13:00:21 RRSAgent has joined #matf 13:00:25 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-matf-irc 13:00:25 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:00:26 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ 13:00:34 Zakim, this is MATF 15 May 2024 13:00:34 got it, JJ 13:01:23 agenda+ Github for Success Criteria 13:01:36 audrey has joined #matf 13:01:50 Carolina has joined #MATF 13:02:05 present+ 13:02:06 Karla has joined #matf 13:02:07 zakim, agenda? 13:02:07 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 13:02:08 1. 1.4.10 Reflow [from JJ] 13:02:08 2. 1.4.12 Text Spacing [from JJ] 13:02:08 3. 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus [from JJ] 13:02:08 4. 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks [from JJ] 13:02:09 5. Github for Success Criteria [from JJ] 13:02:14 julianmka has joined #MATF 13:02:17 Zakim, clear agenda 13:02:17 agenda cleared 13:02:20 present+ 13:02:21 zakim, agenda? 13:02:21 I see nothing on the agenda 13:02:23 present+ 13:02:25 agenda+ Github for Success Criteria 13:02:30 present+ 13:02:32 agenda+ 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus 13:02:34 Mick has joined #MATF 13:02:40 agenda+ 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks 13:02:45 agenda+ 2.4.5 Multiple Ways 13:02:46 present+ 13:02:46 present+ 13:02:53 zakim, agenda? 13:02:53 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 13:02:54 1. Github for Success Criteria [from JJ] 13:02:54 2. 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus [from JJ] 13:02:54 3. 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks [from JJ] 13:02:54 4. 2.4.5 Multiple Ways [from JJ] 13:04:29 scribe: Mick 13:04:58 present+ 13:05:30 move to next agendum 13:05:30 agendum 1 -- Github for Success Criteria -- taken up [from JJ] 13:06:40 JJ: Set up Github for Success Criteria. Sharing setup. 13:06:40 Repository named MATF. 13:07:14 AlainVagner has joined #matf 13:07:19 JJ: Holds file for list of files for WCAG level A to map. 13:07:56 JJ: On the left hand side we have the markdown and on the right is on the rendered page. 13:08:40 JJ: Documenting insights for all the success criteria we have done so far. 13:09:00 q+ 13:10:19 Joe_Humbert: Question - will this appear in the content for each page? Should this be a GitHub issue and what we draft for mapping should be on the page instead? That's what is done in the AWG. 13:10:46 Joe_Humbert - that way we're not having direct conversations in the files. 13:11:26 JJ: Good point. Will look into other repositories. 13:11:36 Devanshu has joined #matf 13:11:46 present+ 13:12:47 hdv: I like GitHub, quite use to it. Some people find hard to work with, hit and miss. This way is quite flexible. This is what accessibility and performance task force is working. 13:13:10 https://www.w3.org/WAI/ also has all of its content in Markdown files on GitHub 13:13:49 JJ: GitHub issues could be a way for to replace the comments in the excel 13:13:59 q+ 13:14:05 q+ 13:14:13 q- 13:14:30 hdv: We can use issues for these meetings as well. 13:15:16 ack me 13:15:19 ack j 13:15:56 [the github bot I mentioned lives here https://github.com/dbaron/wgmeeting-github-ircbot/ ] 13:17:16 Joe_Humbert - happy to create issues from comments over the next few weeks. 13:18:21 [example of automatically posted minutes https://github.com/openui/open-ui/issues/959#issuecomment-1834438876] 13:18:23 move to next agendum 13:18:23 agendum 2 -- 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus -- taken up [from JJ] 13:20:32 JJ: Interesting thing here is how we match pointer hover to apps when the main input is touch. Keyboard focus is less common and customizable on apps. 13:20:59 JJ: So far we've it as No as applicable to mobile web and mobile native. 13:21:22 Jamers has joined #MATF 13:21:30 present+ 13:21:48 JJ: Comment from Joe on the sheet: There is a long press gesture on both iOS and Android. This could become the equivalent of "hover". Apple did have 3D touch at one time, but abandoned it. They still control the IP for 3D touch so it could be used again 13:22:49 JJ: Should we say it's not applicable or it can be applicable with some adaptations? 13:23:04 q+ 13:23:37 audrey: I think it is still applicable with adaptations. I think it deserves some research in where it can be applicable and tested 13:25:07 github-bot has joined #matf 13:25:42 JJ: Would people agree that long press is equivalent to hover. 13:26:12 audrey: Not sure if they're the same - long press is more I want to show something than hover. 13:26:23 +1 to Audrey 13:26:40 ack julianmka 13:27:17 +1 to research and use cases across platforms 13:27:45 q+ 13:27:55 julianmka: I think there is a lot of similarity between what is revealed on long press and what is revealed on hover. 13:28:05 q+ 13:28:17 ack Devanshu 13:28:23 JJ: In web hover is usually to reveal tooltips, long press is usually to do an action. 13:29:49 Devanshu: Touch exploration setting should be explored. 13:30:40 ack Jamers 13:31:24 q= 13:31:29 q+ 13:32:04 Jamers: Has anyone tested tooltips on mobile web ? if that's a similar functionality with long press that is something worth thinking about 13:32:13 ack Joe_Humbert 13:33:17 Joe_Humbert: In my company, for tooltips nothing appears on hover on focus, it has to be on tap or via keyboard key. 13:34:00 JJ: Perhaps we say "Yes" for applicable to mobile web. 13:34:12 github-bot has joined #matf 13:34:12 Jamers has joined #matf 13:34:12 Devanshu has joined #matf 13:34:12 AlainVagner has joined #matf 13:34:12 Mick has joined #matf 13:34:12 julianmka has joined #matf 13:34:12 Karla has joined #matf 13:34:12 Carolina has joined #matf 13:34:12 audrey has joined #matf 13:34:12 JJ has joined #matf 13:34:12 Joe_Humbert has joined #matf 13:34:41 JJ: Anyone connected there mouse to mobile device 13:34:46 Q+ 13:35:11 Jamers: Yes, not sure how common the use case is for this as you've to put on accessible touch at the same time. 13:35:24 correction: assistive touch 13:35:40 JJ has joined #matf 13:35:50 s/accessible/assistive 13:35:52 Joe_Humbert: I've tried using a mouse in the past but it wouldn't work - without assistive touch 13:36:02 Thanks Jamers 13:36:02 present+ 13:36:35 Jamers: Works with assistive touch. 13:36:40 q- 13:37:41 JJ has joined #matf 13:37:41 github-bot has joined #matf 13:37:41 Jamers has joined #matf 13:37:41 Devanshu has joined #matf 13:37:41 AlainVagner has joined #matf 13:37:41 Mick has joined #matf 13:37:41 julianmka has joined #matf 13:37:41 Karla has joined #matf 13:37:41 Carolina has joined #matf 13:37:41 audrey has joined #matf 13:37:41 Joe_Humbert has joined #matf 13:37:46 JJ: Be interesting if anyone can research long press versus hover for the next meeting. 13:38:03 move to next agendum 13:38:03 agendum 3 -- 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks -- taken up [from JJ] 13:38:31 JJ: This is also an exception in section 508 and EN standards 13:39:44 JJ: Yes for applicable to mobile web, and Yes but different to web for applicable to mobile native. 13:40:13 JJ: Note from Joe: semantic markup, navigation methods (screen reader). We would need to push on google to provide better keyboard support a la iOS full keyboard access 13:40:22 q+ 13:40:42 JJ: Note form Alain: Should we also mention iOS containers 13:41:42 JJ: Apple does this in the navigation bar. But still not sure if you can jump via shortcuts from container to container 13:42:18 @JJ: In the discussion column: The Section 508 standards for software list as an exception. However can still be done and could be merit in doing so. 13:42:20 CC: We usually have tab bar navigations with 4-5 tabs for native and hamburger menus on mobile web. I don't think a bypass block is needed in those cases. 13:42:58 JJ: In native there is not much buttons in a navigation bar, and less tabs in a tab bar - less need to skip content. 13:43:08 ack Jamers 13:44:16 q+ 13:44:21 Jamers: I'm looking at the WCAG content and it says "Small repeated sections such as individual words, phrases or single links are not considered blocks for the purposes of this provision." 13:45:07 https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/quickref/?showtechniques=241#bypass-blocks 13:46:15 Jamers: Native apps versus native screens conversations needs to happen. 13:47:40 set of native apps vs set of native app screens 13:48:13 ack Joe_Humbert 13:49:28 Joe_Humbert: In the success criteria they have sufficient techniques that reference landmarks and headings. 13:49:54 JJ: Landmarks would be similar to containers 13:51:50 JJ: Frame techniques and hamburger menus would also apply to mobile web. 13:53:37 Jamers: Why are we not considering sets of native screens in the same way as web pages on a website? 13:54:17 JJ: I'm not sure either. We can get this as a topic for the next meetings. 13:54:56 Joe_Humbert has joined #matf 13:56:08 a+ 13:56:09 q+ 13:56:14 ack AlainVagner 13:57:10 AlainVagner: For me this has strong impact on Multiple Ways. Multiple ways on a set of screens I get, but not so much a set of apps. So this could effect many criteria. 13:57:27 JJ: It will effect at least 4 success criteria. 13:57:54 JJ: Next meeting in 3 weeks 13:58:21 I will miss the first 2 weeks in June, but I will work on stuff offline 13:59:08 JJ: Nice to get feedback on GitHub and how we should use it. Will explore with more working groups on how they use it. 13:59:17 audrey has left #matf 13:59:46 Zakim, list participants 13:59:46 As of this point the attendees have been JJ, RacheleD, Carol, AA, julianmka, Joe_Humbert, Mick, Devanshu, quintinb, Carolina, Karla, present, hdv, Double_a, audrey, Jamers 14:00:29 rrsagent, make minutes 14:00:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-matf-minutes.html JJ 14:37:41 Zakim, this is MATF 15 May 2024 14:37:41 got it, JJ 14:37:46 rrsagent, make minutes 14:37:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-matf-minutes.html JJ