IRC log of wot-td on 2024-05-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:02:49 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wot-td

14:02:53 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-irc

14:03:25 [kaz]

meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1

14:03:44 [luca_barbato]

luca_barbato has joined #wot-td

14:03:54 [kaz]

chair: Ege, Koster

14:04:26 [kaz]

present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Jan_Romann, Daniel_Peintner, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato

14:04:30 [dape]

dape has joined #wot-td

14:04:56 [kaz]

present+ Mahda_Noura

14:04:59 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

14:05:08 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:05:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:05:17 [kaz]

q+

14:05:31 [kaz]

q-

14:06:13 [mahda2]

mahda2 has joined #wot-td

14:06:24 [mahda2]

present+ Mahda_Noura

14:07:17 [JKRhb]

scribenick: JKRhb

14:07:21 [cris]

cris has joined #wot-td

14:08:37 [JKRhb]

topic: Agenda Review

14:08:49 [JKRhb]

ek: Today's agenda is mostly about errata fixes

14:09:03 [JKRhb]

... a report from the sub-taskforce regarding LinkML

14:09:26 [JKRhb]

... will report on Binding Note publication and discuss project management

14:09:33 [JKRhb]

topic: Minutes Review

14:09:49 [JKRhb]

ek: Already went through them, looked good to me, does anyone have remarks?

14:09:57 [JKRhb]

... everyone should have received the minutes

14:10:06 [JKRhb]

... not hearing anything, minutes are approved

14:10:07 [kaz]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#May_22_and_23_2024

14:10:20 [JKRhb]

topic: Regrets

14:10:40 [kaz]

i|Alre|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-wot-td-minutes.html May-15|

14:10:51 [JKRhb]

ek: Next week on Thursday, I cannot join, but my Wednesdays have been converted back to normal workdays

14:10:57 [JKRhb]

topic: Errata

14:11:13 [JKRhb]

ek: There are some errata fixes which we can merge today

14:11:37 [JKRhb]

... Discovery and @@@ are probably going to be merged in the main call, as the calls are not happening at the moment

14:11:47 [JKRhb]

... (shows the diff of PR 2023)

14:11:58 [JKRhb]

... the main thing I did was to remove javascript

14:12:07 [JKRhb]

... removing the script did not do anything bad

14:12:18 [JKRhb]

... also removed some attributes from HTML tags

14:12:31 [JKRhb]

... could be incorporated into the workflow

14:12:54 [kaz]

i|There are|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2023 PR 2023 - Fixes to Errata Documents|

14:12:55 [JKRhb]

... this was for Errata 1.1, I applied the fixes to the 1.0 version

14:13:25 [JKRhb]

... there was also some obsolete content that I removed that was not applicable to us

14:13:32 [kaz]

s/@@@/Architecture/

14:13:55 [JKRhb]

... (shows the rendered version)

14:14:13 [JKRhb]

... the script I removed does not do anything unexpected, the rendered version looks the same as before

14:14:42 [JKRhb]

... (shows the previous version and the new one side-by-side to illustrate that there no changes to result)

14:15:25 [JKRhb]

... just noticed that there is one thing that has changed (a missing link) and the table of contents has disappeared

14:15:35 [dape]

q+

14:15:36 [JKRhb]

... not sure if it is that important, though

14:15:40 [kaz]

q+

14:15:45 [JKRhb]

... that is something that could also be added manually

14:15:57 [JKRhb]

dp: I don't think the table of contents is needed

14:16:04 [dape]

ack dape

14:16:06 [JKRhb]

... the whole page should be rather short anyway

14:16:12 [JKRhb]

kaz: I agree

14:16:30 [JKRhb]

... given that the content is short enough, we don't need to put the table of contents or the sections numbers

14:16:52 [JKRhb]

... by the way, you plan to add links to all the errata contents, right?

14:17:01 [JKRhb]

ek: Yeah

14:17:32 [JKRhb]

... just noticed that we can also update the date

14:17:41 [JKRhb]

... and that we can update the errata count

14:17:51 [dape]

q+

14:17:55 [kaz]

ack k

14:18:00 [JKRhb]

... and copy-paste the submission text

14:18:11 [JKRhb]

... (edits the PR description)

14:18:30 [JKRhb]

dp: Maybe it would make sense to add short how-to on how to add a new entry to the errata

14:18:41 [JKRhb]

ek: You mean for the editor of the document, right?

14:19:09 [JKRhb]

dp: Yes, if it is just the date it is not that important, but if there is more than instructions would be usefule

14:19:23 [JKRhb]

ek: I will add that information to the document itself

14:19:29 [JKRhb]

s/usefule/useful/

14:19:51 [JKRhb]

... (adds that to the PR description)

14:20:03 [JKRhb]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:20:05 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb

14:20:13 [dape]

q?

14:20:17 [dape]

ack dape

14:20:40 [JKRhb]

ek: I will work on that and then the next time, the documents will be in a better shape

14:20:58 [JKRhb]

... then the next time, we can actually discuss the policies in the main call

14:21:18 [JKRhb]

topic: Tooling Sub-TF

14:21:34 [JKRhb]

ek: Today we met with five people before the TD call

14:21:41 [kaz]

kaz has joined #wot-td

14:21:44 [JKRhb]

... we have a dedicated repository we are working in

14:21:57 [JKRhb]

...where there are draft PRs coming improving the automation

14:22:17 [JKRhb]

... so far the README and the project structure have been updated by Mahda

14:22:41 [JKRhb]

... her idea is to have a central file that can be used for generating the tables in the TD spec

14:23:07 [JKRhb]

... then in an index.template.html file, we can have the additional text that accompanies the tables

14:23:24 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp/tree/main/resources resources area within the wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp repo

14:23:30 [JKRhb]

... there were some JSON Schema issues that we still need to investigate furhter

14:23:31 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:23:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:23:51 [kaz]

chair- Koster

14:23:51 [kaz]

regrets+ Koster

14:23:53 [JKRhb]

... we meet 30 minutes before the first TD call under the same Zoom link, if anyone wants to join

14:24:04 [JKRhb]

topic: Binding Templates

14:24:23 [JKRhb]

ek: There was a resolution on publication in the main call

14:24:56 [JKRhb]

... we merged one PR by Daniel improving the contrast in one image

14:25:07 [JKRhb]

... with that the remaining issue has been fixes

14:25:23 [JKRhb]

... we still need to update the changelog, right Kaz?

14:25:29 [JKRhb]

s/fixes/fixed/

14:25:52 [JKRhb]

... after the main call, however, I mentioned that this point is not valid anymore, but I can still send an email

14:26:23 [JKRhb]

kaz: Technically, we should have sent the reminder before the resolution, but since we have already made it, we can simply go ahead

14:26:55 [JKRhb]

ek: We can then start preparing the document

14:27:01 [JKRhb]

... creates an issue for that task

14:27:12 [JKRhb]

s/creates an issue for that task/(creates an issue for that task)/

14:27:40 [JKRhb]

... (adds it to the "in progress" column in the TD project)

14:27:45 [kaz]

i|Techni|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/364 Issue 364 - Figure Improvement and minor bug|

14:27:52 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:27:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:27:59 [JKRhb]

... creating the static files can be done until next week

14:28:06 [JKRhb]

topic: TD Project/Backlog

14:28:24 [JKRhb]

ek: Here, we can have a look into what has been happening during week

14:28:34 [JKRhb]

... there are two topics

14:28:48 [JKRhb]

... one is looking into the issues that have been worked on

14:29:09 [JKRhb]

... the other one is looking into one of the big issues, as discussed with Michael Koster

14:29:13 [kaz]

i|There was a|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-minutes.html#r02 Main call resolution for Binding Templates publication|

14:29:15 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:29:17 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:29:48 [JKRhb]

... the big topic we could discuss is "Reusable Connections"

14:30:06 [JKRhb]

... but first we should look into the project

14:30:12 [JKRhb]

subtopic: PR 2017

14:30:17 [kaz]

i|Here, we|-> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/80/views/1 WoT TD Project|

14:30:18 [cris]

q+

14:30:18 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:30:20 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:30:41 [JKRhb]

ek: This one can be merged, after the unwanted changes have been resolved

14:31:01 [JKRhb]

ca: Not sure why these changes were appearing, fixed them manually on my machine

14:31:02 [cris]

ack c

14:31:12 [JKRhb]

ek: Will explain shortly why they were happening

14:31:22 [JKRhb]

PR is merged

14:31:37 [JKRhb]

subtopic: PR 2018

14:31:44 [kaz]

i|This one can|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2017 PR 2017 - Add README for json-ld files|

14:31:57 [JKRhb]

ek: There has been an interesting discussion here that would be interesting for everyone

14:32:10 [JKRhb]

... regarding best practices

14:32:31 [kaz]

i|There has|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2018 PR 2018 - Add text regarding choosing between events and observable properties|

14:32:37 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:32:38 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:32:45 [JKRhb]

... I had a short discussion with Jan here, so he is adding a sort of best practice, which we have in multiple places

14:32:58 [JKRhb]

... would be nice to have a single place to put this information

14:33:31 [JKRhb]

... the text itself in the PR is regarding the use of events vs observable properties

14:33:43 [JKRhb]

... he asked where the best place to put this

14:34:18 [JKRhb]

... I think we could have some way of collecting this information from across the document and then give this information to developers as a guideline

14:34:54 [JKRhb]

... seeing no one in the queue at the moment, I will add a separate issue for that as a reminder to revisit this

14:35:04 [JKRhb]

... (creates issue 2024)

14:35:32 [JKRhb]

... the PR itself can be merged then

14:36:11 [JKRhb]

jr: Will rebase/clean up the diff

14:36:22 [JKRhb]

ek: Then we can merge it asynchronously afterward

14:36:37 [JKRhb]

subtopic: PR 2021

14:36:58 [JKRhb]

ek: This PR addresses the issues Cristiano was experiencing in his PR

14:37:24 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:37:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:37:52 [kaz]

i|This PR add|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2021 PR 2021 - Generating index.html|

14:37:55 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:37:56 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:38:03 [JKRhb]

... so the issue was here that the template was not formatted before rendering but then the index.html did not get formatted

14:38:16 [JKRhb]

... causing the "ghost changes"

14:38:39 [JKRhb]

ca: That explains the issue, but maybe we can find a cleaner solution

14:38:54 [cris]

+1

14:39:09 [JKRhb]

ek: I will do the changes to fix this, changing the prettier config and GitHub Action, as also noted by Daniel

14:39:39 [JKRhb]

... that will provide a clean fix. Afterward, we can merge the PR asynchronously

14:39:48 [JKRhb]

... (adds a comment to the PR)

14:39:54 [JKRhb]

subtopic: PR 365

14:40:23 [JKRhb]

ek: This PR updates the README.md with the template created by the marketing TF

14:40:35 [JKRhb]

... now contains links and information regarding tooling

14:40:45 [JKRhb]

... if there are no objections then I will merge this

14:41:25 [JKRhb]

subtopic: Issue 1972

14:41:38 [JKRhb]

ek: Mahda and I have been discussing this in the office

14:42:00 [JKRhb]

mn: The thing is that some while ago that there was an issue from someone regarding the SHACL shapes

14:42:23 [JKRhb]

... the issue that the id in the shapes is defined as a language strings

14:42:40 [JKRhb]

... which causes the validation to fail if the string is empty

14:43:15 [JKRhb]

... in the SHACLE shape I added a fix that accepts both regular and language strings, but there is a bug in the tooling that causes the validation to fail

14:43:59 [JKRhb]

s/SHACLE/SHACL/

14:44:25 [JKRhb]

... so the SHACL is correct but the tool cannot deal with it

14:44:46 [JKRhb]

... I also noticed that Cristiano did a lot of work on this a year ago

14:45:18 [kaz]

i|Mahda and I| https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1972 Issue 1972 - unwanted any type for title|

14:45:22 [JKRhb]

ca: There was an issue with the differentiation between single values and arrays, if I remember correctly

14:46:03 [JKRhb]

... maybe it is better to have correct SHACL, even if we have to sacrifice a bit on the tooling. At the moment, it is also a good opportunity to refactor

14:46:23 [JKRhb]

mn: The title is also an "any type" at the moment

14:46:34 [kaz]

i|This PR updates|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/365 wot-binding-templates PR 365 - Align Readme|

14:46:46 [JKRhb]

ca: Maybe we can a workaround for the moment and then solve it for good with the new tooling

14:47:03 [JKRhb]

... I will check what I did in my PR I did a while ago

14:47:14 [JKRhb]

... and then report back to you

14:47:40 [JKRhb]

mn: In one discussion recently, you actually provided a link, will try to find it

14:47:57 [JKRhb]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:47:58 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb

14:48:14 [JKRhb]

... I will ping you, Ege, once I find it, so you can update your comment in the PR

14:48:42 [JKRhb]

ek: I will assign both Cristiano and Mahda for this issue

14:48:53 [JKRhb]

mn: I just pasted the link in the chat for you, Ege

14:49:47 [JKRhb]

ek: Then let's see how we can deal with this issue, if it is going to be a "dirty fix", then that should be fine

14:50:18 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:50:19 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:50:36 [JKRhb]

topic: Reusable Connections

14:50:48 [JKRhb]

ek: We probably don't have enough time for this issue

14:50:55 [JKRhb]

... but we can have a brief look

14:51:17 [JKRhb]

... the idea here is that you can avoid repetition

14:51:38 [JKRhb]

... so we have the base, but it is a bit annoying that you need to repeat other stuff

14:51:51 [JKRhb]

... for example the default content-type

14:52:12 [JKRhb]

... so, in Modbus you always need to repeat the content-type

14:52:41 [JKRhb]

... or in WebSockets you also need to provide the details of how the connection should be set up

14:52:42 [Ege]

https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/ThingDescription/td-next-work-items/usability-and-design.md#reusable-connections

14:52:58 [JKRhb]

... all of that is mentioned in the document linked above

14:53:19 [JKRhb]

... as everybody can see, there are issues linked in the document that started this overarching issue

14:53:30 [JKRhb]

... still, it is probably at the easier side of things here

14:53:43 [JKRhb]

... any opinions so far?

14:53:55 [cris]

q+

14:54:15 [JKRhb]

ca: Definitely good to start working on this, not opposing

14:54:43 [JKRhb]

... however, I would say there is a subtle difference between reusable connections and avoiding repetitions in a TD

14:55:04 [JKRhb]

... so connection reuse has a greater impact than templating

14:55:11 [cris]

ack c

14:55:17 [JKRhb]

... just to keep that in mind when we are discussion this

14:55:52 [JKRhb]

ek: I agree, the different bullet points mentioned in the document have different weight/semantics

14:56:08 [JKRhb]

ca: Yeah, but that is probably also just an implementation detail

14:56:14 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:56:16 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:56:23 [JKRhb]

... did we already discuss how we should tackle this issue?

14:56:45 [JKRhb]

ek: Brain storming should happen here, then we can start with concrete proposals

14:56:55 [dape]

q+

14:56:59 [JKRhb]

... maybe we should create a big issue to collect all of the ideas

14:57:18 [JKRhb]

... and then close the other issues that are currently linked

14:57:50 [JKRhb]

ca: As you suggested, maybe we can reserve 30 minutes the next time to clear waters here

14:58:36 [JKRhb]

dp: Maybe a minor point, but maybe we can also mention "initial connections" in the title, since I had to read the text itself to realize that this is also included in this topic

14:59:11 [JKRhb]

ek: Sounds good. We should then reserve some time to talk about this issue

14:59:18 [JKRhb]

topic: AOB

14:59:22 [JKRhb]

None

14:59:26 [JKRhb]

[adjourned]

14:59:35 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:59:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz