Meeting minutes
[new] css-aam (via aria #2155)
spectranaut: this is for a later time
james: css issues have come up again and again. Editors would be the right place to start this discussion.
… to start, who will work on it.
scotto: talking to aaron about it. he suggested html-aam to expand.
… not ideal maybe but most of all I would need someone to help out with this.
jnurthen: any particular idea?
scotto: not immediately.
… it should probably be an implemter
james: maybe raheem?
scotto: that could work.
james: let's think about it
[continue] monorepo hackathon
pkra: is there anything we need to do to prepare?
… maybe from w3c side?
daniel: there's precedence in the epub space.
… I'm looking into the actions.
… can't really touch TR but we could try an editors draft of a spec we feel comfortable with
… echidna would be a space to use.
… I'm thinking getting one spec that publishes often as a first step
spectranaut: not sure we will know the scope of work until we get started.
… maybe it's just a lack knowledge about the publishing process since Daniel is on top of that.
daniel: when we have the repo structure we're comfortable with, publish to github, that's a good basis. The w3c side can come later.
… the other stuff worries me more, e.g., integrating aria-common.
pkra: great. I just want to avoid sitting there next week and being blocked for a long time.
daniel: maybe we start with a branch on Monday.
pkra: sounds good to me.
… focusing on github publication, focus on initial specs, then moving along
[continue] review stale github issues (aria #2151)
pkra: aside, https://
james: will meet with spectranaut to start a bit.
… let's do a few issues
pkra: #79 - cell/gridcell
scotto: implementations seem to be fine now.
… it's now more about author guidelines to decide on allowed attributes.
… we also need to do the same for row; there's even a note.
james: what problems do we solve if we do this?
… does it make things better?
scott: maybe it's worth documenting what user agents do, that they're mostly interchangable.
… more of a clarification, keep both.
… if someone wants to deprecate them, let them do the work.
pkra: aria #80. presentation vs none
james: close it.
pkra: #283 aria-sort on more than 1 column
… pinged Adrian if he is interested in taking this on (from Stefan)
pkra: #322 new page load
scotto: Melanie might be interested.
… the new history API was partially about this.
james: this seems like a really useful thing to have.
… if it just works on history, that would be less of a chance of developer screwing it up.
<scotto> WICG/
pkra: pinged Mel Sumner
… aria #427 radio groups name required
scotto: would like to talk about this again
… people from ACT rules are confused on aria vs wcag failure.
… this, dialog, tables came up.
… they are aria failures but wcag is less clear.
… then why is aria requiring them when wcag / html doesn't. etc.
… I think it would help if they're not MUST but SHOULD
james: what benefits are there for users when not adding a name?
scotto: I've seen it when buttons are very understandable, e.g., clear mailing list sign-up.
… heading just before table.
… dialog - best practices to have name the same as heading at start.
… why force the extra work
james: the name-from heading would solve that at least.
… then browser/AT can decide when to reduce the reduncancy.
spectranaut: sounds like a larger problem where some things should have SHOULD not MUST.
… should we broaden this?
james: while I sympathize, I think it could make things worse when people don't do it for situations where they really should name them
scotto: I had similarly thoughts but ended up thinking that HTML and ARIA are too strong. Where it really matters, WCAG will cover it.
… I've moved away from this in ARIA-in-html because it creates too much confusion
… a good auditor would call them out; but ARIA feels like overreaching
… then there's ARIA asking for more than HTML
spectranaut: can we talk more on the group?
… let's make it a larger issue.
scotto: let's close it and make a new, larger isse.
james: sounds good.
… I'm feeling more sympathetic to this after checking APG
pkra: aria #432 4-way picker
… I like this. Would love a label for these kinds of issues -- there's interest but not enough from implementers.
spectranaut: sounds good
james: feature + needs explainer sounds like a good combo
spectranaut: maybe "needs champion"?
… and explainer for that.
pkra: i like that. We have others that have less interest, e.g., #559 on "call to action"
spectranaut: let's close that.
james: +1
pkra: done.
spectranaut: we should track what we've discussed so we don't re-do issues.
… I'll add a "needs champion" label