12:25:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
12:25:15 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-irc
12:25:15 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:25:16 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
12:26:10 <janina> Chair:  Matthew
12:26:10 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
12:26:10 <janina> Agenda+ TPAC 2024 Planning
12:26:19 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
12:26:49 <janina> agenda+ HR A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
12:26:52 <janina> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
12:26:54 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
12:26:57 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
12:26:59 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://github.com/issues/assigned
12:27:02 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
12:27:04 <janina> agenda+ be done
12:28:54 <janina>  Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
12:29:08 <janina> Date: 29 May 2024
13:57:08 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
13:57:13 <matatk> agenda?
13:57:16 <matatk> present+
13:57:21 <matatk> present+ Matthew
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14:00:57 <JenStrickland> present+
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14:01:38 <Iali> present+
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14:02:12 <niklasegger> present+
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14:04:50 <mike_beganyi> present+
14:04:58 <NehaJ> present+
14:05:35 <Dr_Keith> I can't get into the zoom  :(
14:05:39 <Dr_Keith> present+
14:06:59 <Dr_Keith> in now :)
14:07:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #APA
14:07:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:08:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:08:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:08:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:10:23 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:10:23 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:10:23 <janina> Link to W3C Calendar on git hub ...
14:10:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
14:10:49 <janina> https://github.com/w3c/calendar/
14:11:28 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #apa
14:11:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Please file issues or let APA know if there are any issues with the calendar.
14:12:00 <Fazio> present+
14:12:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: There is a CfC open for CTAUR, please respond by midnight Boston time.
14:13:00 <janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2024May/0004.html
14:14:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> Fazio: This is Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements
14:14:17 <JenStrickland> CTAUR=Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements
14:14:31 <JenStrickland> Thanks, Lionel!
14:15:40 <Dr_Keith> https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG2AA-Conformance
14:17:53 <matatk> q?
14:18:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: +1, the info is not here https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-levels-head
14:19:01 <Dr_Keith> one more:  https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Understanding/conformance#levels
14:19:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:19:04 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC 2024 Planning -- taken up [from janina]
14:19:52 <Fazio> I looked at both links last weekend. No definition of A, AA, AA
14:20:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:20:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:20:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: We need to plan our meetings
14:20:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Need to meet with groups dealing with Media, e.g. MIG (media interest group)
14:21:27 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: The AUR (Accessibility User Requirements) series began when HTML5 kicked off
14:21:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... MAUR was the first one, invented at the time, we had coordination with Apple and other large corporations
14:21:56 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... this MAUR helped guide HTML5
14:21:56 <matatk> Digital Accessibility User Requirements: Digital Accessibility User Requirements
14:22:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... that kicked off the series of AUR
14:22:30 <matatk> Digital Accessibility User Requirements: https://www.w3.org/WAI/research/user-requirements/
14:22:54 <matatk> q?
14:23:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:23:13 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]
14:23:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
14:23:46 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
14:23:47 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:23:47 <Zakim> 4. HR A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
14:23:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:23:50 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- HR A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
14:26:22 <matatk> subtopic: Mark features that might expose accessibility tools
14:26:23 <matatk> gb, off
14:26:24 <gb> matatk, issues and names were already off.
14:26:41 <matatk> Tracking issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/194
14:28:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: There is a mark currently defined to surface the risk of fingerprinting
14:29:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... this considers having a similar signal, when there is a risk of detecting AT
14:29:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I would like to widen the discussion to considering what exactly is AT
14:29:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
14:31:29 <matatk> ack Lionel_Wolberger
14:31:33 <matatk> scribe+
14:32:13 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: this topic is of deep interest to me. There's subtle differentiation. This feels like 3 topics. Where this is born is: could the thing you're adding to the browser contribute to fingerprinting?
14:32:31 <matatk> ... e.g. if you have a unique font, that can contribute to fingerprinting.
14:32:41 <matatk> ... contributing to fingerprinting is not the same thing as detecting AT
14:33:03 <matatk> ... You (matatk) opened it up to 'what is AT?' - a wider discussion
14:33:32 <matatk> ... Finally: the browser _must_ be aware of the AT - it creates the accessibility tree and it helps the screen reader. Right now privacy protection of AT is based on handshakes all 'round.
14:33:54 <matatk> ... Google says, for example, that Chrome doesn't expose it. Browsers could though. But everyone stays away from this.
14:34:25 <matatk> ... The topic came up in our recent era because there ware ways to detect AT based on user behavior on the page. That's a distinct, 4th, topic.
14:35:06 <Fazio> q+
14:35:10 <matatk> janina: Sounds like the proposal is a badge on the spec to say it presents such a risk?
14:35:35 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: Difference between fingerprinting and behavior-based detection.
14:35:55 <matatk> ... A fingerprint is a mark you leave behind - a set pattern of the stuff you've done to it (extensions, fonts, versions, ...)
14:36:55 <matatk> ack Fazio
14:37:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> Fazio: We need to be very specific, as Lionel is indicating
14:37:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... is it as an individual, or as a disability type
14:37:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... "this browser is set up this way" is unlikely to be able to parsed into, "the user has this disability"
14:38:18 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: If it only identifies a class of users, that might be ok
14:38:30 <Lionel_Wolberger> Fazio: +1 to the label, "class of users"
14:38:34 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
14:38:39 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
14:38:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html janina
14:38:49 <Dr_Keith> we do need to read the spec.  The data can be paired with other data to be a personal identifyer and even ID of a  class of users could be something that leads to deeper issues around discrimination
14:39:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Keep in mind, if fingerprint can identify uniquely a particular browser, that is problematic enough
14:41:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:41:14 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]
14:41:30 <matatk> subtopic: HTML Ruby Markup Extensions 2024-05-23
14:41:48 <matatk> Issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/83
14:43:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Ruby is a scripting language used for "interlinear annotation... short runs of text alongside the base text". Often useful in adding accents to characters, and Asian languages. Spec, https://www.w3.org/TR/html-ruby-extensions/
14:44:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: We know some people in Japan who may be interesting in doing this review
14:46:12 <janina> regrets: Fredrik, Paul
14:47:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:47:05 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
14:48:03 <matatk> agenda?
14:48:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
14:48:07 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
14:48:07 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:48:07 <Zakim> 7. CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues [from janina]
14:48:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:48:08 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]
14:48:12 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
14:48:12 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
14:48:13 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:48:13 <Zakim> 8. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://github.com/issues/assigned [from janina]
14:48:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:48:14 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://github.com/issues/assigned -- taken up [from janina]
14:49:34 <matatk> q?
14:49:43 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
14:49:43 <Zakim> agendum 8 closed
14:49:44 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:49:44 <Zakim> 9. Other Business [from janina]
14:49:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:49:46 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina]
14:50:07 <matatk> subtopic: Adapt at TPAC
14:51:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Let's clarify the meetings that Adapt would want
14:51:22 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/240
14:52:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: On the issue of symbols, we have movement from AP that needs answering
14:54:16 <matatk> q?
14:54:24 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
14:54:24 <Zakim> agendum 9 closed
14:54:27 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:54:27 <Zakim> 10. be done [from janina]
14:54:27 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:54:28 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- be done -- taken up [from janina]
14:54:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:55:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, end meeting
14:55:23 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been matatk, Matthew, JenStrickland, Iali, niklasegger, mike_beganyi, NehaJ, Dr_Keith, Lionel_Wolberger, Fazio
14:55:25 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:55:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html Zakim
14:55:32 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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