in the same dataset) and which shold be renamed.

erich: CDT could be used to represent all the DICOM list data. Or do it only when literal lists -- a hybrid approach.
… If this is adopted, does it replace RDF lists?

eric: If it is, it would take years for it to have traction.

erich: Anything done now cannot do CDT, because it's just a proposal. So we still need a null solution.
… Rather work w what we have today. CDT is potential future direction.
… But need something that's supported now, as a standard.
… DICOM literal lists (whcih may have nulls) are the only problem area.

dbooth: This is reminding me that the ladder of RDF lists is really the wrong way to do lists. Numeric indexes is the right way to do them.
… And they should be called arrays, not lists.
… .It's longstanding big hole in RDF.

erich: I have a DCM to RDF converter that I've used for a while. But never handled nulls.
… Plan to release it as open source, but will leave a placeholder for the null issue.

eric: We care about an RDF rather than having a bnode hidden inside a literal.

ADJOURNED

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: dbooth, eric, erich, jim

All speakers: dbooth, eric, erich, jim

Active on IRC: dbooth