14:02:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #adapt
14:02:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-irc
14:02:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:02:53 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
14:03:05 <janina> Meeting: Adapt Teleconference
14:03:11 <janina> Date: 14 May 2024
14:04:02 <janina> present+
14:04:03 <matatk> present+
14:04:04 <Abhinav> present+
14:04:08 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:04:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:04:16 <janina> topic: WKD
14:04:32 <janina> scribe+
14:04:44 <janina> matatk: Little to report just now ...
14:05:05 <janina> matatk: Suggests a quick read of last meeting (with COGA) to consider followups
14:05:27 <janina> matatk: Have not yet had opportunity to followup with the AC meeting person who expressed WKD concern
14:08:49 <Russell> Russell has joined #adapt
14:08:52 <Russell> present+
14:10:37 <matatk> scribe+
14:11:16 <matatk> Abhinav: Happy with presentation; no specific questions for COGA.
14:12:19 <matatk> janina: I think they were saying that it was not critical for WKDs to be discoverable from the current page only, rather than site-wide, particularly if the toolbar icon is badged. Though some top-level WKDs are important, like help. What does everyone think?
14:13:15 <janina> Abhinav: Want to understand who's our target user?
14:13:46 <janina> Abhinav: By definition tWK are site wide
14:14:37 <janina> matatk: Believe it's machine to machine; so user agent can present appropriate to user -- in a form the user prefers
14:14:56 <janina> matatk: Yes, the ietf wk are site wide, but we're looking at how to help people navigate
14:15:26 <janina> matatk: we believe the ietf is useful, but we might take another approach, e.g. rhel with added values
14:15:52 <janina> matatk: that would be discovered from current page
14:16:47 <janina> matatk: We wanted COGA to understand how important site wide is to them
14:16:58 <janina> matatk: Don't believe we have a clear answer from them
14:19:27 <janina> Abhinav: expresses concern about maintaining rhel
14:19:32 <janina> matatk: yes
14:19:53 <janina> matatk: Don't believe we're saying we want to switch to rhel now
14:20:22 <janina> matatk: But, yes. Browser would need to parse; and site would need to maintain
14:20:53 <janina> matatk: Most people I've discussed with have had concerns about IETF; but seem sanguine about maintaining page content
14:21:27 <janina> matatk: Concerned that using both approaches might confuse users
14:22:19 <janina> matatk: A bit difficult to understand now, but we need to explore a bit more; would people understand this isn't a complete list for the site?
14:23:07 <matatk> janina: I've been using 'IETF' for well-known URLs (side-wide) and 'rel' for in-page.
14:23:24 <matatk> janina: I'm not sure the user should know/care whether the approach underneath is IETF or rel
14:23:32 <matatk> q+
14:24:07 <janina> Abhinav: So machine to machine, but some kind of option to provide visibility to the user? Any problem with that?
14:25:10 <janina> matatk: Problem with user not caring which approach agree from the underlying tech
14:25:33 <janina> matatk: Problem, if we use both and user has no way of knowing and the list will be different on different pages
14:28:25 <janina> matatk: matatk: Will ask whether IETF folks might be amenable to a small feature upgrade, i.e. a directory
14:29:34 <matatk> s/but some kind of option to provide/I proposed a syntax to provide/
14:29:38 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:29:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:30:26 <matatk> Abhinav: My understanding is that the content served at the well-known URLs is up to us, so we have flexibility on that.
14:30:41 <matatk> matatk: ACK; let's check the spec.
14:31:09 <janina> matatk: ack to Abhinav
14:33:31 <janina> Abhinav: concerned we may get a more complex set; better look if we massage appropriately
14:34:42 <matatk> topic: Synbols (issue 240)
14:35:04 <matatk> subtopic: News from COGA
14:35:13 <matatk> janina: E A Draffan was on the call yesterday and we got into symbols.
14:35:20 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:35:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:35:50 <matatk> janina: I tested the theory as to whether the Unicode approach would be adequate. We had to separate out the concepts of user agent and authoring content.
14:36:18 <matatk> janina: The UAs want the simplest way to display what they're going to display without having to read another registry of data values. That was resolved quickly.
14:36:28 <matatk> janina: The concern that was expressed was on the authoring side.
14:38:19 <matatk> janina: E A wasn't convinced that any non-expert could author the content. I said that's probably right - you can't rely on a computer tool to do perfect translations. If you're doing this on a word-by-word basis I agree. But asked what about chapter titles in videos? Is there reasonable expectation that it would deliver benefits to people there
14:38:19 <matatk> then it's worth doing. Note our remit came from COGA.
14:38:39 <matatk> janina: Also we are focusing on specific use cases like chapter titles, procedural content, etc.
14:39:04 <matatk> janina: That was pretty-much signed off on - I thought I should send some links, like to issue 240 - any others?
14:41:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #Adapt
14:41:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:42:21 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:42:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:42:34 <matatk> matatk: Is 240 the best issue - could lead down technical rabbit hole - especially if use case already validated?
14:42:45 <matatk> janina: Maybe we should invite E A to this call?
14:43:08 <janina> matatk: Notes we're currently unable to hear Russell
14:43:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
14:43:25 <janina> matatk: Good idea is set up a conversation -- invite to a call?
14:43:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: (Noting that Russel's audio is not working, cannot hear him.)
14:44:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: We need very specific questions for EA
14:44:03 <janina> janina: lionel: Russell has no mic at the moment
14:45:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> s/UAs/User Agents
14:45:21 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:45:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:46:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: What was significant to the discussion yesterday is that we are not trying to write a symbol above every word, that is not what we are building
14:46:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... they mentioned an issue paper that they could not locate.
14:47:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: We should put on the agenda, this follow-up with EA
14:49:16 <Abhinav> 1) RFC 8615 on Well-Known URIs can be found at https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/pdfrfc/rfc8615.txt.pdf
14:49:17 <Abhinav> 2) Section 3 gives good details
14:49:17 <Abhinav> 3) There is paragraph:
14:49:17 <Abhinav> "Note that this specification defines neither how to determine the
14:49:18 <Abhinav>  hostname to use to find the well-known URI for a particular
14:49:18 <Abhinav>  application, **nor the scope of the metadata discovered by
14:49:18 <Abhinav>  dereferencing the well-known URI**; both should be defined by the
14:49:19 <Abhinav>  application itself."
14:49:19 <Abhinav> 4) Apologies for commenting between different discussion....
14:51:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:53:35 <matatk> Thanks Abhinav, re the WK info
14:53:41 <matatk> Here is my mock-up for 240: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-adapt/2024May/0006.html
15:09:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
15:09:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:10:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, end meeting
15:10:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, matatk, Abhinav, Russell, Lionel_Wolberger
15:10:03 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:10:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Zakim
15:10:09 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:10:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #adapt