IRC log of json-ld on 2024-05-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:53:11 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #json-ld
15:53:15 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-json-ld-irc
15:53:15 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:53:16 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), gkellogg
15:53:19 [gkellogg]
meeting: JSON-LD CG
15:53:35 [gkellogg]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/398465c7-3787-40df-856a-434a438d9f05/20240515T120000/
15:53:35 [agendabot]
clear agenda
15:53:35 [agendabot]
agenda+ Announcements and Introductions
15:53:35 [agendabot]
agenda+ YAML-LD
15:53:35 [agendabot]
agenda+ CBOR-LD
15:53:35 [agendabot]
agenda+ JSON-LD Issue Discussion
15:53:37 [agendabot]
agenda+ Open Discussion
15:53:40 [agendabot]
agenda+ Next call
15:53:51 [gkellogg]
chair: gkellogg
15:53:54 [gkellogg]
present+
15:53:59 [gkellogg]
scribe+
15:56:10 [anatoly-scherbakov]
anatoly-scherbakov has joined #json-ld
15:59:31 [gkellogg]
zakim, next agendum
15:59:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Announcements and Introductions -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:00:02 [TallTed]
present+
16:00:04 [anatoly-scherbakov]
present+
16:00:40 [pchampin]
present+
16:01:00 [gkellogg]
zakim, pointer
16:01:00 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'pointer', gkellogg
16:01:06 [gkellogg]
rrsagent, pointer
16:01:06 [RRSAgent]
See https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-json-ld-irc#T16-01-06
16:01:35 [pchampin]
q+
16:01:39 [gkellogg]
ack pchampin
16:02:03 [gkellogg]
pchampin: Not sure if we've made a decision for TPAC, but we need to do so.
16:02:09 [bigbluehat]
present+
16:02:21 [dlehn]
present+
16:02:23 [gkellogg]
... I'd also like to report on the new GH Project.
16:02:47 [bigbluehat]
q+
16:02:53 [gkellogg]
ack bigbluehat
16:03:01 [niklasl]
niklasl has joined #json-ld
16:03:43 [niklasl]
present+
16:03:44 [gkellogg]
bigbluehat: Can we take a call of people expecting to be at TPAC?
16:03:49 [gkellogg]
... I'll be there in person.
16:03:58 [gkellogg]
gkellogg: I'll be at TPAC
16:04:06 [gkellogg]
pchampin: me too.
16:04:11 [pchampin]
https://www.w3.org/events/tpac/2024/
16:04:20 [TallTed]
online, most probably
16:04:42 [bigbluehat]
q+
16:04:51 [gkellogg]
gkellogg: how much time do we need?
16:04:56 [niklasl]
niklasl has joined #json-ld
16:05:04 [niklasl]
Unsure if I can be there in person, hope to be able to attend online.
16:05:04 [gkellogg]
bigbluehat: Time will be relative to groups with other commitments.
16:05:15 [pchampin]
23-27 September 2024, Anaheim, CA, USA
16:05:45 [gkellogg]
bigbluehat: Can't conflict with VC.
16:06:22 [gkellogg]
gkellogg: not RDF-star and convenient for WoT.
16:06:39 [bigbluehat]
+1 to hafl-day meeting
16:06:42 [gkellogg]
... suggest 1/2 day slot consistent with the other groups.
16:06:51 [gkellogg]
zakim, next item.
16:06:51 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, gkellogg
16:06:54 [gkellogg]
q?
16:06:59 [gkellogg]
ack bigbluehat
16:07:01 [bigbluehat]
q-
16:07:05 [gkellogg]
zakim, next item
16:07:05 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- YAML-LD -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:07:37 [pchampin]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TPAC2024
16:07:39 [gkellogg]
pchampin: bigbluehat will you respond to the link?
16:08:03 [gkellogg]
bigbluehat: Yes, I'll respond.
16:08:28 [bigbluehat]
q+
16:08:34 [gkellogg]
pchampin: VC asked for Thursday and Friday all day. RDF-star for Tuesday and Thursday mornings.
16:08:40 [gkellogg]
ack bigbluehat
16:09:16 [gkellogg]
s/Thursday and Friday all day/Thursday and Friday morning/
16:09:52 [gkellogg]
gkellogg: we should ask for Thursday afternoon.
16:10:11 [TallTed]
I'm in RDF-star and VC, so already double booked Thursday morning
16:11:02 [gkellogg]
bigbluehat: It's broken into two-hour chunks. We can ask for 2-6.
16:11:34 [gkellogg]
pchampin: There are other questions related to mask policies.
16:12:07 [bigbluehat]
q+
16:12:07 [gkellogg]
... Do people feel strongly about masks?
16:12:12 [gkellogg]
ack bigbluehat
16:12:29 [gkellogg]
bigbluehat: It's really a survey question about making policy.
16:12:35 [gkellogg]
q?
16:13:13 [gkellogg]
anatoly-scherbakov: It's been a while since I've had a YAML-LD update.
16:13:33 [gkellogg]
... We've removed the "extendedYAML" flag and now use "processingMode".
16:13:41 [gkellogg]
... Also, JSON-LD 1.0 is not supported.
16:14:14 [gkellogg]
... We've improved handling of script tags including "extractAllScripts", which also handles individual YAML documents within a YAML stream.
16:14:38 [gkellogg]
... I've created testing issues for YAML-LD features such as flatten, and so forth.
16:14:54 [gkellogg]
... I think most tests are for expansion and conversion to RDF.
16:14:57 [gkellogg]
q+
16:15:13 [gkellogg]
... My implementation is a work in progress.
16:15:39 [gkellogg]
... There is a question about the return-type for YAML-LD functions; what should expand return.
16:16:22 [gkellogg]
... It seems it should return a string serialization, but we have an agreement that this is not very practical. Returning a Dict is more practical.
16:16:56 [gkellogg]
... We might file an issue against JSON-LD API to explicitly allow this.
16:17:09 [gkellogg]
ack gkellogg
16:19:15 [anatoly-scherbakov]
gkellogg: Covering JSON-LD algorithms with tests specifically for YAML-LD might be repetitive, as JSON-LD already tests those.
16:19:16 [anatoly-scherbakov]
q+
16:19:20 [niklasl]
+1
16:19:22 [dlehn]
q+
16:19:24 [gkellogg]
ack anatoly-scherbakov
16:19:37 [gkellogg]
anatoly-scherbakov: Agreed that we shouldn't duplicate all JSON-LD tests.
16:19:58 [gkellogg]
... My implementation runs both, as YAML is a superset of JSON so I can run all the JSON tests, too.
16:20:33 [gkellogg]
... But, there are some corner-cases which which aren't properly tested.
16:20:41 [gkellogg]
... We should test such cases.
16:22:00 [gkellogg]
anatoly-scherbakov: Can we use a flag for returning internal representations vs strings to the API?
16:22:04 [dlehn]
output format related issue: https://github.com/json-ld/yaml-ld/issues/143
16:22:05 [gb]
https://github.com/json-ld/yaml-ld/issues/143 -> Issue 143 Should output type of `expand()` be `dict` or `str`? (by anatoly-scherbakov)
16:22:46 [anatoly-scherbakov]
gkellogg: output values of JSON-LD, YAML-LD, CBOR-LD would then be identical.
16:22:50 [gkellogg]
q?
16:22:57 [gkellogg]
ack dlehn
16:23:23 [gkellogg]
dlehn: This would be the same for different formats, when there are differences in how you serialize.
16:24:01 [gkellogg]
... In some cases, it's obvious, but if there are special YAML or CBOR serializations used, I'm not sure how that would be described.
16:26:10 [anatoly-scherbakov]
q+
16:26:31 [gkellogg]
dlehn: Do any of the API methods describe serialization?
16:26:55 [pchampin]
q+
16:27:09 [gkellogg]
ack anatoly-scherbakov
16:27:39 [gkellogg]
anatoly-scherbakov: I think having the behavior controlled by a flag would be confusing.
16:27:50 [gkellogg]
... It's difficult to describe in a type system.
16:28:28 [gkellogg]
... We might want separate functions for native vs serialized representations.
16:28:35 [gkellogg]
ack pchampin
16:28:52 [pchampin]
https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11-api/#webidl-33206037
16:29:42 [gkellogg]
pchampin: I find this confusing, as when I look at the WebIDL, it describes that the result is serialized.
16:32:11 [dlehn]
q+
16:32:13 [gkellogg]
gkellogg: I think serialization is the ultimate step, which may be skipped.
16:32:16 [gkellogg]
ack dlehn
16:32:41 [gkellogg]
dlehn: Do we need to be explicit about that?
16:32:44 [pchampin]
static Promise<JsonLdRecord> compact( ... )
16:33:17 [pchampin]
typedef record<USVString, any> JsonLdRecord;
16:33:25 [pchampin]
does not look like a serialized string to me!
16:34:04 [anatoly-scherbakov]
What we add a new function to JSON-LD API? static UVString serialize(input: JsonLDRecord, format: UVString)
16:34:16 [gkellogg]
... In our JS code, we have explicit format flags.
16:34:20 [anatoly-scherbakov]
q+
16:34:43 [pchampin]
q+
16:35:08 [anatoly-scherbakov]
...on par with JSonLdRecord parse(serialized_input: UVString, format: UVString)
16:35:46 [gkellogg]
q?
16:35:49 [gkellogg]
ack anatoly-scherbakov
16:36:22 [gkellogg]
anatoly-scherbakov: I agree with using format names when describing how to serialize, but I suggest two different functions, parse and serialize.
16:36:44 [gkellogg]
... Thus, you expand a document and explicitly serialize.
16:37:04 [gkellogg]
... This makes the API clear.
16:39:55 [anatoly-scherbakov]
q+
16:39:55 [gkellogg]
q?
16:39:58 [gkellogg]
ack pchampin
16:40:49 [gkellogg]
pchampin: I think there's some inconsistency in the JSON-LD API spec. The result is a Promise of a JsonLdRecord which is a map, not a string.
16:41:21 [gkellogg]
... If anything, it should say to turn the internal representation into a JsonLdRecord.
16:41:32 [niklasl]
+1 something is inconsistent (but the API IDL is informative...)
16:41:45 [niklasl]
(non-normative)
16:41:50 [gkellogg]
... Currently, the IR is mapped on JSON, so the serialization is standard JSON.
16:42:34 [gkellogg]
... I'd be happy if the API says to return the IR.
16:43:02 [gkellogg]
... The expectation is that if it's an HTTP interface, the result needs to be serialized.
16:43:34 [gkellogg]
... We should try not to over-specify this. Its up to implementers to decide best encoding.
16:44:25 [gkellogg]
gkellogg: PR and/or issue against JSON-LD API welcome.
16:44:27 [gkellogg]
q?
16:44:31 [gkellogg]
ack anatoly-scherbakov
16:45:16 [gkellogg]
anatoly-scherbakov: I agree that specifying the details of serialization is out of scope, but I would propose that we describe serialization and deserialization functions.
16:45:47 [gkellogg]
... I don't think we need to specify this in detail, just that they exist.
16:46:36 [gkellogg]
... We're focusing on the YAML-LD basic profile, but we do have non-normative sections describing extended forms.
16:46:53 [gkellogg]
... If we have a serialize function, we might add a note there.
16:47:29 [anatoly-scherbakov]
I will look into preparing a PR for the spec, and see what everyone thinks.
16:47:30 [gkellogg]
zakim, open item 3
16:47:30 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- CBOR-LD -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:47:34 [gkellogg]
zakim, open item 4
16:47:34 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- JSON-LD Issue Discussion -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:48:16 [pchampin]
https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/4
16:48:23 [gkellogg]
pchampin: I had an action for creating a new project that is automatically updated.
16:48:46 [gkellogg]
... The original project is "old style", and the actions only work with "new style" projects.
16:48:52 [pchampin]
https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/84
16:49:22 [gkellogg]
... I suggest we close the old one and continue with the new one.
16:49:54 [gkellogg]
PROPOSAL: close the old project in favor of the new.
16:49:58 [TallTed]
+1
16:49:58 [anatoly-scherbakov]
+1
16:49:58 [gkellogg]
+1
16:49:58 [bigbluehat]
+1
16:49:59 [pchampin]
+1
16:49:59 [niklasl]
+1
16:50:06 [dlehn]
+1
16:50:08 [gkellogg]
RESOLVED: close the old project in favor of the new.
16:51:36 [gkellogg]
pchampin: Do we want to merge CG and WG issues together?
16:51:36 [bigbluehat]
q+
16:51:42 [gkellogg]
ack bigbluehat
16:52:11 [gkellogg]
pchampin: It should work with the json-ld organization
16:53:00 [gkellogg]
gkellogg: maybe we can apply some labels to the CG repositories.
16:53:16 [bigbluehat]
q-
16:53:20 [gkellogg]
subtopic: website
16:53:38 [gkellogg]
dlehn: I haven't quite had time to finish, but the new site mostly works.
16:54:13 [gkellogg]
... Depends on where we want to host it, and we have a lot of .htaccess files floating around.
16:54:29 [anatoly-scherbakov]
q+
16:54:31 [gkellogg]
... We'll have to write some custom workers for things like content negotiation.
16:56:14 [gkellogg]
gkellogg: playground should used cached version of the schema.org context.
16:56:26 [gkellogg]
dlehn: Next steps are to include such features.
16:56:51 [gkellogg]
... Not sure how to best update the playground, may be an NPM package.
16:57:01 [gkellogg]
q?
16:57:29 [gkellogg]
ack anatoly-scherbakov
16:57:43 [gkellogg]
anatoly-scherbakov Pointer to the repo?
16:58:15 [gkellogg]
https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/pull/836
16:58:16 [gb]
https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/pull/836 -> Pull Request 836 Convert to Eleventy. (by davidlehn) [website]
16:59:03 [gkellogg]
gkellogg: next meeting in two weeks.
16:59:08 [gkellogg]
zakim, end meeting
16:59:08 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been gkellogg, TallTed, anatoly-scherbakov, pchampin, bigbluehat, dlehn, niklasl
16:59:10 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:59:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-json-ld-minutes.html Zakim
16:59:18 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, gkellogg; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
16:59:18 [Zakim]
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16:59:27 [gkellogg]
rrsagent, pointer
16:59:27 [RRSAgent]
See https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-json-ld-irc#T16-59-27
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