14:02:49 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 14:02:53 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-irc 14:03:25 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1 14:03:44 luca_barbato has joined #wot-td 14:03:54 chair: Ege, Koster 14:04:26 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Jan_Romann, Daniel_Peintner, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato 14:04:30 dape has joined #wot-td 14:04:56 present+ Mahda_Noura 14:04:59 rrsagent, make log public 14:05:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:05:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:05:17 q+ 14:05:31 q- 14:06:13 mahda2 has joined #wot-td 14:06:24 present+ Mahda_Noura 14:07:17 scribenick: JKRhb 14:07:21 cris has joined #wot-td 14:08:37 topic: Agenda Review 14:08:49 ek: Today's agenda is mostly about errata fixes 14:09:03 ... a report from the sub-taskforce regarding LinkML 14:09:26 ... will report on Binding Note publication and discuss project management 14:09:33 topic: Minutes Review 14:09:49 ek: Already went through them, looked good to me, does anyone have remarks? 14:09:57 ... everyone should have received the minutes 14:10:06 ... not hearing anything, minutes are approved 14:10:07 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#May_22_and_23_2024 14:10:20 topic: Regrets 14:10:40 i|Alre|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-wot-td-minutes.html May-15| 14:10:51 ek: Next week on Thursday, I cannot join, but my Wednesdays have been converted back to normal workdays 14:10:57 topic: Errata 14:11:13 ek: There are some errata fixes which we can merge today 14:11:37 ... Discovery and @@@ are probably going to be merged in the main call, as the calls are not happening at the moment 14:11:47 ... (shows the diff of PR 2023) 14:11:58 ... the main thing I did was to remove javascript 14:12:07 ... removing the script did not do anything bad 14:12:18 ... also removed some attributes from HTML tags 14:12:31 ... could be incorporated into the workflow 14:12:54 i|There are|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2023 PR 2023 - Fixes to Errata Documents| 14:12:55 ... this was for Errata 1.1, I applied the fixes to the 1.0 version 14:13:25 ... there was also some obsolete content that I removed that was not applicable to us 14:13:32 s/@@@/Architecture/ 14:13:55 ... (shows the rendered version) 14:14:13 ... the script I removed does not do anything unexpected, the rendered version looks the same as before 14:14:42 ... (shows the previous version and the new one side-by-side to illustrate that there no changes to result) 14:15:25 ... just noticed that there is one thing that has changed (a missing link) and the table of contents has disappeared 14:15:35 q+ 14:15:36 ... not sure if it is that important, though 14:15:40 q+ 14:15:45 ... that is something that could also be added manually 14:15:57 dp: I don't think the table of contents is needed 14:16:04 ack dape 14:16:06 ... the whole page should be rather short anyway 14:16:12 kaz: I agree 14:16:30 ... given that the content is short enough, we don't need to put the table of contents or the sections numbers 14:16:52 ... by the way, you plan to add links to all the errata contents, right? 14:17:01 ek: Yeah 14:17:32 ... just noticed that we can also update the date 14:17:41 ... and that we can update the errata count 14:17:51 q+ 14:17:55 ack k 14:18:00 ... and copy-paste the submission text 14:18:11 ... (edits the PR description) 14:18:30 dp: Maybe it would make sense to add short how-to on how to add a new entry to the errata 14:18:41 ek: You mean for the editor of the document, right? 14:19:09 dp: Yes, if it is just the date it is not that important, but if there is more than instructions would be usefule 14:19:23 ek: I will add that information to the document itself 14:19:29 s/usefule/useful/ 14:19:51 ... (adds that to the PR description) 14:20:03 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:20:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb 14:20:13 q? 14:20:17 ack dape 14:20:40 ek: I will work on that and then the next time, the documents will be in a better shape 14:20:58 ... then the next time, we can actually discuss the policies in the main call 14:21:18 topic: Tooling Sub-TF 14:21:34 ek: Today we met with five people before the TD call 14:21:41 kaz has joined #wot-td 14:21:44 ... we have a dedicated repository we are working in 14:21:57 ...where there are draft PRs coming improving the automation 14:22:17 ... so far the README and the project structure have been updated by Mahda 14:22:41 ... her idea is to have a central file that can be used for generating the tables in the TD spec 14:23:07 ... then in an index.template.html file, we can have the additional text that accompanies the tables 14:23:24 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp/tree/main/resources resources area within the wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp repo 14:23:30 ... there were some JSON Schema issues that we still need to investigate furhter 14:23:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:23:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:23:51 chair- Koster 14:23:51 regrets+ Koster 14:23:53 ... we meet 30 minutes before the first TD call under the same Zoom link, if anyone wants to join 14:24:04 topic: Binding Templates 14:24:23 ek: There was a resolution on publication in the main call 14:24:56 ... we merged one PR by Daniel improving the contrast in one image 14:25:07 ... with that the remaining issue has been fixes 14:25:23 ... we still need to update the changelog, right Kaz? 14:25:29 s/fixes/fixed/ 14:25:52 ... after the main call, however, I mentioned that this point is not valid anymore, but I can still send an email 14:26:23 kaz: Technically, we should have sent the reminder before the resolution, but since we have already made it, we can simply go ahead 14:26:55 ek: We can then start preparing the document 14:27:01 ... creates an issue for that task 14:27:12 s/creates an issue for that task/(creates an issue for that task)/ 14:27:40 ... (adds it to the "in progress" column in the TD project) 14:27:45 i|Techni|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/364 Issue 364 - Figure Improvement and minor bug| 14:27:52 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:27:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:27:59 ... creating the static files can be done until next week 14:28:06 topic: TD Project/Backlog 14:28:24 ek: Here, we can have a look into what has been happening during week 14:28:34 ... there are two topics 14:28:48 ... one is looking into the issues that have been worked on 14:29:09 ... the other one is looking into one of the big issues, as discussed with Michael Koster 14:29:13 i|There was a|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-minutes.html#r02 Main call resolution for Binding Templates publication| 14:29:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:29:17 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:29:48 ... the big topic we could discuss is "Reusable Connections" 14:30:06 ... but first we should look into the project 14:30:12 subtopic: PR 2017 14:30:17 i|Here, we|-> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/80/views/1 WoT TD Project| 14:30:18 q+ 14:30:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:30:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:30:41 ek: This one can be merged, after the unwanted changes have been resolved 14:31:01 ca: Not sure why these changes were appearing, fixed them manually on my machine 14:31:02 ack c 14:31:12 ek: Will explain shortly why they were happening 14:31:22 PR is merged 14:31:37 subtopic: PR 2018 14:31:44 i|This one can|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2017 PR 2017 - Add README for json-ld files| 14:31:57 ek: There has been an interesting discussion here that would be interesting for everyone 14:32:10 ... regarding best practices 14:32:31 i|There has|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2018 PR 2018 - Add text regarding choosing between events and observable properties| 14:32:37 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:32:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:32:45 ... I had a short discussion with Jan here, so he is adding a sort of best practice, which we have in multiple places 14:32:58 ... would be nice to have a single place to put this information 14:33:31 ... the text itself in the PR is regarding the use of events vs observable properties 14:33:43 ... he asked where the best place to put this 14:34:18 ... I think we could have some way of collecting this information from across the document and then give this information to developers as a guideline 14:34:54 ... seeing no one in the queue at the moment, I will add a separate issue for that as a reminder to revisit this 14:35:04 ... (creates issue 2024) 14:35:32 ... the PR itself can be merged then 14:36:11 jr: Will rebase/clean up the diff 14:36:22 ek: Then we can merge it asynchronously afterward 14:36:37 subtopic: PR 2021 14:36:58 ek: This PR addresses the issues Cristiano was experiencing in his PR 14:37:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:37:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:37:52 i|This PR add|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2021 PR 2021 - Generating index.html| 14:37:55 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:37:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:38:03 ... so the issue was here that the template was not formatted before rendering but then the index.html did not get formatted 14:38:16 ... causing the "ghost changes" 14:38:39 ca: That explains the issue, but maybe we can find a cleaner solution 14:38:54 +1 14:39:09 ek: I will do the changes to fix this, changing the prettier config and GitHub Action, as also noted by Daniel 14:39:39 ... that will provide a clean fix. Afterward, we can merge the PR asynchronously 14:39:48 ... (adds a comment to the PR) 14:39:54 subtopic: PR 365 14:40:23 ek: This PR updates the README.md with the template created by the marketing TF 14:40:35 ... now contains links and information regarding tooling 14:40:45 ... if there are no objections then I will merge this 14:41:25 subtopic: Issue 1972 14:41:38 ek: Mahda and I have been discussing this in the office 14:42:00 mn: The thing is that some while ago that there was an issue from someone regarding the SHACL shapes 14:42:23 ... the issue that the id in the shapes is defined as a language strings 14:42:40 ... which causes the validation to fail if the string is empty 14:43:15 ... in the SHACLE shape I added a fix that accepts both regular and language strings, but there is a bug in the tooling that causes the validation to fail 14:43:59 s/SHACLE/SHACL/ 14:44:25 ... so the SHACL is correct but the tool cannot deal with it 14:44:46 ... I also noticed that Cristiano did a lot of work on this a year ago 14:45:18 i|Mahda and I| https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1972 Issue 1972 - unwanted any type for title| 14:45:22 ca: There was an issue with the differentiation between single values and arrays, if I remember correctly 14:46:03 ... maybe it is better to have correct SHACL, even if we have to sacrifice a bit on the tooling. At the moment, it is also a good opportunity to refactor 14:46:23 mn: The title is also an "any type" at the moment 14:46:34 i|This PR updates|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/365 wot-binding-templates PR 365 - Align Readme| 14:46:46 ca: Maybe we can a workaround for the moment and then solve it for good with the new tooling 14:47:03 ... I will check what I did in my PR I did a while ago 14:47:14 ... and then report back to you 14:47:40 mn: In one discussion recently, you actually provided a link, will try to find it 14:47:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:47:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb 14:48:14 ... I will ping you, Ege, once I find it, so you can update your comment in the PR 14:48:42 ek: I will assign both Cristiano and Mahda for this issue 14:48:53 mn: I just pasted the link in the chat for you, Ege 14:49:47 ek: Then let's see how we can deal with this issue, if it is going to be a "dirty fix", then that should be fine 14:50:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:50:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:50:36 topic: Reusable Connections 14:50:48 ek: We probably don't have enough time for this issue 14:50:55 ... but we can have a brief look 14:51:17 ... the idea here is that you can avoid repetition 14:51:38 ... so we have the base, but it is a bit annoying that you need to repeat other stuff 14:51:51 ... for example the default content-type 14:52:12 ... so, in Modbus you always need to repeat the content-type 14:52:41 ... or in WebSockets you also need to provide the details of how the connection should be set up 14:52:42 https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md#reusable-connections 14:52:58 ... all of that is mentioned in the document linked above 14:53:19 ... as everybody can see, there are issues linked in the document that started this overarching issue 14:53:30 ... still, it is probably at the easier side of things here 14:53:43 ... any opinions so far? 14:53:55 q+ 14:54:15 ca: Definitely good to start working on this, not opposing 14:54:43 ... however, I would say there is a subtle difference between reusable connections and avoiding repetitions in a TD 14:55:04 ... so connection reuse has a greater impact than templating 14:55:11 ack c 14:55:17 ... just to keep that in mind when we are discussion this 14:55:52 ek: I agree, the different bullet points mentioned in the document have different weight/semantics 14:56:08 ca: Yeah, but that is probably also just an implementation detail 14:56:14 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:56:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:56:23 ... did we already discuss how we should tackle this issue? 14:56:45 ek: Brain storming should happen here, then we can start with concrete proposals 14:56:55 q+ 14:56:59 ... maybe we should create a big issue to collect all of the ideas 14:57:18 ... and then close the other issues that are currently linked 14:57:50 ca: As you suggested, maybe we can reserve 30 minutes the next time to clear waters here 14:58:36 dp: Maybe a minor point, but maybe we can also mention "initial connections" in the title, since I had to read the text itself to realize that this is also included in this topic 14:59:11 ek: Sounds good. We should then reserve some time to talk about this issue 14:59:18 topic: AOB 14:59:22 None 14:59:26 [adjourned] 14:59:35 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:59:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz